The size of New Jerusalem

[Uriah]

On 5/9/2022 at 2:46 PM, Retrobyter said:

1st heavens were before the Flood
Then, the Flood occurred
2nd heavens which are now, are scheduled to go through the Fire
Then, the Fire will occur, right before the Great White Throne Judgment (See Revelation 20:8.)
3rd heavens will come after the Fire "wherein dwelleth righteousness."

Most people's take that I've heard on this are:

1st- The sky/atmosphere, ie. "the fowls of heaven"

2nd- Beyond the sky, ie. "the stars of heaven"

3- behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee

On 5/7/2022 at 11:00 PM, Retrobyter said:

Why would there be gates, each one made of one pearl, if they always stand open as long as it's not night, and there's no night there because the Sun of Righteousness has arisen? What good are they? Gates that never close and always stand open?

Believe the scriptures.

Aldo, those who bring the glory and honor "into it"  also (m- text)  reads, "unto Him." 

And those doing so are identified as those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life. So this a picture of the initial entry of believers after being before the White Throne at the beginning of the 1,000 yrs.

[Retrobyter]

On 5/8/2022 at 3:02 PM, Spiros said:

Hello Retrobyter,

 

In computers people are trained to use number systems like the decadic, the binary, the hexadecimal, and the octal. They thus use numbers 10, 2, 16, 8. But they usually don’t use the 12 number system. But New Jerusalem being 12,000 stadiums in size is based on  the 12 number system. Therefore what does one notice when using the 12 number system?

Shalom, Spiros.

You don't know me, but I've always been first a mathematician. Working computers was just a way to use my math skills. 

The base-12 numbering system is no different than any other numbering system:

Just as the columns in decimal are 10^0, 10^1, 10^2, etc., the columns in binary are 2^0, 2^1, 2^2, etc., the columns in octal, are 8^0, 8^1, 8^2, etc., and the columns in hexadecimal are 16^0, 16^1, 16^2, etc., so the columns in dodecimal are 12^0, 12^1, 12^2, etc. and the digits would be 0-9, A, and B. I suppose that if we all were born with six fingers on each hand, we might have developed into a people that used the dodecimal system regularly, but we only have five on each hand, making a base-10 or decimal system feel natural.

So, you'd have a 1's column, a 12's column, a 144's column, etc. So what? What does that prove?

Binary was selected for computers because switches can be in an off or on position, representing a 0 or a 1. Consequently, the transistors that first made computers possible could be represented quickly as a number. (Actually, transistors have three states, a 0 state, a 1 state, and a hi-impedence state, taking it out of the equation.) 

First, octal was developed to show the states of 3 transistors at a time. 

000 = 0
001 = 1
010 = 2
011 = 3
100 = 4
101 = 5
110 = 6
111 = 7

They did the same thing for 4 transistors at a time, and added 8 and 9 and "digits" A-F to represent 10-15.

0000 = 0    1000 = 8
0001 = 1     1001 = 9
0010 = 2     1010 = A
0011 = 3      1011 = B
0100 = 4     1100 = C
0101 = 5      1101 = D
0110 = 6      1110 = E
0111 = 7       1111 = F

Thus, octal and hexadecimal were used to show the same thing as binary with fewer digits.

On 5/8/2022 at 3:02 PM, Spiros said:

The 6,5,2 digits relate to both Jerusalem(9,2,6) and Nazareth(4,6,4). This way it refers to the whole life of Jesus starting from  the Annunciation to the Blessed Virgin Mary at Nazareth and ending at the Crucifixion, Resurrection, and Ascension of Jesus Christ at Jerusalem.

Did you know that the word "Blessed" is related to "bliss?" It simply means "happy!" And, a virgin is simply an individual who has not had sexual intercourse. After Miryam ("Mary") was married to Yosef ("Joseph") and had her first son, Yeshua` ("Jesus"), she had other children as Yosef's wife! She was NO LONGER a virgin! An annunciation is just another way to say an "announcement."

No, these digits do nothing for the prophecy of the New Jerusalem. The stages of the "whole life of Jesus" are not necessary to repeat, to represent, nor to commemorate. His life goes ON! He will Return! He will rescue His people! He will reclaim His Land! He will reign over the house of Ya`aqoV! He will reign over the earth as the King of kings - the World Emperor! And, He shall do so with a finesse, and a commanding presence that will do wonders for the morale of His saints! He shall submit to His Father's rule, and will continue to reign over the house of Israel forever!

On 5/8/2022 at 3:02 PM, Spiros said:

In Revelation, the size of New Jerusalem in Palestine as 12,000 stadions is defined. So if New Jerusalem is in Greece(Hellas), what is it’s size? Isopsephy relates this number to the King of the Jews and The Second Coming.

ΔΕΥΤΕΡΑ ΠΑΡΟΥΣΙΑ(Deutera Parousia: Second Coming)  = (4+5+400+300+5+100+1)+(80+1+100+70+400+200+10+1) = 1677

ΔΕΚΑ ΕΠΤΑ ΧΙΛΙΑΔΕΣ ΔΙΑΚΟΣΙΑ ΕΝΔΕΚΑ (Deca Epta Hiliades Diakosia Endeka: seventeen thousand two hundred and eleven) = (4+5+20+1) + (5+80+300+1) + (600+10+30+10+1+4+5+200) + (4+10+1+20+70+200+10+1) + (5+50+4+5+20+1) = 1677

ΒΑΣΙΛΕΥΣ ΙΟΥΔΑΙΩΝ(Basileus Ioudaion: King of the Jews) = (2+1+200+10+30+5+400+200) + (10+70+400+4+1+10+800+50) = 2193

ΔΕΚΑ ΕΠΤΑ ΧΙΛΙΑΔΕΣ ΔΙΑΚΟΣΙΑ ΕΝΔΕΚΑ ΣΤΑΔΙΑ(Deca Epta Hiliades Diakosia Endeka Stadia: seventeen thousand two hundred and eleven furlongs) = (4+5+20+1) + (5+80+300+1) + (600+10+30+10+1+4+5+200) + (4+10+1+20+70+200+10+1) + (5+50+4+5+20+1) + (200+300+1+4+10+1) = 2193

Tell me this: Why should Greek take a higher precedence than His mother tongue, Hebrew? Why should He be so enthralled with Greece (Hellas) when His HOMELAND is the Land of Israel?! The prophecies teach that He shall TAKE BACK His Land and reign over it as His own! While the most ancient texts we now have are in Greek, it is most probable that the New Testament books were originally written in Hebrew or at least its cousin-language of Aramaic!

On 5/8/2022 at 3:02 PM, Spiros said:

This is the size of the “New” New Jerusalem cube in Greece.  A square with a side length of 17,211 units has a half diagonal of roughly 12,170 units.

New Nazareth = 12,693 stadions (Annunciation)

New Jerusalem = 12,000 stadions (Resurrection, Ascension, Pentecost)

New Bethlehem = 11,945 stadions (Christmas)

New Bethabara = 12,042 stadions (Theophany)

======================================

Average = 12,170 stadions

Best Regards

Spiros

I'm sorry, but there's just NO evidence for a "New Nazareth," a "New Bethlehem," or a "New Bethabara!"

[Retrobyter]

11 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Most people's take that I've heard on this are:

1st- The sky/atmosphere, ie. "the fowls of heaven" (going up!)

2nd- Beyond the sky, ie. "the stars of heaven" (going up!)

3rd- behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee

Shalom, Uriah.

I know, but that's what I'm trying to tell you! This is a SPATIAL view of the three "heavens"! It's better (IMO) to take PETER'S view (instead of that in C. I. Scofield's view) found in 2 Peter 3:3-13! Not a SPATIAL view, but a CHRONOLOGICAL view!

1st - The sky/atmosphere before the FLOOD (time passes!)

2nd - The sky/atmosphere after the FLOOD and before the FIRE (time passes!)

3rd - The sky/atmosphere after the FIRE

That is,

{1st sky} | FLOOD | {2nd sky} | FIRE | {3rd sky}
                                               ^
                                                |
(We are currently here-----+ )

See, in all three cases within the prophecy of Peter, the word used is "ouranoi," the plural of "ouranos," referring to the "sky"; the "skies," just as Yeshua` used the word in Matthew 16:1-4! There's no use of "epouranios," "above the sky,"  found in either 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 or in 2 Peter 3:3-13, even though Paul had already used the word in 1 Corinthians 15:39-41! If the 2nd heaven had meant "beyond the sky, i.e. 'the stars of heaven,'" then he could have used "epouranios" here in 2 Corinthians 12! But, HE DID NOT!

11 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Believe the scriptures.

Also, those who bring the glory and honor "into it"  also (m- text)  reads, "unto Him." 

And those doing so are identified as those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life. So this a picture of the initial entry of believers after being before the White Throne at the beginning of the 1,000 yrs.

No, not in Revelation 21:24 or 26! These verses FOLLOW Revelation 21:1, the introduction to the New Earth, which in turn FOLLOWS Revelation 20:11-15, the Great White Throne Judgment, which in turn FOLLOWS Revelation 20:7-10, the release of haSatan and the resulting insurrection, which in turn FOLLOWS Revelation 20:1-6, the Millennium, the 1,000 years!

(I thought you already knew that!)

[Uriah]

21 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

No, not in Revelation 21:24 or 26! These verses FOLLOW Revelation 21:1, the introduction to the New Earth, which in turn FOLLOWS Revelation 20:11-15, the Great White Throne Judgment, which in turn FOLLOWS Revelation 20:7-10, the release of haSatan and the resulting insurrection, which in turn FOLLOWS Revelation 20:1-6, the Millennium, the 1,000 years!

This is a fine example of reading in linear mode. It is not strictly linear. Reading it this way leads to people waiting a thousand years to enter the city.

-----------------------------------------------------------------Rev 20:7-10- And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out  of heaven, and devoured them.  And the devil that deceived them was cast into the l lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The above verses are to be read as having PARENTHESES surrounding. The next verse in the chapter has returned to the BEGINNING of the 1,000 yrs.!

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Heb 11:16- But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. 

Matt 25:21- His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Matt 25:23-His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Matt 25:34- Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

John 14:2-In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 

John 14:3- And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Rev 21:2-  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

When Jesus comes we will ENTER the place He has PREPARED for us. The city - New Jerusalem.

 

[Retrobyter]

45 minutes ago, Uriah said:

This is a fine example of reading in linear mode. It is not strictly linear. Reading it this way leads to people waiting a thousand years to enter the city.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Rev 20:7-10- And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out  of heaven, and devoured them.  And the devil that deceived them was cast into the l lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The above verses are to be read as having PARENTHESES surrounding. The next verse in the chapter has returned to the BEGINNING of the 1,000 yrs.!

---------------------------------------------------------------

Shalom, Uriah.

This is SO ironic! 

I just got finished telling Keras the same thing in a different thread!

Here's what I said (between the sets of 5 stars):

*****
You're misreading Revelation 20:1-6: 

Permit me to list the verses again:

Revelation 20:1-6 (KJV)

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

As is common in Hebrew literature, points are said slightly out of chronological order to address a broader issue. Here in these verses, the main issue is the Resurrection of the Just (or rather, the Justified). The Resurrection to Condemnation doesn't occur until after the Millennium. That's what John was saying here. One must think of 5a as being a flash-forward to the time after the Millennium. The "rest of the dead" are not those who are worthy of the First Resurrection and won't be reigning; the "rest of the dead" refers to the UNJUST! The ones who will be resurrected  to stand trial before the Great White Throne Judgment and from there go into the Lake of Fire and Sulfur (or the Lake of Burning Sulfur).

Verse 6 includes ALL those counted worthy by God as His Justified who will be raised to life to be priests of YHWH God and His Messiah, and shall also reign with the Messiah for the thousand years!

One doesn't have to be one who was beheaded to be in the First Resurrection! One just has to be JUSTIFIED BY GOD! Those who had been beheaded for the witness of Yeshua` and for the Word of God are just ASSURED a place among those who will be reigning with the Messiah. That's all.
*****

I should have also mentioned that John told us about this in His Gospel account, as well:

John 5:19-30 (KJV)

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them,

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For THE FATHER JUDGETH NO MAN, BUT HATH COMMITTED ALL JUDGMENT UNTO THE SON: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

25 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto THE RESURRECTION OF LIFE; and they that have done evil, unto THE RESURRECTION OF DAMNATION.

30 "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

 

See, I KNOW that the Kingdom is for ALL God's people! He's for the children of Israel - His MISHPACHAH - His FAMILY! He's for the ones adopted INTO His family! All of the believers who are His are partakers of His blood! They are all of the tribe of Yhudah! (Unless, of course, they are already members of another Tribe of Israel.)

Therefore, ALL of His people will be resurrected and escorted into His Kingdom BEFORE THE BEGINNING of the MILLENNIUM - the THOUSAND YEARS!

 

45 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Heb 11:16- But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. 

Yes, this is true! It happens after the END of the Millennium as the City comes down to the New Earth!

45 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Matt 25:21- His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Matt 25:23-His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Yes, these verses will occur at the Coming of our Lord Yeshua`, the King of Jews who becomes the King of Israel at the end of the first 3.5 years of His Kingdom! Luke's account is a bit more descriptive:

Luke 19:11-27 (KJV)

11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore,

"A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them,

"'Occupy (Trade) till I come.'

14 "But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying,

"'We will not have this man to reign over us!'

15 "And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying,

"'Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.' 

17 "And he said unto him,

"'Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.'

18 "And the second came, saying,

"'Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.'

19 "And he said likewise to him,

"'Be thou also over five cities.'

20 And another came, saying,

"'Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.'

22 "And he saith unto him,

"'Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury (interest)?'

24 "And he said unto them that stood by,

"'Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds!'

25 "(And they said unto him,

"'Lord, he HATH ten pounds!') 

26 "'For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him! 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me!'"

Yes, this, too, will occur before the beginning of the Millennium.

45 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Matt 25:34- Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Yes! These are verses about the Sheep and the Goat nations! This is the WAR TRIBUNAL that He holds at the beginning of the Millennium! They are the NATIONS that are gathered before Him after He wins the war for His Land, and they are divided as "Sheep" or "Goat" NATIONS based upon how they treated His people, His brothers, His FAMILY! Here are the first few verses of this section of the Olivet Discourse:

Matthew 25:31-34 (KJV)

31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 "Then shall THE KING say unto them on his right hand,

"'Come, ye blessed of my Father, INHERIT THE KINGDOM prepared for you from the foundation of the world:'"

This indeed will happen at the BEGINNING of the Millennium!

 

45 minutes ago, Uriah said:

John 14:2-In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 

John 14:3- And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Rev 21:2-  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

When Jesus comes we will ENTER the place He has PREPARED for us. The city - New Jerusalem.

Ummmm ... no. Here we see TWO events as John portrayed it in Revelation: First, notice that Yeshua` NEVER said that He would take them back with Him to the place He will have prepared for them! All He promised is that, when He comes again, He will receive them to Himself that wherever He is, there they would be, too! But, His Second Coming is BEFORE the BEGINNING of the Millennium!

Revelation 21:1-8 is AFTER the Millennium and AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment. It's also AFTER God re-creates the New Earth and its New Sky! Notice closely, that it is THEN that the place He had prepared for them COMES DOWN TO THE NEW EARTH! We don't go to the city; the city comes to the New Earth!

Revelation 20:7-15; 21:1-8 (KJV)

7 And WHEN THE THOUSAND YEARS ARE EXPIRED, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw A GREAT WHITE THRONE, and him (Yeshua`) that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead WERE JUDGED out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them (THE SECOND RESURRECTION): and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is THE SECOND DEATH. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into THE LAKE OF FIRE.

1 And I saw A NEW HEAVEN (SKY) AND A NEW EARTH: for the first heaven (sky) and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, NEW JERUSALEM, coming down from God out of heaven (out of the sky), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (or out of the throne) saying,

"Behold, THE TABERNACLE (TENT) OF GOD IS WITH MEN, and HE WILL DWELL (WILL TENT) WITH THEM, and they shall be his people, and GOD HIMSELF SHALL BE WITH THEM, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

5 And he that sat upon the throne said,

"Behold, I make all things new!"

And he said unto me,

"Write: for these words are true and faithful!"

6 And he said unto me,

"It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I WILL BE HIS GOD, AND HE SHALL BE MY SON. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is THE SECOND DEATH."

Remember: There were no chapter divisions or even verse divisions when these words were written! The chapters FLOW into each other!

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, @Uriah

Just one more thing (which I decided to put in a different post):

We also have a series of parables that Yeshua` told us about the Kingdom itself, during the 1,000 years! I am speaking about the parables of the Kingdom found in Matthew 13:

I'm only going to list the parable of the wheat and the tares, but all of these parables (with the exception of the first parable) are about that Kingdom time!

Here's what Yeshua` said:

Matthew 13:24-30 (KJV)

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,

"The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him,

"'Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?'

28 "He said unto them,

"'An enemy hath done this!'

"The servants said unto him,

"'Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?'

29 "But he said,

"'Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."'"

He said this to the multitudes on the sea shore, outside of the house where He was staying, Then, we read:

Matthew 13:36-43 (KJV)

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying,

"Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field."

37 He answered and said unto them,

"He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 
38 The field is the world;
the good seed are the children of the kingdom;
but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil;
the harvest is the end of the world (age);
and the reapers are the angels. 

40 "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

Notice that He told His disciples about seven elements of the parable that were like seven other things. Let's take this parable and make the substitutions:

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,

"The kingdom of heaven is likened unto the Son of man which sowed the children of the kingdom in his world: 25 But while men slept, the devil came and sowed children of the wicked one among the children of the kingdom, and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the children of the wicked one also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him,

"'Sir, didst not thou sow the children of the kingdom in thy world? from whence then hath it the children of the wicked one?'

28 "He said unto them,

"'The devil hath done this!'

"The servants said unto him,

"'Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?'

29 "But he said,

"'Nay; lest while ye gather up the children of the wicked one, ye root up also the children of the kingdom with them. 30 Let both grow together until the end of the age: and in the time of the end of the age I will say to the angels, "Gather ye together first the children of the wicked one, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the children of the kingdom into my barn."'"

Then, listen to His explanation:

40 "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (age). 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire (the Lake of Fire): there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in THE KINGDOM OF THEIR FATHER. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

So, at the end of the age, the angels shall gather out of the SON'S KINGDOM all offenders and doers of iniquity and throw them into the Lake of Fire! Then, the righteous (who have been in the Son's Kingdom all along), will "SHINE LIKE THE SUN in the KINGDOM OF THEIR FATHER, YHWH GOD!

Paul's conclusion in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 is...

1 Corinthians 15:28 (KJV)

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him (the Son), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God (the Father) may be all in all.

I sincerely hope that all of this makes sense to you.

 

[Uriah]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

I sincerely hope that all of this makes sense to you.

Well, it makes me understand your point of view. It pretty much shows that we cannot enter New Jerusalem for a thousand years after Jesus returns. This makes promises to the churches look skewed. 

Those who overcome will eat from the tree of life, which is in New Jerusalem, something that comes a thousand years later. Yet they overcame the mark of the beast and are continually able to stand before His throne, not in the city prepared for them and it must be after a thousand years if so. If not the throne in the City, I don' know where. I think you see my point without more examples.

We are looking at it from different perspectives. One might say they are  a thousand years apart, yet in the Lord...we are not.

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

Well, it makes me understand your point of view. It pretty much shows that we cannot enter New Jerusalem for a thousand years after Jesus returns. This makes promises to the churches look skewed. 

Those who overcome will eat from the tree of life, which is in New Jerusalem, something that comes a thousand years later. Yet they overcame the mark of the beast and are continually able to stand before His throne, not in the city prepared for them and it must be after a thousand years if so. If not the throne in the City, I don' know where. I think you see my point without more examples.

We are looking at it from different perspectives. One might say they are  a thousand years apart, yet in the Lord...we are not.

Shalom, Uriah.

Yes, and your response tells me volumes about your point of view, too. You are forgetting the promises first made to the children of Israel! Paul told us,

Romans 11:1-36 (KJV)

1 I say then, "Hath God cast away his people?" God forbid! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin! 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not (Don't you know) what the scripture saith of Elias ("Elijah")? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 

3 "Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left ALONE, and they seek MY life!"

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him?

"I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal."

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

8 (According as it is written,

"God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear"

unto this day!

9 And David saith,

"Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway."

11 I say (ask) then,

"Have they stumbled that they should fall (permanently)?"

God forbid!: but rather through their (temporary) fall salvation (RESCUE) is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them (the children of Israel) to jealousy. 

12 Now if the (temporary) fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; HOW MUCH MORE THEIR FULNESS? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, (I magnify mine office): 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the (temporary) casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, WHAT SHALL THE RECEIVING OF THEM BE, BUT LIFE FROM THE DEAD? 16 For if the firstfruit (the first harvest wave-offering) be holy, the lump (the whole harvest) is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches!

17 And if SOME of the branches be (temporarily) broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree (an oleaster tree), wert graffed in AMONG THEM, and WITH THEM partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not (Don't boast) against the branches! But if thou boast (if you DO boast), thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 

19 Thou wilt say then,

"The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in."

20 Well (Okay,...); because of UNBELIEF they were broken off, and thou standest BY FAITH! Be not highminded (Don't be smug), but FEAR!: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, TAKE HEED (BE CAREFUL) LEST HE ALSO SPARE NOT THEE! 

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God:
on them which (temporarily) fell, severity;
but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise THOU ALSO shalt be cut off! 

23 And THEY (THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL) ALSO, if they abide not still in unbelief, SHALL BE GRAFFED IN: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature (an oleaster tree), and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these (the children of Israel), which be THE NATURAL BRANCHES, be graffed into THEIR OWN olive tree?

25 For I would not, (Gentile) brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be "wise" in your own conceits (smugness); that blindness IN PART is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in!

26 And so ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED: as it is written,

"There shall come out of Sion ("Zion") THE DELIVERER, AND SHALL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, WHEN I SHALL TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS!"

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes:
BUT as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' (the patriarchs') sakes. 

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (I.e., God does not change His mind about His gifts and calling! God does not renege His gifts and calling!) 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 EVEN SO HAVE THESE ALSO NOW NOT BELIEVED, THAT THROUGH YOUR MERCY THEY ALSO MAY OBTAIN MERCY. 32 For God hath concluded them ALL in unbelief, THAT HE MIGHT HAVE MERCY UPON ALL!

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller? 35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. (Truth!)

Remember! God must first fulfill His promises to Israel before He fulfills His promises to the Gentiles! And, we who were first Gentiles SHOULD BE HAPPY about that! For if we can be sure that God will fulfill His promises to Israel, then we can be confident that God will fulfill His promises to us also! Besides, being grafted "contrary to nature" into the Messiah's "Olive Tree," we PARTICIPATE in those promises made to Israel!

[Spiros]

This is what I believe is the New Jerusalem cube encoding of the 7 Churches of Asia. It matches very well. I have also identified 7 corresponding churches in Hellas(Greece). The 7 stars are the 5 planets (wandering stars) known in antiquity plus the Sun and the Moon. The Sun is a star and the Moon is a wandering planet – satellite star.

 

https://i.postimg.cc/BbyRSj9F/7-Churches-Hellas-Asia.jpg

[Spiros]

We compute the isopsephy value of the Greek(at the time of Apostle John) phrase for "the seven churches of Asia":

 

ΑΙ ΕΠΤΑ ΕΚΚΛΗΣΙΑΙ ΤΗΣ ΑΣΙΑΣ   = (1+10) + (5+80+300+1) + (5+20+20+30+8+200+10+1+10) + (300+8+200) + (1+200+10+1+200) = 11 + 386 + 304 + 508 + 412 = 1,621

 

The latitude φ of Karyes, Mount Athos is:

 

φ = 40.25715° 

 

We square this in degrees:

 

40.25715 x 40.25715 = 1,620.638 => 1,621

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karyes,_Mount_Athos