Hey Muslims!!!Do something to help

[dgolvach]

It kinda comes down to this Amor. If your going to put up absolute "moral" high ground as a requirement to defend yourself, your not going to be able to defend yourself at all. You, nor I will ever have absolute "moral" high ground to do anything. Its just a matter of survival. Some of the examples of "Christian" extremism you sited my be valid but it does not remove the reality of what is happening at this time. The Muslim extremists can even make a better arguement for "Christian" extremism than you can. And perhaps in their "mis-guided and false religion -shaped view", they feel they are just. Afterall, you and I have not submitted to Islam and so Allah has commisioned them to remove our heads. Many of them are more than willing to die fulfilling this mandate. They are very motivated. You know...72 hotties in paradise and all that... Why...its enough to make a fellow fly a plane straight into a tall building.

Now what steps do think we here in the land of the infidels should take? Is it really all that constructive to sit around and go on and on about how bad WE are while THEY are planning our demise? OK ...mean Christians and Jews exist...So what?

Dan

[Guest shiloh357]

Well well, I never realised that Quakerism was a branch of Islam, thank you for informing me superjew - I always assumed I was a Christian! As to the violence of Christian extremists, well we had the murder two days ago of Brother Roger of Taize by one, and the Romanian nun crucified by a priest trying to exorcise her last week.

If you want to go more mainstream those two "great Christians" Tony Blair and George Bush, in their "Shock and awe" attack. The mass bombing of Baghdad turned into TV entertainment action.

In recent history remember Waco, Jonestown, The Christian Serb butchers of Srebrinica; the Catholic and Protestant killers of Northern Ireland; including Pastor, preacher of hate, and soon to be "First-Minister" of Northern Ireland, Ian Paisley. The Hutu priests who conived in the murder of their Tutsi congregations in Rwanda;The good Calvinists of the Apartheid regime - with its doctrine of God sanctioned racism; a doctrine shared at least until the 1960's by their lynching protestant brethren in the American South. Oh and all those good European catholics and protestants who did little to save european Jews from the death camps. Or those enthusiatic Russian orthodox pogromists.

In reality, Christians compete quite well with"Muslims" in the barbarism stakes

Does any of this remove the threat being posed by the Jihadists? Should we just ignore the threat and sit on our hands because not everyone in Christianity is peaceful. Thats kinda like saying" Well hmmm...since I am myself a sinner, I should just go a head and let other sinners, who want to do me and my family harm, have their way". Is this what Quakerism actually teaches you?

Dan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Er, no> I was merely pointing out that Christian extremists are as nasty as Muslim extremists. Something that many on here seem to be in denial about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh yeah right... and where has anyone denied that? Could you be more lame? This is so typical from you. We cannot deal with the terrorists simply because there have been some nutjobs who claimed to be Christians as well? That does not in anyway diminish the threat that radical Islam poses for the rest of the world. It needs to sniffed out and destroyed.

[Giaour]

The difference here is that 'Christians" who murder people are going AGAINST the teachings of Christianity and against the Word of God. Hence this makes them very BAD Christians if Christians at all.

Muslims who murder people are following the teachings of their so called holy book and are being obedient to it.

Muslims who do not follow the koran's commandment to "kill the infidels" are actually good people but not obedient to the teachings of islam.

Just fyi, I have read the koran, as well as the Torah and the Bible.

[apothanein kerdos]

Hal hasn't encouraged us to go and blow people up. Extreme Muslims have. This is why the world has a hard time trusting you guys (Muslims) because anytime we try to criticize or get you to criticize the extremist you go, "Yeah but look at your guys". You attempt to throw blame at us. Our fundamentalist and extremist don't blow people up. We have some very fringe people that will, but they're so far seperated from our faith that even legalistic Christians denounce them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well well, I never realised that Quakerism was a branch of Islam, thank you for informing me superjew - I always assumed I was a Christian! As to the violence of Christian extremists, well we had the murder two days ago of Brother Roger of Taize by one, and the Romanian nun crucified by a priest trying to exorcise her last week.

If you want to go more mainstream those two "great Christians" Tony Blair and George Bush, in their "Shock and awe" attack. The mass bombing of Baghdad turned into TV entertainment action.

In recent history remember Waco, Jonestown, The Christian Serb butchers of Srebrinica; the Catholic and Protestant killers of Northern Ireland; including Pastor, preacher of hate, and soon to be "First-Minister" of Northern Ireland, Ian Paisley. The Hutu priests who conived in the murder of their Tutsi congregations in Rwanda;The good Calvinists of the Apartheid regime - with its doctrine of God sanctioned racism; a doctrine shared at least until the 1960's by their lynching protestant brethren in the American South. Oh and all those good European catholics and protestants who did little to save european Jews from the death camps. Or those enthusiatic Russian orthodox pogromists.

In reality, Christians compete quite well with"Muslims" in the barbarism stakes

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Everything you mentioned (with exception to Bush and Blair, that's opinion) has been condemned by Christian masses all over the world. Not only condemned, but in some instances Christians are calling fo ractions against it. Do you see this same plea from the Muslim community to deal with it extremist which now are in the majority in Islam?

Also, you're not a Muslim? I honestly had no idea. I could have sworn you were from reading previous postings.

[Guest shiloh357]

Also, you're not a Muslim? I honestly had no idea. I could have sworn you were from reading previous postings.

yeah a lot of people did.

[papasangel]

My friends we must remember that terrorist come from all backgrounds. Not just muslim. We have had our own share of "homegrown" terrorists here in the US Timethy McViegh as one of them and rudloph who blew up an abortion clinic as a protest agains abortionists. We have seep spanish terrorists, the Basque and Nazi who murdered anyone who didn't toe the party line be it because they were jewish, romanina, polish etc or just their own citizens who did not agree with what Hitler and his cronies were doing. We have seen Terrorists all throughout history each having their own agenda. We have witnessed Pograms in the Jewish ghettos, violence in the settlements between jews and palestinians. These even called by other names is terrorism. Catholics during the inquisition, the crusades and other acts and atrocities committed by those with agenda of their own. What about the people who performs abortions? Those who murder and rob their nieghbors? What about those who use the cross in their evil ways to put fear into the hearts of their targets by burning the cross on lawns or burning churches even.

Then we must remember people like Ghandi, and Anabaptists who are willing to die bye the hands of those who call themselves "Christians" Dictatorships like Noriega, Saddam, Bin Laden all who use terrorism to achieve their ends. So you see you cannot label terrorists just one facet of humanity. I know many muslims who are peace loving individuals who embrace their nieghbors and help others in crisis. Same goes for every other religion we have you have both the good and the bad.

To sit here and make statements that all muslims or all christians or all anything else are terrorists is absurd and a lie. We are all capable of good and evil. Some just choose to let evil do their dirty work for them.

[apothanein kerdos]

The difference though is we don't make heroes out of those who do atrocities in Christ's name.

[papasangel]

I respectfully beg to differ Super Jew. BTW I have the utmost respect for you.

Those who fought in the crusades were considered Heros who fought for "Christ" against the infidels in the Middle East. They were respected and even the nobility sent their sons and husbands out to fight for a "just" cause.

Rudolph who evaded police for about 5 years was considered a "hero" for his bombing of an abortion clinic by many who stand against abortion. That his methods killed the doctor and maimed a nurse was ignored who considered his actions heroic on behalf of the unborn. He had help all those years evading the police by those who supported him.

Anabaptists who were martyred (Read The Maytars Mirror) were considered to be rightfully put to death by those in the religious right. Those who persecuted anabaptists were considered heros for ridding the world of "heretics"

Hitler was considered a "hero " by those in the Nazi party and rose to power on his adoring fans all the while being responsible for the deaths of millions of Jews, gypsys and others who were considered "unfit" for society. (Those also included the mentally ill, old and inform )

so yes terrorist have been considered "heros" by those who support them. Even Saddam and BinLaden were considered "heros" when they were "fighting" to liberate their people from oppression. Thats why the US and others gave them weapons, chemicals and training not to mention money to support their efforts and you see how that backfired on everyone.

So while I can understand your statement SJ you have to admit there were instances where those who fought for the "right" reasons were called heros even if they turned and bit the hand that supported them.

[apothanein kerdos]

I understand what you're saying but I think you're avoiding a greater view.

Did some view the Crusades as just? Absolutely, the majority did. Do we now? Of course not, we condemn it.

The abortion bombing while celebrated by a few was condemned by the majority.

The anabaptist are truly heroes. 5,000 in one day....it's just sad.

However, the majority of Christians condemn these acts of violence and these acts are most certainly condemned in the bible. However we have 95% of Palestinians saying that it was the "martry attacks" that freed Gaza. You have these people celebratin ghteir deaths, the majority of them. 15% of English Muslims believe that 9/11 was completely justified whereas nearly 30% believe terrorist attacks by Muslims are sometimse justified. The difference, for now, between Christianity, or all religions, and Islam, is we condemn our terrorist, Islam immortalizes theirs.

[dgolvach]

To sit here and make statements that all muslims or all christians or all anything else are terrorists is absurd and a lie. We are all capable of good and evil. Some just choose to let evil do their dirty work for them

.

If you read carefully through the posts you will find that no one has asserted that all Muslims are terrorists. But the vast majority of peaceful Muslims are powerless to do anything about the smaller but sufficient percent of Muslims that are commited to Jihad against us. Some of the History you have mentioned that exposes "mean stuff" done within a non-Muslim or even Christian world may be true but it doesn't matter at all in the context of what we are dealing with today. The extreme Islamic world uses the fact that we do have the capacity for self-examination as a tool for war. To them, it is a weakness that they will not fail to take advantage of. Again and again it must be said that this is not about hating Muslims. It is about realizing that our PC approach to how we deal with the greater Muslim world in a time of war against Muslim extremist is dangerous to our existance. Clinton and Janet Reno's lawyers blocked our military from sharing imformation with th FBI that would have most likely prevented 911. It was this same sort of PC '' lets not offend anyone" mindset that put the legal wall in place that protected Mohammed Atta and his fellow terrorists. He took advantage of this weakness to the max. Did he not? I certainly am not suggesting that we kill all Muslims. I am suggesting that we not keep our heads in the sand about the extremists among them who do a pretty good job of convincing us that they are not extremists. Atta and Co. were not praying in mosques on 910. They were at topless bars and out and about not acting very "religous". It might require a less PC approach to secure ourselves and our homeland. Some people just might get a bit offended. Others might be exposed for their true intentions.

Do you understand that they have a very crafty and deceptive way of waging war?

What would a nice Muslim have to hide?

Love our enemy? Yes. We also had better recognize and be able to insulate ourselves from this particular enemy because this one is unlike any other we have ever faced.

Dan