Theological Problems with God-guided Evolution

[The Barbarian]

The gravitational collapse of a main-sequence star like the sun, will not produce the sort of shock wave you see, when a supergiant implodes and blows off most of its mass into space.

IIRC, the collapse of a main sequence star is more gradual and much less catastrophic than the collapse that produces a supernova.

 

[Marlene S]

I probably should not post this but here goes:

Firstly I believe in Creation and that Humans are created in the Image and Likeness of God.

As one who seeks after knowledge and has been doing it for over forty years, I have found many interesting and intriguing things.

Perhaps there is a way to reconcile the two. A few years ago I came across this incredible book. I will not name it, because I believe it is a book that will be found by a seeker, eventually. I am still reading it... over 2,300 pages.

This book is supposedly written/channeled by Angels, the Angels of the Order of Melchisedec and Angels from other Heavenly Orders who are responsible for keeping the knowledge of God on the Earth.

Yes, I know... the doctrine of Angels... but, it's  Melchisedec! Supposedly...

The book explains everything, and I mean everything, except one thing, and the thing they do not understand is the thing that I am seeking Knowledge of, which is of Spiritual things.

It was interesting to learn that Angels know of spiritual things, they even sometimes see spiritual things, but they cannot explain where it comes from... it is not a part of their Created Realm. They do know that Human have access to this spiritual world, but they do not.

I have found ancient History and ancient archeology that are mind-bending. 

Did you know that the Chinese people believe that they have no ancestors here. And they have found that Tribes in New Guinea also have no ancestors. How can that be?

In some ancient manuscript they talk about ancient kings who ruled for thousands of years at a time, hundred of thousands of years ago. How do you reconcile these things?

The Angels said that there are/were seven races on Earth; three are Aboriginals- Red, Yellow and Blue races. Blacks are called Blue. (there is no black or white in the rainbow). I added that.

Three are mixed/hybrid races- Orange, Green and Indigo. These are the Green Giants/Nephilim,  the Orange are those long brained ones found in sites in some places around the world, as in Paracas, Peru, with those long big brains- Elongated skulls.

Finally the Indigo ones are also hybrids, but descendants of Nephilim and other hybrids. These also include Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons.

Then finally there is the Violet Race. I will try to keep this short because it does need a lot of words to explain.

So here goes. There was an original pair who were created by the Angels in a world that was Null and void. This happened hundred of thousands of years ago.  The Angels/ Watchers watched over the Earth and they and others were involved in the Genesis, down through the Ages to prepare the planet for Human life. They created all manner of creatures from the Ancient days.

The first couple they created had to evolve over thousand of years and get to the point in their evolution where they could recognize God as Creator. They were small creatures, very primitive, no more than four feet tall. They had to evolve.

Under the rule of the Watcher Kings the world was primitive and tribal and also full of paganism, because of the worship of the kings. They were mixing with the Aboriginals and creating off-springs in those days as well. 

These first Human were endowed with red, yellow and blue DNA, and from them came the three Aboriginal races- Red, Yellow and Blue. These evolved over a few hundred thousand years.

During that time Fallen Angels ruled as Kings on the Earth, each for thousands of years as in the Sumerian Texts. The world was harsh and primitive. Tribes lived in trees and then caves. They multiplied and separated through race and became tribal.

Fast forward to about 25,000 years ago, not sure of the time the Earth was dressed, as on the Eighth Day, Adam and Eve were created in the Image and Likeness of God, with Divine properties, unlike the Aboriginals who had to evolve to the point of finding out there is a God.

Adam and Eve are from the Violet Race and they came to mix with the other races in order to form a blended Human race of one... 'like a brotherhood of some kind, where there are no distinguishable races'- (that is crazy talk).

There is much more but, I will end this. Crazy, but it does explain things that remain unexplainable, like ancient monuments and ancient texts that say crazy things... like ancient Kings who ruled for 25,000 years. They also said that the Earth is 335,000,000 years old. (I should check that number).

I see this as information. It does not change my beliefs. It is not that I believe what the Angels said, but I did listen. Interesting. I really should not post this now, should I? Oh well, here goes.

M.

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Marlene S
update

[Marlene S]

I really had second thoughts when I posted above. I am sure that there are those who read the post, but no one said anything.

There are some Christians who believe the Earth is Six thousand years old, which is actually quite impossible to accept. What I do know is that down through the Ages there has been a deliberate and systemic effort to erase and hide our History from Humans.

They allow us to see what they want us to see and no more. When you become a seeker and you start finding things you are not supposed to find, they somehow get a wind of it and they will attack you. Who are they?

Human Beings are fearfully and wonderfully made. We are provided a way to overcome all the lies, delusions, deceptions and darkness they produce in this world.

The Earth is a Kingdom and the Devil sits on the throne, even though, he has been dethroned by Christ Jesus. The deception is even in the Church. There are 'seminaries' training 'preachers and teachers' to deceive the Church. So many are deceived.

What to do with this information. Do what I do. I see it as an interesting theory. It could be true, or it may not be, even partly true. They did not know about what I was seeking after- spiritual knowledge, so that was a sign; take it with a grain of salt. There might be another explanation somewhere, waiting to be found. It does make sense on so many levels though, doesn't it. 

There are so many 'cautions' when you find some 'knowledge', where it tells you not to speak of it to others or to certain kinds of people. To keep it to yourself. This was not one, but perhaps I should have kept it to myself. What do you think? 

Peace to you all, M.

Be in the world, but not of the world. Flesh and Blood cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. 

Peace to you, M.

 

[Guest]

Theistic Evolution: An Ungodly Compromise

by Joshua Travers

Many who consider themselves Christians believe that God guided the evolutionary process. Is that what really happened? And how does it concern you?

Evolution: “A theory that the differences between modern plants and animals are because of changes that happened by a natural process over a very long time.” That’s the definition provided by Merriam-Webster’s online dictionary.

This simple definition doesn’t truly sum up what evolution is. Evolution has become much more than a mere scientific theory—it has become a cultural force and the scientific foundation for atheism. Society is bombarded with evolutionary theory from the classroom to the news media to the movie theater.

It’s hard to fight a theory that is so widely taught that many consider it a fact. In the face of such opposition, many Christians have either given up the fight or reached a compromise with what some consider “the facts.”

Creation through evolution?

One of the most popular compromises for Christians is the belief system known as “theistic evolution” or “evolutionary creationism.” Theistic evolution basically says that though God created the universe and perhaps the spark of life long ago, He then let evolutionary processes produce everything else.

Theistic evolution attempts to do two things:

• Allow Christians to believe in a God.
• Go along with the theory of evolution.

However, the belief in theistic evolution is contrary to science and, more importantly, the words of the Bible. For more on how it contradicts the Bible, read “Can Christians Believe in Evolution?”

Why evolution doesn’t work

It is sad and ironic, but the attempt to accept evolution has caused many modern Christians to reject not just parts of the Bible, but also the scientific evidence. Despite what the schools and media declare, the weight of scientific evidence does not support the theory of evolution. However, a scientific movement known as “intelligent design” has support from both science and the Bible. For more on this scientific theory that opposes Darwinian evolution, read our article on “Intelligent Design.”

Here is a brief list of some of the scientific flaws in evolutionary theory:

• Mutations: According to the theory of evolution, beneficial mutations become part of a species’ gene pool and allow that animal to survive and produce more offspring. The problem with this aspect of the theory is that there have been many negative mutations recorded, but very few positive mutations.
• Irreducible complexity: Many things in the natural world are incredibly complex. For example, something as small as your eye involves millions of cells and complicated biochemistry that man couldn’t begin to understand until recent times. If just one of these numerous factors didn’t come into existence with the rest, then the whole system would fail and produce no beneficial effect. That doesn’t speak well for a theory that relies on gradual changes to develop one tiny part at a time.
• Fossil record: The theory of evolution states that living organisms changed in small ways through mutations and adaptations through the process of natural selection until they evolved into the living organisms that we see today. If this is true, then the fossil record should be full of a vast array of transitional fossils. But this is not the case for any species. Even in the case of mankind, the many “missing links” are still missing.

Man may be classified as an animal by science, yet in God’s eyes he is the pinnacle of creation. Of all that God created, man is the most special to Him—made in His own image.There are many more flaws with the theory of evolution, and thus with theistic evolution, than these three points. Yet these three alone are enough to convince many scientists that the theory of evolution is not a viable scientific option.

The insult of theistic evolution

Theistic evolution implies a serious insult to mankind and a rejection of one of the greatest truths of the Bible.

Evolution says that mankind came from lower life-forms, not directly from the Creator God as the Bible states. When you believe that a random process of natural selection brought mankind into being, you miss the special importance mankind has in the world that is evident in the creation account of the Bible.

Man may be classified as an animal by science, yet in God’s eyes he is the pinnacle of creation. Of all that God created, man is the most special to Him—made in His own image (Genesis 1:26). God did not create man to just live and die (and He definitely didn’t cause us to come from other organisms through a process of evolution).

Instead, God created humanity for a special purpose. God has given all mankind the opportunity to become a part of His family and to live with Him in His Kingdom. For more on humanity’s purpose, read our article, “Purpose of Life.”

In the end, compromise

Theistic evolution is based on a false theory, and it actually undermines trust in God and the Bible. Sadly, this is not the first time compromise has occurred in the history of Christianity. Mainstream Christianity is full of concessions made to pagan cultures and traditions through the centuries, including many popular holidays. (For more information about some of these corruptions of God’s way by false doctrines within Christianity, we encourage you to read the “Christ vs. Christianity” column in each issue of Discern magazine.)

There is a problem brought to the surface by these compromises within Christianity. It’s not just church organizations that corrupt God’s way. We can also individually betray God’s truth in order to appear more acceptable to the world around us or to escape persecution. This is a trap that God has warned His people about since the time of ancient Israel (Deuteronomy 12:30-31).

We need to be sure to never compromise God’s truth—be it with science, false religion or our own carnal desires. To avoid compromise, we must diligently study the Bible and stay firmly within God’s way of life (Proverbs 4:27).

Explore more about what God says about how He created everything in the articles in the “Is There a God?” section.

Source: Theistic Evolution

[Guest]

So if Theistic Evolution is not a viable answer, we must look at Genesis 1:1-3 with unbiased eyes and an open mind to another possibility.  In my study, I have found that answer in the Gap Theory. 

Old Earth creation is a reality.  Just look at the light from distant stars.  The stars are God's proof of an old Earth creation.  The speed of light shows us the age of the universe and Earth.

[teddyv]

On 11/3/2021 at 2:40 PM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

So if Theistic Evolution is not a viable answer, we must look at Genesis 1:1-3 with unbiased eyes and an open mind to another possibility.  In my study, I have found that answer in the Gap Theory. 

Old Earth creation is a reality.  Just look at the light from distant stars.  The stars are God's proof of an old Earth creation.  The speed of light shows us the age of the universe and Earth.

I don't know. Gap theory just seems like building a doctrine on two or three verses. 

I'm definitely TE and those critiques like you posted above are pretty standard, but not compelling at all. I don't have all the answers and it's unlikely anyone ever will.

 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, teddyv said:

I don't know. Gap theory just seems like building a doctrine on two or three verses. 

I'm definitely TE and those critiques like you posted above are pretty standard, but not compelling at all. I don't have all the answers and it's unlikely anyone ever will.

It's a bit more than that but I understand where you're coming from.  I won't condemn you as a heretic as I have been condemned by YEC.

[teddyv]

21 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

It's a bit more than that but I understand where you're coming from.  I won't condemn you as a heretic as I have been condemned by YEC.

And likewise.

[RV_Wizard]

On 11/4/2021 at 10:27 PM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

It's a bit more than that but I understand where you're coming from.  I won't condemn you as a heretic as I have been condemned by YEC.

Heresy is proclaiming a lie as a truth.  We have the right to be wrong, but not to tech things that are provably wrong.  If it's stated in the Bible, them it's truth.  If it's something you believe that is not specifically defined in the Bible, then it's opinion.  I try to separate the two and will willing say what I THINK the Bible implies but back it up with passages; not fragments of verses.  Theistic evolution is incompatible with the Bible and with science.  The Bible tells us that God created the animal kingdom intact, and that after the flood they went forward and multiplied greatly.  This I believe because Christ told us the Bible was accurate.

Evolution relies on benevolent mutations creating new characteristics and encoding them into the reproductive system.  The problem is, that doesn't seem to happen.  Even when mutations are forced over thousands of generations, there is no evolution.  We see adaptation, which is a conservative process by which traits are changed or lost, but now new information is added.  We look at similar fossils and arrange them as "must have been" developed in a sequence.  However all are complete as they are with no transitional fossils.  The fossil record proves only that species lived and died.

The ultimate foundation of evolution is the notion of a single common progenitor from which all of life developed.  That gives humans commonality with daffodils.  It led to the belief in the 1930's that some races were more evolved than others, and that inferior races were to blame for all problems.  World War II followed with the deaths of some 60 million people.  It has been said that evolution made it possible to be a fulfilled atheist.  It is a theory based in the rejection of the Scriptures and the desire to find answers that do not involve God or absolutes like good and evil.  You cannot make the word of God more holy by incorporating lies.  You only make it corrupt.  You can't give evolution credence by saying that God started it but then it happened on its own.  If it points to a supernatural origin then it's outside the boundaries of science.

[one.opinion]

On 11/22/2021 at 8:33 AM, RV_Wizard said:

You can't give evolution credence by saying that God started it but then it happened on its own.

Who made that claim? I admittedly haven’t been paying close attention to my own thread over the last few months, but I am certain I never made that claim. The title itself shows that I am not making that claim.
 

On 11/22/2021 at 8:33 AM, RV_Wizard said:

If it points to a supernatural origin then it's outside the boundaries of science.

I’m a Christian, so I obviously believe in God. I’m already outside of the boundaries of science, so I don’t see this as an obstacle.