Justin Adams Posted July 15, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 9,608 Content Per Day: 3.90 Reputation: 7,810 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, WilliamL said: This explanation does not support the accusation of Gnosticism leveled against me. Bait and switch: I said nothing about dying in spirit or body; the sole issue I raised concerned soul vs. life. Which I then backed up with the quote from Isaiah 53. Want to try again? Nephesh in Hebrew is soul/spirit interchangeably. Read the Tanakh. LXX also concurs. Edited July 15, 2021 by Justin Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted July 15, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,221 Content Per Day: 1.49 Reputation: 2,584 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted July 15, 2021 Just now, Justin Adams said: Nephesh in Hebrew is soul/spirit interchangeably. Read your Tanakh. I do read my Tanakh, in Hebrew. As I read my NT in Greek. Ruach is spirit; nephesh is soul. Many translators get their opinions all mixed up in their translations, and confuse the two terms. And then unknowledgable people get confused too, and promote all kinds of misguided beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted July 19, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.91 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Share Posted July 19, 2021 On 7/15/2021 at 12:04 PM, WilliamL said: Correction: Jesus said that He was able to lay down his soul/psuche and take it up again. Big difference between life and soul. Jesus could not have laid down His life if He tried, because then all Creation would have ceased, and His Father would have been very upset. Another misunderstanding (at minimum) caused by a faulty translation. Understand that there is physical death, spiritual death, and the eternal soul consciousness. ------ Jesus died a physical death, His soul separated from His body. He died a spiritual death being separated from the presence of the Father because of Him taking on the sins of the world saying, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me". We do not lose all consciousness after we are separated from the body, or do we lose consciousness when we are separated from God eternally at the second death. ----- The penalty for sin is death, separation from the body and separation from God. Jesus suffered both for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted July 19, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.91 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Share Posted July 19, 2021 On 7/14/2021 at 4:51 PM, The Light said: I like to let the scripture speak for itself. For instance, I could post this verse: Gen 7 9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth. It's pretty clear that Noah and the animals entered the ark and 7 days later the flood was upon the earth. Even with the scripture telling us exactly what happened, many do not understand these simple two sentences. I guess I get tired of spoon feeding because even with the scripture being so clear............... This has nothing to do with Nimrod or the beast of Rev 13. On 7/14/2021 at 4:51 PM, The Light said: That said, I have provided scriptural evidence that the beast is Nimrod. No you haven't. On 7/14/2021 at 4:51 PM, The Light said: The scripture speaks for itself. All we need to do is read what it says and believe what it says. Isa 14 3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve, 4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! 5 The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. 6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. 7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. 8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. Reading in verse 3, we should be able to determine that there will come a time when Israel will be at rest. Certainly, that day has not occurred yet. It is saying rest from the king of Babylon, BC. On 7/14/2021 at 4:51 PM, The Light said: In verse 4 we read that the proverb is taken against the king of Babylon. Yes, not future. On 7/14/2021 at 4:51 PM, The Light said: This is one of the terms that describes the Antichrist along with the Assyrian. In case you don't know, Assyria worshipped Nimrod as the god Molech. He is the only known person that was both the King of Babylon and an Assyrian. In verse 7 we read that the whole earth is at rest. The known earth of Israel in the time after the 70 years of the king of Babylon's oppression. On 7/14/2021 at 4:51 PM, The Light said: That certainly hasn't happened and will not happen until the return of Christ. This rest is from the oppression of Babylon in the past and is not future. On 7/14/2021 at 4:51 PM, The Light said: In verse 8 we see that the fir trees rejoice and the cedars of Lebanon, saying since the King of Babylon is laid down, no fellers have come against them. Currently do we see fir trees being cut down? What customs in Jeremiah 10 are vain? Cutting a tree from the forest and decking it with silver and gold. The trees are fastened so they will not move. BC, history. On 7/14/2021 at 4:51 PM, The Light said: Jer 10 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. The fir trees are cut every year and decorated in most houses. The fir tree represents Nimrod. When the king of Babylon, Nimrod is laid down, the fir tree will no longer be cut. Just Google search "Nimrod Christmas Tree" and the results should be clear. The Antichrist is the Roman Caesar. The references to Assyria in Daniel are to Antiochus and are not future. At the time that the Revelation was written, the beast was Caesar and Rome and that image continues to the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrection Priest Posted July 20, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 467 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 153 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/20/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2021 I find it interesting that "the beast" and the "false prophet" are both thrown alive into lake of fire, at the Glorious Return of Christ. If they are alive, they must be end time powers. How could the Beast be pagan Rome? That empire passed out of history more than 1500 years ago. I would argue that at one time - it was. I believe "the beast" is Satan's geopolitical system on earth. It rises and falls, taking on different national identities, but it is really the same Satanic system. "The false prophet" is Satan's great false spiritual system, telling lies to deceive men. Great Babylon has many daughters. In the last days, the spiritual system will preach in favor of co-operation with the Beast system, with the Little Horn (just as the church taught cooperation with Hitler). Babylon, the "harlot" that rides the Beast in the final days, may indeed be Israel (the geopolitical nation). She will sell her soul to the Beast, thinking she will receive protection. But the Beast will turn against her and take over the recently rebuilt Temple at Jerusalem. The Beast has existed for millennia (always striving for world domination), but will come to full power just before the Glorious Return of Christ. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted July 22, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,114 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 207 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) On 7/19/2021 at 4:25 PM, abcdef said: This has nothing to do with Nimrod or the beast of Rev 13. No you haven't. It is saying rest from the king of Babylon, BC. Yes, not future. The known earth of Israel in the time after the 70 years of the king of Babylon's oppression. This rest is from the oppression of Babylon in the past and is not future. BC, history. The Antichrist is the Roman Caesar. The references to Assyria in Daniel are to Antiochus and are not future. At the time that the Revelation was written, the beast was Caesar and Rome and that image continues to the day. The Word proves what I'm saying. The fir tree is still being cut, every Christmas, which proves that this is an unfulfilled prophecy. Therefore all Preterist nonsense is just a waste of time. Edited July 22, 2021 by The Light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrection Priest Posted July 22, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 467 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 153 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/20/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 22, 2021 In the vision of Daniel 7: Daniel watches until "the Beast" is killed and burned. THEN the angel tells him. "As for the rest of the beasts (lion, bear, leopard) they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time." NOTE: Dominion is given to Christ (and his saints). So - the lion, bear, and leopard nations are still around AFTER the terrible Beast with 7 heads and 10 horns (and little horn) is destroyed. The "beasts" were not successive kingdoms. They are concurrent - the 4 of them pushing for world domination towards the end of this age. The 4th "terrible beast" will win out for some time, just at the end. Revelation 20:8 speaks of "nations which are in the four corners of the earth" a the 8th millennium. Satan has been released from his 1000 year prison (the bottomless pit) to "deceive the nations." I personally believe "the nations" will be resurrected at the 8th millennium. That is when "the rest" are resurrected. Rev 20:5 I don't believe this earth will be habitable for a good part of the 7th millennium. The last bowl plagues will destroy everything necessary for live. I believe "the rest" are neither wicked nor righteous. They lived in ignorance of God and His Son, or died as children. I believe they will be resurrected to continue their lives on the earth, to learn of God and "His ways", and then to either serve Christ (reigning as King) or join the Army of Gog/Magog. Christ will have "priests" prepared to govern and teach them. Rev 20:6 Message me for link to a study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted July 27, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.91 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Share Posted July 27, 2021 On 7/20/2021 at 5:14 PM, Resurrection Priest said: I find it interesting that "the beast" and the "false prophet" are both thrown alive into lake of fire, at the Glorious Return of Christ. Rev 19 does not show the return of Jesus. Rev 19:11, Says that heaven was opened and that Jesus is seen in heaven, but it does not show that He returns to planet earth. Rev 19:15, Is showing the victory of the gospel sword over the Roman Empire sea beast. The remnant shown in v 21 is the RCC earth beast. The souls of the Caesars and their supporters are already judged because they did not accept and obey Jesus. On 7/20/2021 at 5:14 PM, Resurrection Priest said: If they are alive, they must be end time powers. They are end time powers as seen by John at the writing of the Rev. The iron nation of Dan. 2 is continual and lasts until Jesus comes for the kingdom (future to us still). On 7/20/2021 at 5:14 PM, Resurrection Priest said: How could the Beast be pagan Rome? That empire passed out of history more than 1500 years ago. I would argue that at one time - it was. It "was" before John, it "is" at the time of John, it "is not" for a time, and yet "still is" today. The sea beast Roman Empire was killed by the sword, but the earth beast made an image of Caesar worship and continues. The sea beast and the earth beast are different forms of Rome, they are both Caesar worship, just different forms of Caesar worship. On 7/20/2021 at 5:14 PM, Resurrection Priest said: I believe "the beast" is Satan's geopolitical system on earth. It rises and falls, taking on different national identities, but it is really the same Satanic system. The beast rules over the known earth of Israel, not the planet. On 7/20/2021 at 5:14 PM, Resurrection Priest said: "The false prophet" is Satan's great false spiritual system, telling lies to deceive men. Great Babylon has many daughters. In the last days, the spiritual system will preach in favor of co-operation with the Beast system, with the Little Horn (just as the church taught cooperation with Hitler). Man you nailed it there, Rome and Hitler. Both Jew haters. But Rome was the far greater persecutor over 2000 years, continually, the iron of Dan. 2. On 7/20/2021 at 5:14 PM, Resurrection Priest said: Babylon, the "harlot" that rides the Beast in the final days, may indeed be Israel (the geopolitical nation). She will sell her soul to the Beast, thinking she will receive protection. You are right again, except that the time period that is showing the woman Israel riding the Roman beast, is at the beginning of the period, starting when John wrote the Revelation and lasting until Jerusalem is restored. The time is ended now and not future. On 7/20/2021 at 5:14 PM, Resurrection Priest said: But the Beast will turn against her and take over the recently rebuilt Temple at Jerusalem. Rome is only an image now, so the Roman Antichrist must deceive the kings of the east (Iran) to attack Jerusalem. On 7/20/2021 at 5:14 PM, Resurrection Priest said: The Beast has existed for millennia (always striving for world domination), but will come to full power just before the Glorious Return of Christ. JMO The beast nation is shown ruling over the people of Israel and not the planet. The rule of the beast nation ended when Jerusalem was restored in 1967. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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