WilliamL Posted June 17, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,221 Content Per Day: 1.49 Reputation: 2,584 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted June 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: Ad hominem only demonstrates the weakness of the dispensational position. Huh? aren't the arguments against dispensationalism largely ad hominem arguments? Darby this, Scofield that, etc.? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post debrakay Posted June 17, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,249 Content Per Day: 1.88 Reputation: 3,104 Days Won: 20 Joined: 03/02/2021 Status: Offline Popular Post Share Posted June 17, 2021 24 minutes ago, WilliamL said: We may not understand how this will work out, but God does. The Age of Faith, and thereby grace by faith, lasts only until the coming of the Lord. Because, after He appears, faith becomes moot, and only obedience will be relevant, for 'every eye will have seen Him." Rev. 1:7 Then the earthly man (but not the elect/spiritual man, will be ruled by the "rod of iron": that is, by force. That is, by law. Sorry to just pop into this conversation but I wanted to say I have felt the call to obedience in a huge way for the past year since the plague hit. During these months over and over "obedience" has been heard in a very loud way from the Holy Spirit for me. He told me that I need to stop being self centered in any way and be obedient to him and the word. He said the "light on the hill" that I emit to the world around me needs to be clear and clean without spot or wrinkle. I'm trying very hard to clean up anything unholy. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted June 17, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 17, 2021 11 hours ago, Heleadethme said: Sister, scripture is clear that when Jesus comes is the day of His wrath....there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth...the door to salvation will be shut to those who rejected Him before that Day, and the wicked will be judged. Confusion and contradiction is from believing otherwise, I'm afraid. Heledadethme Jeremiah chapter 31 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted June 18, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2021 11 hours ago, Heleadethme said: Allegorical. He speaks to us in parables. I don't understand every detail of the words of Zechariah...but a lot of it at least are Messianic prophecies dramatically foretelling of the first coming of Christ and His triumph on the cross. Zech. 13:1 talks about a fountain opening on that day for sin and uncleanness... Heleadethme Zech 13 can only happen after the 2nd Coming. Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. Zechariah 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. Is it only Jerusalem that has false prophets and unclean spirits in the land? What about all the false prophets that Jesus said would come in his name? Are they not still here today? They are still in the land. Zechariah 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. After Christ returns, no one can deceive anymore, because the truth will flow out of the kingdom. The truth will be plain for all to understand. None will get away with lies ever again. They will be dealt with straight away. It has to be this way for the healing of the nations, because who's in charge now? That whole 'land' spoken of is the kingdom of God on earth called Zion. Currently it has been defiled and remains defiled until Jesus comes to clean it up. This is not only concerning Israel but Christians who follow Christ. For in the last part of this chapter it explains why this land was left desolate; Zechariah 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. The Jews didn't accept Christ, but many gentile Christians didn't heed all Christ's warnings either. They were scattered not staying with the true Shepherd. Jesus will herd some of them back. This is mercy. So; Isaiah 4:3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem: Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning. This is that tribulation I mentioned before that is coming and the punishment of the 7 last plagues. All leads up to this. That spirit of burning will cause vexation of spirit and suffering, ...not for the sake of these doing good, but because they erred. Must be washed clean and humbled before they can enter the next phase of the millennium. Isaiah 33:5 The LORD is exalted; for he dwelleth on high: he hath filled Zion with judgment and righteousness. So the land of Zion has to be put through the plough first and all the clods removed so that seed can be planted again on smooth ground; Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? Jeremiah 9:19 For a voice of wailing is heard out of Zion, How are we spoiled! we are greatly confounded, because we have forsaken the land, because our dwellings have cast us out. Isaiah 51:11 Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away. It's written all throughout scripture and repeated in so many places so that we don't forget and keep guard. Zion has to be redeemed with judgement first. All sin unrepented of must be punished to received correction. Zech 13 is after the return of Christ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted June 18, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,654 Content Per Day: 1.97 Reputation: 2,380 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2021 22 hours ago, Heleadethme said: Allegorical. He speaks to us in parables. I don't understand every detail of the words of Zechariah...but a lot of it at least are Messianic prophecies dramatically foretelling of the first coming of Christ and His triumph on the cross. Zech. 13:1 talks about a fountain opening on that day for sin and uncleanness....this is referred to again in Zech 14:8, the living waters that flow out from Jerusalem where He was crucified. Jesus on the Mount of Olives in Zech 14 with the mountain being split in two opening a way of escape (salvation)....is alluding to His crucifixion and body being broken to make a way of salvation I believe, like the Red Sea was parted to make a way for the Israelites (which is also a picture of salvation). That's why Paul mentions in Heb. 6, "we who have FLED to take hold of the hope set before us." The Lord doing battle with the "nations"..... in scripture "nations" is often a picture of 'foreign' spiritual entities, aka the devil and his angels. And Jerusalem certainly was judged, those who did not accept Jesus and the escape from judgment that He offered, sadly...the same generation that rejected Him. He longsuffered and gave the Jews a few more decades to change their minds, and of course thankfully some did, through the preaching and work of the apostles and early church, and they were reaped into the kingdom before that wrath and judgment came. (But I wonder if those things are also a warning and admonition and pattern as to what is to happen at the second coming....judgment of the Gentile world this time....judgment began at the house of God, meaning Jerusalem in that era.) Allegorical except when it comes to that necessary personal affect. It's real when it comes to Jesus work on the cross and salvation. That happened in a real physical way and we believe it because it's a very good thing and it directly affects us personally. We are saved from sin, born again, translated in to heavenly places, eternal life, power, glory and status; and all of that is not just good but the very best of all existence, forever. The rest of it has to be allegorical or for other people. What a shame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted June 23, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,221 Content Per Day: 1.49 Reputation: 2,584 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted June 23, 2021 On 6/17/2021 at 5:19 AM, Heleadethme said: Jesus on the Mount of Olives in Zech 14 with the mountain being split in two opening a way of escape (salvation)....is alluding to His crucifixion and body being broken to make a way of salvation I believe, like the Red Sea was parted to make a way for the Israelites (which is also a picture of salvation). So if Zech. 14 is allegorical, why then isn't the parting of the Red Sea allegorical also. Or do you get to pick and choose which is literal and which isn't? This kind of of subjective exegesis can only lead seekers into confusion. And "God is not the author of confusion." 1 Cor. 14:33 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted June 23, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 9,608 Content Per Day: 3.90 Reputation: 7,810 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, WilliamL said: do you Tos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted June 23, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,221 Content Per Day: 1.49 Reputation: 2,584 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted June 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: 12 minutes ago, WilliamL said: do you Tos. Generic. Alternate to "does one/do we." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted June 23, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, WilliamL said: So if Zech. 14 is allegorical, why then isn't the parting of the Red Sea allegorical also. Or do you get to pick and choose which is literal and which isn't? This kind of of subjective exegesis can only lead seekers into confusion. And "God is not the author of confusion." 1 Cor. 14:33 Zech 14 is a prophecy. Parting of the Red Sea actually happened, though it is also an allegorical picture of salvation and baptism. Also just to add, people can be confused all on their own, without it being God's fault. Edited June 23, 2021 by Heleadethme 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted June 23, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 9,608 Content Per Day: 3.90 Reputation: 7,810 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 23, 2021 27 minutes ago, WilliamL said: This kind of of subjective exegesis can only lead seekers into confusion. Well throw away the dispensational narrative handbook then they will be ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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