Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[transmogrified]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

There is only one resurrection for the saved.  Dan 12:2, Jn 5:24, Acts 24:15, 1 Cor 15:23

Very good.. Dan. 12 :2 John 5, the dead in Christ rising in 1 Thess.4 , the “ time of the dead that they  should be judged, In Rev 11, he will judge the living and the dead at his appearing and kingdom in 1 Tim 4:1.. all are the same resurrection for all believers at the second coming

[transmogrified]

49 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Then there was no need for them to receive the Holy Spirit.  They were already there. Doesn't work your way  

The Holy Spirit wasn’t given in the OT but the prophecy was that a prophet would arise and everyone would have to hear what he said or be cut off.. of course  that was Jesus but he brought in a new covenant and it was by that spirit they received on Pentecost that baptized them into the body of Christ.. but the body already existed.. as there is only one body as Paul said.. The vine was there after the branches were broken off, it’s just now since Jesus came the only way to get into that vine again was by the Holy Spirit… but this was not a criteria to be in the bride as described in Revelation.. God is not restricting them being in the congregation because they didn’t have the spirit IN THAT OT TIME FRAME … now of course they are in unbelief but it didn’t say all the branches were broken off, he said SOME of them were broken off.. so where would that put believing O T saints at the timeJesus came? . they would accept the baptism and the new covenant that was promised and continue abiding in the same vine.. It was prophesied that Jesus would come and Jesus addressed their hypocrisy saying “ don’t say you are following Moses, for Moses told you of me.. so they were rejecting what was already prophesied in their own law.. point being God  does not eliminate the faithful OT saints who were faithful IN THEIR TIME from being in the bride.. they were ransomed by God and in the congregation of God back in the OT so even Stephen said they were in the church in the wilderness.. The thing with who gets resurrected at the 7th trumpet shows all the prophets and saints small and great are included.. read it for yourself.. Who is the resurrection at the 7 th trumpet.. Rev 11:18.. “  And the time of the dead that they should be judged and that thou shouldest  give reward to thy servants the prophets, the saints, and them that fear thy name both  small and great.. “ There is no one outside of these parameters - The saints small and great are rewarded RIGHT  HERE AT THE SEVENTH TRUMPET.. So what does that mean? It means the saints, small and great and the prophets WERE NOT REWARDED BEFORE THIS TIME.. at a pre trib event.. Pre trib has the saints rewarded before the tribulation even starts.. scripture has ALL THE SAINTS rewarded at the 7th trumpet and not before.. Point being man says only those who have the Holy Spirit are in the bride .. This is absolutely not true as OT saints are plainly shown to be both resurrected with all the other saints and are just as much shown to be a part of the bride as the 12 apostles describe present day believers are part of the bride..

[Montana Marv]

8 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

The Holy Spirit wasn’t given in the OT but the prophecy was that a prophet would arise and everyone would have to hear what he said or be cut off.. of course  that was Jesus but he brought in a new covenant and it was by that spirit they received on Pentecost that baptized them into the body of Christ.. but the body already existed.. as there is only one body as Paul said.. The vine was there after the branches were broken off, it’s just now since Jesus came the only way to get into that vine again was by the Holy Spirit… but this was not a criteria to be in the bride as described in Revelation.. God is not restricting them being in the congregation because they didn’t have the spirit IN THAT OT TIME FRAME … now of course they are in unbelief but it didn’t say all the branches were broken off, he said SOME of them were broken off.. so where would that put believing O T saints at the timeJesus came? . they would accept the baptism and the new covenant that was promised and continue abiding in the same vine.. It was prophesied that Jesus would come and Jesus addressed their hypocrisy saying “ don’t say you are following Moses, for Moses told you of me.. so they were rejecting what was already prophesied in their own law.. point being God  does not eliminate the faithful OT saints who were faithful IN THEIR TIME from being in the bride.. they were ransomed by God and in the congregation of God back in the OT so even Stephen said they were in the church in the wilderness.. The thing with who gets resurrected at the 7th trumpet shows all the prophets and saints small and great are included.. read it for yourself.. Who is the resurrection at the 7 th trumpet.. Rev 11:18.. “  And the time of the dead that they should be judged and that thou shouldest  give reward to thy servants the prophets, the saints, and them that fear thy name both  small and great.. “ There is no one outside of these parameters - The saints small and great are rewarded RIGHT  HERE AT THE SEVENTH TRUMPET.. So what does that mean? It means the saints, small and great and the prophets WERE NOT REWARDED BEFORE THIS TIME.. at a pre trib event.. Pre trib has the saints rewarded before the tribulation even starts.. scripture has ALL THE SAINTS rewarded at the 7th trumpet and not before.. Point being man says only those who have the Holy Spirit are in the bride .. This is absolutely not true as OT saints are plainly shown to be both resurrected with all the other saints and are just as much shown to be a part of the bride as the 12 apostles describe present day believers are part of the bride..

So who are trying say is that we the N.T. Bride are trying  to make our half sister the O.T. Bride envious. We done got the H.S. and you don't. We have the Fruits of the Spirit,  you don't. We have been crucified with Christ,  buried in  his baptism and Resurrected with him, and you haven't. We worship on the 1st day of the week.  You worship on the sabbath. Want a few more discrepancies. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

[transmogrified]

16 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

So who are trying say is that we the N.T. Bride are trying  to make our half sister the O.T. Bride envious. We done got the H.S. and you don't. We have the Fruits of the Spirit,  you don't. We have been crucified with Christ,  buried in  his baptism and Resurrected with him, and you haven't. We worship on the 1st day of the week.  You worship on the sabbath. Want a few more discrepancies. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

Jesus said whoever does the will of my father is my mother and brother and sister.. Abraham is our brother in Christ, Isaiah - Moses, .. we all have the same father - god told Israel he was the Rock that BEGAT them… the distinction is in their day they were under the law and in our day we are brought into a new covenant but Paul said they the Gentiles are fellow heirs and partakes  of the same promises and of the same body.. The body of Christ didn’t start on the day of Pentecost - We were baptized into the body that already already existed however at this same time the covenant changed from the old to the new.. being in the new is not a criteria for being the bride of Christ..All the saints are his bride- 

[Montana Marv]

5 hours ago, transmogrified said:

that is NOT how the scripture defines her..

The Church/Bride of Christ is without spot or wrinkle'

By God's Words  those of Israel are like an unfaithful or adulteress wife .

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

The 70th to me can be similar to a bucket of water with solid material in it.

Take a scoop of the water and put it a glass, then another scoop and put into another glass, and do it again a third time.  Now agitate the bucket and take 1/4th of the liquid out,  Then after a while agitate it again and take 1/3rd of the remaining liquid out.

Now do a slow drain of the bucket.  All the solid materials left in this bucket will go into the Wine press, Armageddon.  All the water which is drained out are those who will go into the Mill.

The first glass are those saints of Rev 13 who we killed and will go up..

The second glass are the 144,000 of Israel which will go up

The third glass are those beheaded ones waiting under the Altar, later to go into heaven

All the heavy solids are those who took the MOTB and worshiped him.

Those who were drained out the bottom were all the demon and idol worshipers, which did not take the MOTB or worship him. and ushered into the Mill

The 1st 1/4th are those who died in the 3rd Seal;  The next 1/3rd are those who die at the 6th Trumpet.

I see no Post Trib Rapture here.  Just a dirty bucket at the end.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, transmogrified said:

The fatal error is when it says “ those that sleep in Jesus God will bring with him” At this point they think the direction is UPWARDS instead of HIM BRINGING THE DEAD IN CHRIST DOWN with HIM.. .. This then leads to next faulty conclusion that Jesus reversed directions and Goes up when the scripture is always saying he is COMING - Never GOING 

Excellent point!

[transmogrified]

5 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

The Church/Bride of Christ is without spot or wrinkle'

By God's Words  those of Israel are like an unfaithful or adulteress wife .

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 Why in the world would you be looking at it from that angle? Its like your trying to prove God's Word isn't true....you didn't say that about the New Testament saints where it said 'well look here, God says he would spit you out of his mouth because you are lukewarm. Of course we are not talking about unfaithful people during Old Testament times who were of the seed of Abraham...God even told the Pharisees he knew they were Abraham's seed yet they were going about to kill and he told them if they were of God they would love him...God has his people who overcome in both old and New Testaments...God told Daniel at the time of the resurrection he would deliver his people, every one that shall be found written in the Book...They have their names written in the same book that we have our names written in...they can be blotted out just like we can be blotted out..God has his faithful people in Both Testaments and they are who the bride is...

[Montana Marv]

27 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

 

 Why in the world would you be looking at it from that angle? Its like your trying to prove God's Word isn't true....you didn't say that about the New Testament saints where it said 'well look here, God says he would spit you out of his mouth because you are lukewarm. Of course we are not talking about unfaithful people during Old Testament times who were of the seed of Abraham...God even told the Pharisees he knew they were Abraham's seed yet they were going about to kill and he told them if they were of God they would love him...God has his people who overcome in both old and New Testaments...God told Daniel at the time of the resurrection he would deliver his people, every one that shall be found written in the Book...They have their names written in the same book that we have our names written in...they can be blotted out just like we can be blotted out..God has his faithful people in Both Testaments and they are who the bride is...

I am proving what you believe in is not true.  The Word is true.  The way one interpreters it can be false and misleading, as yours is.

Your One Bride con-tribe is theory, not fact.  It's as if some seminary grad student wrote a thesis about what you now believe for his degree.  Thesis, not Doctrine. You read his work at some time and took it Hook, Line, and Sinker.  Your One Bride doctrine is False, like many of your other postings.  Pie in the sky.

Col 1:2 - To the holy and faithful brothers in Christ. Phil 1:1,2 - Paul and Timothy, servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Phillipi...v3 Your partnership in the gospel.

And then. 2 Tim 4:18 - The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me to his heavenly kingdom, To him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.  He is there now in his spirit, waiting to be reunited with his body. Which will be at the Rapture/Harpozo

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

21 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

The most obvious flaw is that there are no verses that describe Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven.  

Then according to John 14 He, Jesus Christ has not prepared a room or mansion for you in the Father's House. And you do not know the way to where Jesus Christ now is, in the Fathers House.  So there is no way you can get there, You are earth bound.  You will never enjoy any heavenly, in the kingdom of God experiences.  That is a morbid thought.

In Christ

Montana Marv