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George

Defense of the Mid Trib Rapture

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Guest shadow2b

- -- WAIT--WAIT--PLEASE---WAIT--A-SECOND---YOU CAN have my milk & cookies---YA'LL don't have to get VIOLENTLY-- VIOLENT NOW-----BUT i ain't gonna tell ya who i am-- :x: ---then i can go incognatical too--- :D ------SO THERE-------defiantly sticks tongue out--nyyyyyyyyyy--nyyyyyyyy--nyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy-----NOW you can't find me----------:down: :D:help:

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Sorry Gary - but we can ALWAYS find you brother. Your writing style gives you away! :bg:

What kind of cookies are they??? :tongue:

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Sorry Gary - but we can ALWAYS find you brother. Your writing style gives you away! :bg:

What kind of cookies are they??? :tongue:

COOKIES!!!???? No one told me there would be COOKIES!! SURE! Lose a server, have a few pc crashes plus get extremely busy with a new job and ministry, finally get a new machine back on the net again and find that your now serving cookies and no one invited me!!!

I like mine "First Resurrectionist/Pre-Wrath" style please. (that's Oatmeal with Chocolate Chip in case yer wondering) :wub:

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Greetings.

Hope I get an invite too - could certainly do with that cookie after just crashing my pc twice!

Anyway, if I may be serious now, if you take a look at Isaiah 26:20-21 (NIV and emphasis mine)

"Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; HIDE yourselves FOR A LITTLE WHILE until His Wrath has passed by.

See, the Lord is coming out of His dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed upon her; she will conceal her slain no longer.

rooms = chambers = bridal chambers = mansions in heaven

The above verses describe the rapture event taking place mid-trib before God's Wrath begins to pour out upon the earth during the last 3 1/2 years of the 70th Week.

Btw, mid-trib parallels much of the elaborate traditional Jewish betrothal and wedding ceremony wherein there are Jewish elements of it being found or surviving in certain other cultures - in some Arab, European and Asian (rural Chinese, Indian and Malay) traditional engagement and marriage customs.

Just some tidbits there! God bless.

:a2:

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Anyway, if I may be serious now, if you take a look at Isaiah 26:20-21 (NIV and emphasis mine)

"Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; HIDE yourselves FOR A LITTLE WHILE until His Wrath has passed by.

See, the Lord is coming out of His dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins.

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RCruise :il: It is sooo good to hear from you again Brother :laugh: I have missed you heaps friend. Good to see you have been busy with your ministry :laugh: I know what it is like to have a puter die on you I lost my faithful dell just last week. lucky i had this machine standing by :laugh:

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

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Hi Brother George!

Since no one has responded to this one as yet, I thought I would throw something in here. Typically, the way most people refer to "mid-trib" rapture as to the timing according to prophecy and signs in the Bible, I would fall in this category. Yet, I reference according to strict Biblical reference actually puts me as "Post-Trib/Pre-Wrath". I believe any who believe in the termed "Mid-Trib" rapture are actually in agreement with my own beliefs and the simplistic Biblical outline also it's just we use differing terms.

Of late, I simply say I am a "First Resurrectionist". In other words; I'll be either pulled out of the grave (if dead) or, translated / "caught up in the air" (if still alive) after the dead go up first. Keeping it to the simplicity of tems of "First Resurrection" makes it easily identifiable Biblically. For anyone who has studied any at all on their own know that we shall not be "raptured" before that day. Then it becomes easier to point to all the verses which point to the "First Resurrection".

Re 20:4

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them,

and judgment was given unto them: and I saw

the souls of them that were beheaded for the

witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and

which had not worshipped the beast, neither his

image, neither had received his mark upon

their foreheads, or in their hands; and they

lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Re 20:5

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the

thousand years were finished. This is the first

resurrection.

Re 20:6

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first

resurrection: on such the second death hath no

power, but they shall be priests of God and of

Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand

years.

As can be seen in these three simple verses, those who are counted in the "First Resurrection" have gotten a victory over the beast, his image, and his "Mark". The "Pre-Trib" theory so loosly tied with alter-interpretations of unrelated scriptures that do not directly speak of the "First Resurrection" or even these end times, believes that we the Church are gone before the terrible reign of the antichrist, the beast or his mark. How they get "out of here" prior to the "First Resurrection" is a mystery even greater than the loosely tied unrelated Scriptures they try to prove their case with.

???????????????????????????????????????????????

Just some food for thought folks.

God Bless.

Hi Rc,

Man am I slow, I just now seen this post. but man this is the position I hold as well.

I believe in the first ressurection rapture as well, it seems to be post trib as far I have seen, but I like that "first ressurection rapture" never heard that terminology before, but I like it, I like it.

And I agree also that this puts me in a "Post-trib--Pre wrath" catergory as well. Very well put

God bless

Kevin

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Guest Benny

I am new to this forum and find it rather surprising that there are so many that share my views about a post trib and pre wrath resurection/rapture here. This is not the case on most forums I regret to write.

But to address something rollingthunder wrote. If you look at the 144,000 Jews in chapter 7 of revelations you will find them being sealed with Gods seal just after the resurection/rapture has occured, which happens at the end of chapter 6. Then you see them again in chapter 14 standing on Mt Sion with the Lamb (Christ). Well my question is this. If there is only two resurections (at the end of days) seperated by 1000 years as Revelations 20:4-6 say, and the resurection will happen "in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump" as the scriptures say, so then the resurection is not scattered over a matter of years. Then how do the tribulation saints being the 144,000 (as you say or imply), that are killed in Rev. 20:4-6 get resurrected since the second resurection is 1000 years later. Yet they are seen on Mt. Sion fully alive with the Lord when he comes back to rule for that 1000 years? This is logistically imposible. This would make either Paul, or John a lier. It must be extremly confusing for anyone trying to teach this pretrib rapture theory in the light of so much contradiction. The only way to teach this theory is to leave out and misinterpret a great deal of scriptures to make it work.

I have been trying to get Christians to understand this and the well put points that Rcruise made since 1985 with not much luck I might add. I completely agree with rc and shadow. I have wondered many times and am almost convinced that the resistance to the truth about this can well be partly explained in II Thess 2:10: And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

No insult intended, but just as the Laodacians were blind to the truth, still Jesus instructed them to repent and they would be saved.

take care

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Greetings Benny,

Welcome. I am one of those post-trib, pre-mill types, and yes it is nice to find several, but not most of the members here that are like-minded. The problems you bring up with the pre-trib doctrine are only the surface of the depth of obfuscation to which the pre-tribs must go to make their doctrine palatable to those being deceived. My main objection to that doctrine is that when the time comes that the "Mark of the Beast" is required upon everyone, those who are dogmatically pre-trib will be convinced that "it is NOT the mark", and thus they will take it, because their thoughts are that it occurs during mid-trib and they "will be outta here" long before that time. So by their being alive and on earth at that time, many will take the mark. That will be a very sad day for the body of Christ. But come Judgment day when those who taught such an EVIL doctrine, will see for themselves just HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE LOST on account of their error. I know that not all who preach that doctrine will lose their salvation, but "they will be saved as by fire". Much if not most of their works are going to be burnt up.

I think a great deal of Chuck Swindoll, but the other day, confirmation came from his own lips that he believes in the pre-trib doctrine. As annointed as he is, I just don't understand how he might reach that conclusion.

Good to have you aboard.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

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I have wondered many times and am almost convinced that the resistance to the truth about this can well be partly explained in II Thess 2:10: And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

No insult intended, but just as the Laodacians were blind to the truth, still Jesus instructed them to repent and they would be saved.

take care

benny,

I thought you were doing fine until you got to this point. This is where I lose all respect for you, and it appears to be a matter of pride in my opinion.

Just one question or three, from someone who you might think his salvation is not as secure as yours, even though no one appointed you judge:

Even though I'm not a pre-tribber, it appears that you believe the strong delusion that God will send will be the pre-tribbers believing the fantacy of a pre-trib rapture.

My question: In your own words, what exactly is the strong delusion that God will send upon those who failed to love the truth? Or did I get it right above?

For that matter, your honor, what is truth? :t2:

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