Conversation with those who believe Christ has NOT returned (2nd Advent) and will NOT be coming pre trib (rapture)

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, luigi said:

Once this being caught up takes place, war develops in heaven, upon which the devil and his angels are cast out unto the earth.

Scripture please.  

 

3 hours ago, luigi said:

As such, the man child who is caught up in Revelation 12:5 would seem to me to correlate with those have fallen asleep in Christ, prior to Christs return and commencing to reign at the conclusion of the beasts 42 month reign, whereas the remnant surviving offspring of the woman with whom Satan makes war with, but who are still alive in their skins at the conclusion of the 42 month reign of the beast, represent those who are caught up when the Lord returns.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, WHO WAS TO RULE ALL NATIONS WITH A ROD OF IRON and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

WHO IS THIS EXACTLY AND NO ONE NOR A COMPOSITE OF MANY?  
 

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Revelation 19:13 And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:15 And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:16 And He hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.


LET THERE BE NO QUESTION WHO WAS THE MAN CHILD CAUGHT UP TO GOD,


                         THIS IS SCRIPTURE INTREPRETING SCRIPTURE

AN AS SUCH WE CAN NOT TOUCH IT WITH ANY OTHER MEANING BECAUSE

                  ANY OTHER MEANING WOULD BE OF OUR OWN MAKING.  

BUT I 100% agree with the rest, the remnant who have not been deceived, who have not been unfaithful, who have not taken the mark of the beast, who have stood, endured to the end, overcome, withstood the fiery darts of Satan, remained virgins by having enough oil in their lamps because they have put on the gospel armor, will be changed to be forever with the Lord and to reign and rule with Him judging the angels (all souls) for the 1000 years Satan will be bound and sealed up in the pit. D

4 hours ago, luigi said:

While some see the man child who is caught up to God and His throne in Revelation 12:5 as Jesus; in Revelation 4:1 the Lord calls John to heaven to show him events which must be hereafter, thereby indicating events in chapters 4-22, including the man child in Revelation 12 as not a recounting historical event of Jesus' ascension, but is instead a future prophesy.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

You know,  I feel like I am missing something you are trying to tell me, if so I am sorry but want to let you know God will let me see it when it is time.  Just don't want you walking away feeling frustrated cause I am not getting it.  Probably super simple too.  

If you are going to set in stone that every thing from 4 on is only prophecy then you are going to need to go all the way back to 

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Revelation 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Meaning ALL of it is prophecy.  But even in telling of future events background info is sometimes mandatory for the understanding.  We can't understand any END without knowing the BEGINNING.  Just saying...

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Revelation 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Revelation 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

Revelation 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Revelation 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Ok, have seen my “test” response and it was sent and seen on my PC and IPHONE...

Went back onto PC to try and send my response to Selah.... would not move off the “saving” message after I hit submit...

Can anyone help me resolve this... I have been using my PC - Windows 7 for some time now without issue.

 Thank you, Charlie 

Windows 7?  Are they still updating that?  It may be time to 'upgrade' not so much for the luxury of it all but for the security.  I don't know that much, but that would be my worry... D

[luigi]

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi Luigi,  

It isn't your explanation, it what scripture got you there.  Could you please tell me that same thing only uses Gods words or verses put together that tell that story so that I might follow how you were lead that way? 

I am GOOD I would say up until 

Revelation 12 which ends with the dragon providing the beast with his power, causing the beasts ascension from the sea in Revelation 13, is in retrospect to the beasts ascension in Revelation 11:7.


And when you get to PLEASE PUT IN YOUR WORDS INPLACE OF MINE SO I CAN FOLLOW YOUR PATH.  I PUT MINE IN SO YOU UNDERSTAND WHY I DON'T YOURS.  

 

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

THE BEGINNING OF THE LORDS DAY/MILLENNIUM/1000 YEARS

Revelation 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Revelation 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

I UNDERSTAND THIS TO BE AT THE END OF THE LORDS DAY WHEN THE FINAL BATTLE BEFORE THE LAKE OF FIRE IS TO TAKE PLACE

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

THAT IS THE LAKE OF FIRE

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

THAT IS THE WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT COMING DOWN TO EARTH TO ACCOMPLISH THAT STUFF. 


THANK YOU AGAIN....D

Hi again DeighAnn,

In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 we see the Lord returning with those who were asleep in Him, who have been caught up with Him. In 1 Thessalonians 4:17 we then see the living on earth who are Christs caught up alongside their brethren who had earlier been caught up. There is an obvious time interval between the two.

If we then correlate the description of those who are caught up at Christs return in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 with those who are caught up in Revelation 12; the man child who is caught up just prior to when the 42 month tribulation commences would represent those who are asleep in Christ, while the remnant offspring with whom Satan goes off to make war with in Rev 12:17 during the 42 month tribulation would represent the remnant who are Christs who are still alive during the GT.

[luigi]

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi again, 

I have to tell you,  I believe that the moment this flesh body dies, the REAL WE,  our spirit/soul/and now celestial body go IMMEDIATELY to paradise.  

Jesus said to the thief TODAY you will.....

That is not a 'today' that comes over 2000 years later.  

And all those WHO have been born and have died over the past 2000 plus years have have gone back to God.  

 and that is the simple reason they return.  That is all Pauls writings tell us there. 

Scriptures that lead this way

 

Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

Luke 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Luke 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

Luke 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.


 

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

Colossians 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,

Colossians 1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,

Colossians 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

DOESN'T SAY 'WHEN HEAVEN WILL COME TO EARTH' HOPE FOR THAT day, NO, HOPe FOR WHAT IS LAID UP IN HEAVEN NOW, THAT MANSION, THAT PLACE WHERE CHRIST IS, THAT PLACE WE GO SO THAT WE MAY BE WHERE HE IS AND NOT SLEEPING/dead IN A HOLE IN THE GROUND.



DO THE HEATHEN THINK THAT DEATH IS DYING AND BEING BURIED IN A GRAVE?  YES, THEY DO.  BUT WE ARE NOT TO THINK LIKE THAT.  
 

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

SHALL NEVER SLEEP/DIE.  

BELIEVEST THOU THIS???????

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life;

and I will raise him up at the last day.

My dads last day came 6 years ago.  My husbands 4.  I don't know when or even IF I will have one,  but I do know that on the last day whether it be the last day for just me and however many others

or if that last day will be the day Christ returns and I am changed, that I SHALL NEVER DIE/SLEEP. IF THAT day comes before the last day of this age of ages, I know I will be up in paradise talking to someone with a similar story to this mans

 

Revelation 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

John was talking with an angel who was already risen who tells John I AM OF THY BREATHREN THE PROPHETS AND THEM WHICH KEEP THE SAYINGS OF THIS BOOK.  THAT WAS OVER 2OOO YEARS AGO.  

There are so many more verses that tell us SATAN DID NOT GET TO KEEP CONTROL OVER 'THE DEAD' ONCE CHRIST BECAME ONE OF THEM.  HE HANDED THOSE KEYS OVER FOR EVER.  Oh, if only he could have read with understanding.  I say that because then THE LAST DAY for all would have taken place back then but what would have happened to the sins of the world?  IDK.  

THESE are the truths that set us free and bring us peace and help us recognize the power of the Lord.  We not only receive blessings LATER, they are all around us every day while we walk in this flesh.  Want more??  Start giving thanks for all the ones you experience right now.  You will be very surprised at the peace and joy to be found even in what may seem like the most perilous of times.  

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

D

In Revelation 6:9-11, when the Lord opens the fifth seal, the souls of those who have been slain for the Word of God are told to continue to rest a little while longer until the number of their brethren who are to be slain as they have been should be complete. These saints are sleeping until the devil is kicked out from heaven, at which time they are caught up to Christ in heaven, when salvation and strength, and the kingdom of God with Christs power comes to them (Revelation 12:10-11). On earth on the other hand, great woe is pronounced to commence to all flesh on land and sea, due to the devils great wrath, knowing that the time remaining to him is short (Revelation 12:12), the 42 months.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11  And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

[luigi]

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Scripture please.  

 

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, WHO WAS TO RULE ALL NATIONS WITH A ROD OF IRON and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

WHO IS THIS EXACTLY AND NO ONE NOR A COMPOSITE OF MANY?  
 

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Revelation 19:13 And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:15 And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:16 And He hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.


LET THERE BE NO QUESTION WHO WAS THE MAN CHILD CAUGHT UP TO GOD,


                         THIS IS SCRIPTURE INTREPRETING SCRIPTURE

AN AS SUCH WE CAN NOT TOUCH IT WITH ANY OTHER MEANING BECAUSE

                  ANY OTHER MEANING WOULD BE OF OUR OWN MAKING.  

BUT I 100% agree with the rest, the remnant who have not been deceived, who have not been unfaithful, who have not taken the mark of the beast, who have stood, endured to the end, overcome, withstood the fiery darts of Satan, remained virgins by having enough oil in their lamps because they have put on the gospel armor, will be changed to be forever with the Lord and to reign and rule with Him judging the angels (all souls) for the 1000 years Satan will be bound and sealed up in the pit. D

You know,  I feel like I am missing something you are trying to tell me, if so I am sorry but want to let you know God will let me see it when it is time.  Just don't want you walking away feeling frustrated cause I am not getting it.  Probably super simple too.  

If you are going to set in stone that every thing from 4 on is only prophecy then you are going to need to go all the way back to 

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Revelation 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Meaning ALL of it is prophecy.  But even in telling of future events background info is sometimes mandatory for the understanding.  We can't understand any END without knowing the BEGINNING.  Just saying...

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Revelation 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Revelation 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

Revelation 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Revelation 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

 

DeighAnn, The man child is caught up to God in Revelation 12:5. War then develops in heaven in Revelation 12:7, at which time the devil and his angels are defeated and are cast out unto the earth in Revelation 12:8-9. This is a super basic sequential series of events description, how can you not see this?

As for the one who is to rule the nations with a rod of iron; those who are Christs are to become one with Him and the Father, and together as one are to rule the nations with a rod of iron (Revelation 2:26-27).

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, luigi said:

DeighAnn, The man child is caught up to God in Revelation 12:5. War then develops in heaven in Revelation 12:7, at which time the devil and his angels are defeated and are cast out unto the earth in Revelation 12:8-9. This is a super basic sequential series of events description, how can you not see this?

As for the one who is to rule the nations with a rod of iron; those who are Christs are to become one with Him and the Father, and together as one are to rule the nations with a rod of iron (Revelation 2:26-27).

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Hi Luigi,  I didn't notice any comment on what I put forth about scripture interpreting scripture on who the man child is.  I will go back and read again.  

I do not understand how you can place time intervals in some places while at the others say there can be none.  THIS is what I need  you to explain.  HOW DID YOU DECIDE this is and that isn't.  

Thank you, hope to hear answers to those questions.  D

[luigi]

On 7/18/2021 at 12:28 PM, DeighAnn said:

Hi Luigi,  I didn't notice any comment on what I put forth about scripture interpreting scripture on who the man child is.  I will go back and read again.  

I do not understand how you can place time intervals in some places while at the others say there can be none.  THIS is what I need  you to explain.  HOW DID YOU DECIDE this is and that isn't.  

Thank you, hope to hear answers to those questions.  D

I don't know what further to explain DeighAnn; to me the sequence of time from when the man child is caught up in Revelation 12, just prior to the start of the beasts reign to when the saints who are living are caught up at the end of the beasts reign is apparent. I guess it boils down to a matter of perspective, where if we have been taught to believe something, some will continue to adhere to their dogmas, even if it clashes with what is clearly spelled out in the Word.

One last question: Why mention the dead who are asleep in Christ will precede the living in Christ being caught up, if the time interval between the two events is only moments, minutes, or even hours? Doesn't make much sense to me, if it were such a small interval in time.

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, luigi said:

I don't know what further to explain DeighAnn; to me the sequence of time from when the man child is caught up in Revelation 12, just prior to the start of the beasts reign to when the saints who are living are caught up at the end of the beasts reign is apparent. I guess it boils down to a matter of perspective, where if we have been taught to believe something, some will continue to adhere to their dogmas, even if it clashes with what is clearly spelled out in the Word.

One last question: Why mention the dead who are asleep in Christ will precede the living in Christ being caught up, if the time interval between the two events is only moments, minutes, or even hours? Doesn't make much sense to me, if it were such a small interval in time.

Hi Luigi, 

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him,
What happens to them WHEN CHRIST RETURNS?  What effect does it have?  Do they live through it or what?  And what scriptures do you use.  


WE know that to be absent from the body is to be with the Lord.  So we know those who have gone to sleep/died have gone on to be with the Lord and will be returning with Him, part of that huge army.  


We also know that those who have endured to the end, have not been deceived, have not taken the mark of the beast and who will be ALWAYS with the Lord having been left alive and remaining unto His return and changed.  

THAT maybe OR MAYBE NOT?? be truth to you.  So my question is


WHAT happens to 'the world' of people worshipping the beast???

SO, 

Are you saying the 'dead' are those who have 'fallen asleep' and will be returning with the Lord

or 

Are you saying the 'dead' are those who have fallen asleep and are still in a hole in the ground 'asleep/dead' and are going to come up out of their graves

or

Are you saying the 'dead' are those who were 'spiritually dead' aka followed after Satan aka were deceived those had the mark of the beast and
DROPPED physically dead at the same time the Brightness of Christ destroyed Satan and were raised PRIOR to those who will be ever with the Lord.   

  D

[Charlie744]

On 7/17/2021 at 5:20 PM, DeighAnn said:

Hi again, 

I have to tell you,  I believe that the moment this flesh body dies, the REAL WE,  our spirit/soul/and now celestial body go IMMEDIATELY to paradise.  

Jesus said to the thief TODAY you will.....

That is not a 'today' that comes over 2000 years later.  

And all those WHO have been born and have died over the past 2000 plus years have have gone back to God.  

 and that is the simple reason they return.  That is all Pauls writings tell us there. 

Scriptures that lead this way

 

Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

Luke 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Luke 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

Luke 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.


 

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

Colossians 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,

Colossians 1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,

Colossians 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

DOESN'T SAY 'WHEN HEAVEN WILL COME TO EARTH' HOPE FOR THAT day, NO, HOPe FOR WHAT IS LAID UP IN HEAVEN NOW, THAT MANSION, THAT PLACE WHERE CHRIST IS, THAT PLACE WE GO SO THAT WE MAY BE WHERE HE IS AND NOT SLEEPING/dead IN A HOLE IN THE GROUND.



DO THE HEATHEN THINK THAT DEATH IS DYING AND BEING BURIED IN A GRAVE?  YES, THEY DO.  BUT WE ARE NOT TO THINK LIKE THAT.  
 

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

SHALL NEVER SLEEP/DIE.  

BELIEVEST THOU THIS???????

John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life;

and I will raise him up at the last day.

My dads last day came 6 years ago.  My husbands 4.  I don't know when or even IF I will have one,  but I do know that on the last day whether it be the last day for just me and however many others

or if that last day will be the day Christ returns and I am changed, that I SHALL NEVER DIE/SLEEP. IF THAT day comes before the last day of this age of ages, I know I will be up in paradise talking to someone with a similar story to this mans

 

Revelation 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

John was talking with an angel who was already risen who tells John I AM OF THY BREATHREN THE PROPHETS AND THEM WHICH KEEP THE SAYINGS OF THIS BOOK.  THAT WAS OVER 2OOO YEARS AGO.  

There are so many more verses that tell us SATAN DID NOT GET TO KEEP CONTROL OVER 'THE DEAD' ONCE CHRIST BECAME ONE OF THEM.  HE HANDED THOSE KEYS OVER FOR EVER.  Oh, if only he could have read with understanding.  I say that because then THE LAST DAY for all would have taken place back then but what would have happened to the sins of the world?  IDK.  

THESE are the truths that set us free and bring us peace and help us recognize the power of the Lord.  We not only receive blessings LATER, they are all around us every day while we walk in this flesh.  Want more??  Start giving thanks for all the ones you experience right now.  You will be very surprised at the peace and joy to be found even in what may seem like the most perilous of times.  

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

D

Hi DeighAnn, I just was reading a few responses between you and Luigi and noticed the above reply from you ..... I just wanted to select two comments you included in the above and wanted to ask you about... or any one ...

 

 

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

 

First, just using the above 4  verses (and there are so many more that speak to this subject in the Scriptures), you interpret Luke 43 that there is a comma before the two words "To day"....... Now we both know there are no such marks in the Tanach so what if the comma WERE to be placed AFTER "To day"?  Jesus would be telling the thief that He is telling him today.... he will be with Him in paradise?

And even without considering all the other "sleep" verses in the Scriptures, if we just look at the 3 verses in John above it might / should be telling us that Jesus is going somewhere to build places for us and will come back again to take us with Him there..... In other words, at the time of death we are NOT taken to Him but are still asleep until He comes back...

 

Just my thoughts, Charlie

 

 

[luigi]

5 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi Luigi, 

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him,
What happens to them WHEN CHRIST RETURNS?  What effect does it have?  Do they live through it or what?  And what scriptures do you use.  


WE know that to be absent from the body is to be with the Lord.  So we know those who have gone to sleep/died have gone on to be with the Lord and will be returning with Him, part of that huge army.  


We also know that those who have endured to the end, have not been deceived, have not taken the mark of the beast and who will be ALWAYS with the Lord having been left alive and remaining unto His return and changed.  

THAT maybe OR MAYBE NOT?? be truth to you.  So my question is


WHAT happens to 'the world' of people worshipping the beast???

SO, 

Are you saying the 'dead' are those who have 'fallen asleep' and will be returning with the Lord

or 

Are you saying the 'dead' are those who have fallen asleep and are still in a hole in the ground 'asleep/dead' and are going to come up out of their graves

or

Are you saying the 'dead' are those who were 'spiritually dead' aka followed after Satan aka were deceived those had the mark of the beast and
DROPPED physically dead at the same time the Brightness of Christ destroyed Satan and were raised PRIOR to those who will be ever with the Lord.   

  D

The scriptures I used to explain the dead in Christ not yet having been raised with Christ presently is Revelation 6:9-11, where those who have died for their faith in Christ are currently under the alter. I presented this to you in an earlier post.

And yes, those who have died for their testimony in Christ who are presently under the alter in Revelation 6:9-11 will be resurrected with their brethren who are to be killed as they have been, who shall all return with Christ.

Edited July 21, 2021 by luigi