Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[Linkin]

A little more to consider.

Hosea 5:14 For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
like a great lion to Judah.
I will tear [*them] to pieces and go away;
I will carry them off, with no one to rescue them.
15 Then I will return to my lair
until they have borne their guilt
and seek my face —
in their misery
they will earnestly seek me. ”

*[Them is not in the original text, but added by translators]

Hosea 6:1“Come, let us return to the LORD.
He has torn us to pieces
but he will heal us;
he has injured us
but he will bind up our wounds.
2 After two days he will revive us;
on the third day he will restore us,
that we may live in his presence.

 

I WILL GO AWAY and return to My place [i.e. heaven]...He will revive us AFTER TWO DAYS... that WE MAY LIVE BEFORE HIM. [Hosea 5:15-6:2] Jesus quotes from this passage and applies the phrase ''I will go away'' to His ascension: I GO AWAY....where I am going [i.e. heaven] you cannot come. [John 8:21]
 

2029 will be 2000 years [2 days] since Christ went away to heaven.
Jesus returns after 2 Days & on the 3rd day
Exodus 19:11 and be ready by the third day, because on that day the LORD will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people.

Matthew 24:30Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
 

 

*A day is 1000 years

Genesis 2v17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.”

Adam did not live beyond a day [1000 years] but died at 930 years. None of Adam's descendants have lived beyond a day.

Psalm 90v4 A thousand years in your sight
    are like a day that has just gone by,
    or like a watch in the night.

[LGV] 2 Peter 3v5 For they are willingly oblivious to this: that the skies continued from antiquity, and the land out from water and by water having been upheld by the announcement42 of God, 6 through which [announcement] the existing order was destroyed. 7 And the present skies and land, having been set aside by the same announcement, 43 are reserved for fire until the Day of Justice and the destruction of ungodly men.44 8 Yet, do not miss this one thing: that one day with the Master is as a thousand years,45 and a thousand years as one day.

 

42 In Gen. 6:3 God announced to Noah that he was delaying mankind’s judgment for 120 years. This announcement withheld the judgment of the flood for the predetermined time (while Noah prepared the ark), but also brought the judgment at the appointed time 120 years later.

 

43 The literal meaning of Peter’s statement is that the very same announcement that God made to Noah (that judgment would come for man in 120 years) not only withheld God’s judgment of the flood until the end of the specified time, but the same statement also indicates the time of the second destruction by fire. Genesis 6:3 has a dual meaning, predicting the first destruction by flood in 120 solar years, and the second destruction by fire in 120 Jubilee years (6000 years from creation). A Jubilee year occurs every 50th year (Lev. 25).

44 Isa. 66:24; 2 Thess. 1:7-10

45 This is a paraphrase of Psalm 90:4, which reads in the LXX, “because a thousand years in Your eyes are like the day, yesterday which passes by...” This statement was inferred from God’s threat to Adam that “in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die” (Gen. 2:17), because “In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.” (Gen 3:19). Adam returned to dust in the same ‘day’ (millennium) that he ate the forbidden fruit at the age of 930 (Gen. 5:5). None of Adam’s descendants’ lives have exceeded “one day” (1000 years) in God’s reckoning

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Linkin

[Linkin]

On 6/15/2022 at 3:45 PM, transmogrified said:

7 And he (Messiah the Prince) shall confirm the (Davidic) covenant with many for one week (7 years):

It's not the Davidic covenant. It's the Mosaic covenant. Leviticus 26

 

God promised Israel what He would do if Israel kept His statutes, commandments and Sabbaths. Lev 26:1-13

He [God] then warned them what He would do if they did not. Lev 26:14-38.

God Remembers Those Who Repent Lev 26;40-46

Read Daniel's Prayer in Dan. 9:4-19

 

^{Daniel 9:11}All Israel has transgressed your law and turned away, refusing to obey you.

“Therefore the curses and sworn judgments written in the Law of Moses, the servant of God, have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Linkin]

On 6/15/2022 at 3:45 PM, transmogrified said:

he (Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations

''He'' Is not in the original text, but added by translators. However the verb is in the third person.

It is NOT the Messiah who causes the abomination of Desolation. That statement is ridiculous.

 

[Linkin]

Regarding The Rapture, Keep in mind:

No one but Jesus has ascended to heaven John 3:13. Written as an editorial comment by John decades after most if not all the apostles [except John obviously] had died.

John 7v33 Therefore Jesus said
to them, “I am with you still a little time, and I am going away to the one having sent Me.155 34 You will search for Me and will not find Me, and where I am you are powerless156 to come.”

 

155 Here Jesus first announced His going away to the sky during the fall Feasts, six months before His crucifixion. His going away was in fulfillment of Psalm 110:1 and Hosea 5:14-15. The fall feasts (beginning
with Rosh Hashannah) marks the end of the sixty-nine “weeks” of Daniel’s prophecy (Dan. 9:24-27), after
which Messiah would be “cut off.”

156 They were powerless to ascend to the sky. Yet Jesus told His disciples that they also were powerless to ascend to the sky (John 13:33), because the “Son of Man” is the only person to ascend there (John 3:13).

 

Ascension to Heaven is Greek Mythology/Platonism, not Biblical teaching.

Our Hope is the Resurrection, not ascending to heaven.

1 Cor. 1212 Yet if the Anointed is proclaimed that He was aroused out from among the dead, how are some among you claiming that resurrection of the dead does not exist?283 13 But if resurrection of the dead does not exist neither has the Anointed been aroused. 14 And if the Anointed has not been aroused our proclamation is empty and your trust is empty. 15 And we are also discovered [as] false witnesses of God because we testified against God that He aroused the Anointed whom He did not arouse if it is so that the dead are not aroused. 16 For if the dead are not aroused neither has the Anointed been aroused, 17 and if the Anointed has not been aroused, your trust is empty and you are still in your sins. 18 Also, in consequence, the ones who fell asleep in the Anointed have already perished.284 19 If we have hoped exclusively in the Anointed285 in this life, we are most pitiful of all men!

 

283 The Greek mind had great difficulty accepting the concept of the resurrection of the flesh. They had been steeped in Plato’s “immortality of the soul” doctrine and his claim that the flesh was the “prison of the soul,” and that all physical substance was inherently corrupt. To the Greeks, escaping the body of flesh and ascending into the “celestial spheres” as pure “spirit” was the goal. Consequently, the idea of the resurrection of the flesh meant permanent imprisonment in inherently corrupt matter, and permanent confinement to this material creation.

284 Note the perfect tense. If Paul and the other Emissaries of Jesus were indeed mistaken about His resurrection, then believers who have died in the hope of following Jesus in their own bodily resurrection have already perished. Note that Paul did not allow for another possibility, that their souls were immortal and continued to live on outside the body. This is strong evidence that he did not believe in the “immortality of the soul.” Either believers died in the true hope of following Jesus in resurrection, or they already perished. Paul allowed no other option. 285 If the Emissaries of Jesus have placed all their hope in a mistaken belief that Jesus was resurrected, and face severe persecution and even martyrdom on account of their false testimony and mistaken belief, they are indeed pitiful men.

Raised on the last day

John 6:44, Daniel 12:2, dan 12:13 etc.

Job does not see God until he is resurrected in the flesh.

Job 19:25-26

I know that my redeemer  lives,

and that in the end he will stand on the earth. 

26 And after my skin has been destroyed,

yet in my flesh I will see God;

See also: Psalm 6:5, 17:14, 90:3, 104:29, 115:17-18

Isaiah 26:19, 

Eccles. 9:3-6, 9:10

Acts 2:34

Job:7-21, 34:14

 

Our inheritance is the LAND as promised to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob.

It is the promise to our Master Jesus by His Father, Psalm 2:7

 

7I will proclaim the Lord’s decree:

He said to me, “You are my son;

today I have become your father.

8Ask me,

and I will make the nations your inheritance,

the ends of the earth your possession.

9You will break them with a rod of iron ;

you will dash them to pieces like pottery.”

[Sister]

 Daniel 8:23   And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

  Daniel 8:24   And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

  Daniel 8:25   And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Why is he destroying the Holy people if they have already been raptured? 

1+1=2

[farouk]

20 hours ago, Sister said:

 Daniel 8:23   And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

  Daniel 8:24   And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

  Daniel 8:25   And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Why is he destroying the Holy people if they have already been raptured? 

1+1=2

Hi @Sister Maybe there is more clarity if it is seen that Israel and the church in Scripture are distinct?

[Sister]

6 minutes ago, farouk said:

Hi @Sister Maybe there is more clarity if it is seen that Israel and the church in Scripture are distinct?

Hello farouk

Anyone who follows God's commandments, is considered holy.  Israel has yet to know their true Messiah.  He will be revealed to them at his return, on that actual day he comes and delivers them from their enemies.

The point I was making is that during the 5th seal, after the beast is given power there is no secret rapture, but persecution on God's holy people instead.  It's quite clear that no rapture has taken place or else there would be no holy people left to persecute. 

 

Here are the holy people;

 1 John 4:2   Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

  1 John 4:3   And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

 

 

[farouk]

2 minutes ago, Sister said:

Hello farouk

Anyone who follows God's commandments, is considered holy.  Israel has yet to know their true Messiah.  He will be revealed to them at his return, on that actual day he comes and delivers them from their enemies.

The point I was making is that during the 5th seal, after the beast is given power there is no secret rapture, but persecution on God's holy people instead.  It's quite clear that no rapture has taken place or else there would be no holy people left to persecute. 

 

Here are the holy people;

 1 John 4:2   Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

  1 John 4:3   And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

 

 

John's Epistle is very searching. His readers in the church would likely come from both Jewish and Gentile backgrounds

[Sister]

1 hour ago, farouk said:

John's Epistle is very searching. His readers in the church would likely come from both Jewish and Gentile backgrounds

Yes they would but they would all be one in Christ where it doesn't matter if one is Jew or Gentile.  The 'holy people' are the ones who are doing God's commandments and that has to include accepting Christ, which is a new commandment.

2 Timothy 3:12   Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Sister

[WilliamL]

On 11/28/2022 at 11:01 PM, Sister said:

 Daniel 8:23   And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

  Daniel 8:24   And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

  Daniel 8:25   And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Why is he destroying the Holy people if they have already been raptured? 

1+1=2

These passages speak of Antiochus Epiphanes, and not the End Times.

Daniel 8:19 …אֲשֶׁר־/what יִהְיֶה/shall happen בְּאַחֲרִית/in the latter (part/time) of הַזָּעַם/the fury/rage, כִּי/because [it is] לְמֹועֵד/for an appointed time קֵֽץ/of an end.

“…what shall happen in the latter part of the fury, because it is for an appointed time of an end.”

Again, the Hebrew does not say, as this is generally mistranslated, “at the appointed time (shall be) the end.” Like with verse 17, nothing of this event relates to our day either. To give a similar example, Daniel 11:29 prophesies “at the appointed time he [Antiochus] shall return and go toward the south,” but that “appointed time” prophecy was fulfilled in 168 B.C.

Daniel 8:23 וּֽבְאַחֲרִית/And in the latter (part/time) מַלְכוּתָם/of malkutham/their kingdom, כְּהָתֵם/while bringing to fullness [Hiphil Infin. with prefixכ: “while, when”] הַפֹּשְׁעִים/the transgressing/rebelling ones [Qal Active Participle, plural], מֶלֶךְ/a king יַעֲמֹד/shall arise…

“And in the latter part of their kingdom, while the rebelling ones/transgressors are bringing to fullness their apostasy, a king shall arise…”

These three verses, 8:17, 19, 23, are where translators and commentators often go astray, imposing words and understanding not expressed in the Hebrew. In these and similar Hebrew prophetic texts, a common default presumption of translators has been that every “time of an end,” “Day of the LORD,” and “latter day/time” must refer to the end of OUR age. This is not true at all: there have been many “ends” of kingdoms and eras prophesied that have already come to pass. ...

Daniel 8:23 defines the very era of the 2300-day abasement of Jerusalemʼs Temple: “in the latter part/time of their [the Greek] kingdom.” By 168 B.C., only the significantly-diminished Seleucid and Ptolemaic kingdoms remained out of Alexanderʼs once vast empire. Therefore, the “fierce king” and ha-poshim/“the rebelling ones” of verse 23 can only be Antiochus Epiphanes and the Jewish apostates, respectively. All of the verses from 8:23-28 prophesy about the qualities and acts of Antiochus: they do not prophesy about OUR times.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1576-part-2-conclusion/