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Defense of the Post Trib Rapture


George

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7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

We do pick up our cross and follow Him

We do suffer tribulation

We do endure to the end

All Believers since Pentecost

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

We do remain barren to the end

We don't look to save our lives

We try to bear fruit, some ten fold, some one hundred fold

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

We remain as sheep to the slaughter

When Christ returns Satan is bound and the 1000 years stays the 1000 years and we don't seek to change the time

We follow the examples set for us

We do labor and not faint and keep His name to the end

Again all Believers since Pentecost

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

We continue to do the first works, spread the good news to the end

We do overcome and keep His works to the end

We don't fear the first death we don't fear the things we will suffer

We will remain faithful, even to the death of us

Again all Believers since Pentecost.  Most have made it to their end.  No 70th Week, no seeing A/C or the False Prophet, none seeing the Wrath of God first hand; none needing to flee to the mountains. Yet some were hanged upside down, boiled in oil, sawed in two, stoned to death; what manner of death will we have; Pancreatic Cancer, Melanoma (two very painful deaths), Vehicle death, name it, we can die of it.  And yet all these N.T. Believers made it to the end.  No one was left out, they all receive will their rewards.

Yet Post-Trib Believers think they have to through one more test, then one more test, then one more test.  Those Believers who have already died; all made it through to their last test.  No guarantee past today; only wishful thinking.  No other test may come for many.  If one is Worthy Now, no one can know if or when another test may happen for them. Again wishful thinking.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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20 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Yet some were hanged upside down, boiled in oil, sawed in two, stoned to death; what manner of death will we have; Pancreatic Cancer, Melanoma (two very painful deaths), Vehicle death, name it, we can die of it.  And yet all these N.T. Believers made it to the end.  No one was left out, they all receive will their rewards.

Yet Post-Trib Believers think they have to through one more test, then one more test, then one more test.  Those Believers who have already died; all made it through to their last test.  No guarantee past today; only wishful thinking.  No other test may come for many.  If one is Worthy Now, no one can know if or when another test may happen for them. Again wishful thinking.

Now you get it. 

WHAT EVER THE COURSE set before us is the course we live and die and NOTHING stops US FROM BEING PROVED until that DEATH.    


God DOESN'T pick A SINGLE GENERATION and then treat them COMPLETELY DIFFERENT because Satan is coming in PERSON, since hes been INFLUENCING all this time just NOT BEEN SEEN. 


You know we ..walk through the shadow of death I WILL FEAR NO EVIL, FOR THOU ART WITH ME.... 

the devil roams around SEEKING...

prince of the power of the air...

the white horse sent out to overcome who is overcoming...

If the 'church' hasn't made use of ALL THE ARMOR GOD IS PROVIDING us in these last days, THAT IS ON it, NOT GOD.  

So WHY would everyone else have to MAKE IT TO THE END OF THEIR LIVES

but those who believe in the doctrine don't have to?   What about the great trib is going to be worse than

"Yet some were hanged upside down, boiled in oil, sawed in two, stoned to death; what manner of death will we have; Pancreatic Cancer, Melanoma (two very painful deaths), Vehicle death, name it, we can die of it."


Why WAS IT OK for all those to suffer till they died BUT NOT  a  specific generation of THE 'CHURCH'?   How would THAT BE JUST?  The CHURCH has always been suffering, so why would that become tooo much all of a sudden?   

How would it be if I got ripped apart and eaten by a lion for GODS NAME SAKE

and then, as I wait under the altar,  I see you 'raptured' just before you were going to suffer some tribulation of your own?   And not just you but billions of souls?

TELL ME how would GOD justify THAT?  


But you are right about one thing, any of us can be seeing the LORD at any minute, just like EVERY SAVED SOUL that has died has. 

BUT, if you are BEATING up on the servants of God, or BOASTING against the branches, He is coming as a thief in the night and sure, you just may make it, but it ain't gonna be pretty....


but THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PRE TRIB RAPTURE.    


then again, NOTHING DOES. 

So to keep arguing over all these things THAT AREN'T WRITTEN that no one agrees upon even those who believe it that has no rules that makes no sense that makes void the words of God like crazy


and I will KEEP PUTTING FORTH WHAT IS WRITTEN PROVING WHAT THE DOCTRINE CLAIMS IS FALSE.   

The doctrine can keep adjusting as it learns its flaws, NO LONGER DO WE hear about FLYING AWAY, but it was all the rage at the beginning, wasn't it?  WE WILL DO THAT WITH EVERY POINT things 

like THE MADE UP 'CHURCH AGE' SO THE DOCTRINE HAS an end IT CAN 'GET TO' and leave the real end for the TRIB SAINTS

like the MADE UP 'TRIB SAINTS' who are DENYING the FAITH now BUT WITH A SIGN BECOME GODS ELECT

like...all the rest...

getting to be less and less, and THAT IS THE GOAL So it DIES OUT before it takes hold of the next generation.  Did you know that some of the doctrine is claiming APOSTASY as the rapture???    

So thank you for the post anyhow. Maybe you could help some more and tell me in which one of these do I find 'the bride of Christ'.... in the manner the doctrine puts forth it to be


 

Isaiah 49:18
Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth.


Isaiah 61:10
I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.


Isaiah 62:5
For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.


Jeremiah 2:32
Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her attire? yet my people have forgotten me days without number.


Jeremiah 7:34
Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride: for the land shall be desolate.


Jeremiah 16:9
For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will cause to cease out of this place in your eyes, and in your days, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride.


Jeremiah 25:10
Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle.


Jeremiah 33:11
The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the voice of them that shall say, Praise the LORD of hosts: for the LORD is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: and of them that shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the LORD. For I will cause to return the captivity of the land, as at the first, saith the LORD.


Joel 2:16
Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.


John 3:29
He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.


Revelation 18:23
And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.


Revelation 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


Revelation 21:9
And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.


Revelation 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.





 

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On 9/8/2023 at 6:14 PM, Montana Marv said:

Post-Trib Believers think they have to through one more test, then one more test, then one more test.  Those Believers who have already died; all made it through to their last test.  No guarantee past today; only wishful thinking.

Huh? Explain why you say that "Post-Trib Believers think they have to through one more test, then one more test, then one more test." This is quite a slam, without any justification stated to back it up.

Edited by WilliamL
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1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Huh? Explain why you say that "Post-Trib Believers think they have to through one more test, then one more test, then one more test." This is quite a slam, without any justification stated to back it up.

If one has to make it through to the end of the 70th Week and go through the wrath of God just to prove that they are considered worthy in Christ Jesus, I see a salvation based on works. Just one more test. Yet all N.T. believers who have already died missed the opportunity of missing God's wrath on this earth and thus earning extra rewards. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

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47 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

If one has to make it through to the end of the 70th Week and go through the wrath of God just to prove that they are considered worthy in Christ Jesus, I see a salvation based on works.

One doesn't, because the 70th week has nothing to do with the End Times.

 

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24 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

One doesn't, because the 70th week has nothing to do with the End Times.

 


I have a few questions given that statement  (the conversions are for me to keep it straight)

First, why close up and seal up the words till the time of the end if it has nothing to do with the end time?     And why do you believe the same times are given both Daniel and Revelation?  


If what follows is not at the time of the end then when was it?  and what happened afterwards?

 

7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

3 1/2 years  equals 42 months
 

8And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?


9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

1290 days   equals  42.383 months



12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

1335 days   equals  43.861 months
 

13But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.



"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." Revelation 11:3 KJV

How long is 1260 days in months?
1260 days equals  41.397 months

Revelation 11:2 - But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 

Revelation 13:5 - And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 
 

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1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

One doesn't, because the 70th week has nothing to do with the End Times.

 

Then Daniel 9.24 has been fulfilled and Isreal is living a life of bliss because the Lord is their God.  And Israel is in the Land, and has anointed their King. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

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2 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

If one has to make it through to the end of the 70th Week and go through the wrath of God just to prove that they are considered worthy in Christ Jesus, I see a salvation based on works. Just one more test. Yet all N.T. believers who have already died missed the opportunity of missing God's wrath on this earth and thus earning extra rewards. 

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

IF ONE HAS TO MAKE IT THROUGH TO THE END??

Why do we have to do that?  BECAUSE God said IF WE WANT then we must and that is all the reason we need.  BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE CHURCH IS TOLD WILL BE NECESSARY.  IT'S THE DOCTRINE THAT TELLS YOU YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO, NOT THE WORDS OF GOD.  

to PROVE THAT

Because there was a rider on a white horse sent out to overcome and we are to be overcomers.... 

7He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.


10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.


17He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
 

25But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.



3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels.


10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


 

19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne,





even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

 

How did HE OVERCOME?  He picked up His cross and GAVE UP THE GHOST

so UNTIL WE have suffered unto death, we are STILL IN THE RACE.  

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3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels.

Did these individuals over come; Those of the 1st Centurey if so, it is not the end you are thinking of.

3 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Did these individuals over come, Those the 1st century.  And will they be a pillar in the temple of God.  If so, it is not the end you believe in.  They already overcame and made it.

Yet you say the end is the end of the 70th Week at the 2nd Coming.  Then all these of the 1st Century missed the boat, and you are the only one on it.  Interesting.  Only those who come out of the G.T. are on the boat.

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

7He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

So did these who over came in the 1st Century; will they partake of the Tree of Life.  You say one must reach the end which is after the 70th Week to be an overcomer.

Boy you leave a lot of people out with your Post Trib Garbage.  You have flushed everyone of the past overcomers down the toilet by not making it to your end.  In essence you are saying that the only way I can overcome, is if I make it through the G.T.  Sister, I have already overcome; isn't it about time for you to overcome, or are you postponing it for a future time.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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8 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Did these individuals over come; Those of the 1st Centurey if so, it is not the end you are thinking of.

Did these individuals over come, Those the 1st century.  And will they be a pillar in the temple of God.  If so, it is not the end you believe in.  They already overcame and made it.

Yet you say the end is the end of the 70th Week at the 2nd Coming.  Then all these of the 1st Century missed the boat, and you are the only one on it.  Interesting.  Only those who come out of the G.T. are on the boat.

So did these who over came in the 1st Century; will they partake of the Tree of Life.  You say one must reach the end which is after the 70th Week to be an overcomer.

Boy you leave a lot of people out with your Post Trib Garbage.  You have flushed everyone of the past overcomers down the toilet by not making it to your end.  In essence you are saying that the only way I can overcome, is if I make it through the G.T.  Sister, I have already overcome; isn't it about time for you to overcome, or are you postponing it for a future time.

In Christ

Montana Marv

BROTHER, I believe it is time for YOU to reacquaint yourself with the words of GOD and TAKE NOTE of how HE FEELS about the DOCTRINES or murmurings about FEARING WHAT GOD tells us not to fear. 

How many times are we told NOT TO FEAR...We have been given power over all of our enemies?  We are to be FAITHFUL even to death.  Have you died?  Then the race has not finished

I see the DOCTRINE AS falling DIRECTLY in step with these words of GOD.  Maybe once you read them you will REALIZE, the END has not yet come.  No matter WHAT you think you have OVERCOME already,

THE END DOES NOT COME UNTIL ALL THE BRETHREN HAVE OVERCOME. 


YOU seem to forget, ONE MANY MEMBERED BODY.  



6And Moses said unto the children of Gad and to the children of Reuben, Shall your brethren go to war, and shall ye sit here?

7And wherefore discourage ye the heart of the children of Israel from going over into the land which the LORD hath given them?

8Thus did your fathers, when I sent them from Kadeshbarnea to see the land.

9For when they went up unto the valley of Eshcol, and saw the land, they discouraged the heart of the children of Israel, that they should not go into the land which the LORD had given them.

10And the LORD'S anger was kindled the same time, and he sware, saying,

11Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me:

12Save Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite, and Joshua the son of Nun: for they have wholly followed the LORD.

13And the LORD'S anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the LORD, was consumed.

14And, behold, ye are risen up in your fathers' stead, an increase of sinful men, to augment yet the fierce anger of the LORD toward Israel.

15For if ye turn away from after him, he will yet again leave them in the wilderness; and ye shall destroy all this people.



 

 

15So I took the chief of your tribes, wise men, and known, and made them heads over you, captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, and captains over fifties, and captains over tens, and officers among your tribes.

16And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

17Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.

18And I commanded you at that time all the things which ye should do.

19And when we departed from Horeb, we went through all that great and terrible wilderness, which ye saw by the way of the mountain of the Amorites, as the LORD our God commanded us; and we came to Kadeshbarnea.

20And I said unto you, Ye are come unto the mountain of the Amorites, which the LORD our God doth give unto us.

21Behold, the LORD thy God hath set the land before thee: go up and possess it, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath said unto thee; fear not, neither be discouraged.

22And ye came near unto me every one of you, and said, We will send men before us, and they shall search us out the land, and bring us word again by what way we must go up, and into what cities we shall come.

23And the saying pleased me well: and I took twelve men of you, one of a tribe:

24And they turned and went up into the mountain, and came unto the valley of Eshcol, and searched it out.

25And they took of the fruit of the land in their hands, and brought it down unto us, and brought us word again, and said, It is a good land which the LORD our God doth give us.

26Notwithstanding ye would not go up, but rebelled against the commandment of the LORD your God:

27And ye murmured in your tents, and said, Because the LORD hated us, he hath brought us forth out of the land of Egypt, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorites, to destroy us.

28Whither shall we go up? our brethren have discouraged our heart, saying, The people is greater and taller than we; the cities are great and walled up to heaven; and moreover we have seen the sons of the Anakims there.


 

29Then I said unto you, Dread not, neither be afraid of them.

30The LORD your God which goeth before you, he shall fight for you, according to all that he did for you in Egypt before your eyes;

31And in the wilderness, where thou hast seen how that the LORD thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son, in all the way that ye went, until ye came into this place.

32Yet in this thing ye did not believe the LORD your God,

33Who went in the way before you, to search you out a place to pitch your tents in, in fire by night, to shew you by what way ye should go, and in a cloud by day.

34And the LORD heard the voice of your words, and was wroth, and sware, saying,

35Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers,

36Save Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him will I give the land that he hath trodden upon, and to his children, because he hath wholly followed the LORD.

 

God is the same TODAY...AND what is the MESSAGE given TO THE CHURCHES????


 

8And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;

He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.


ONE BODY, "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Matthew 25:40 KJV

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