Why Resurrection?

[DeighAnn]

10 minutes ago, Alive said:

Look at the parallel in Luke.

²⁶ Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ ²⁷ But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’     In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out. ²⁹ And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and recline at table in the kingdom of God. ³⁰ And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.”

Hi Alive,  

I have looked but I don't know what I am 'to see'.  I was going to hit the 'huh, I don't get it' but didn't want it to reflect on you as I am the one not understanding the point, if you could help me out here it would be much appreciated.... Thank you D

[Alive]

29 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi Alive,  

I have looked but I don't know what I am 'to see'.  I was going to hit the 'huh, I don't get it' but didn't want it to reflect on you as I am the one not understanding the point, if you could help me out here it would be much appreciated.... Thank you D

No big deal--its just like other scriptures that shed additional light on other scriptures. In this case, it helps to see who He was referring to.

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Wrong. He is many for we are His Body and the church is multiplied over and over. He was the actual first fruit of MANY. We are the new TEMPLE..

He is the first and the last.

You cannot be like him, because he was like that before he died. 

You read the Gospel.

Why can't you see it? 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Dennis1209]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi Dennis,  

Did you, in your studies, ever look at it from the point of view that the sons of God were rejoicing when God was creating the earth along with 

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (the 'image'/spirit body)

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Let us, as in God and the Word, ONE.  So OUR likeness would mean more than one likeness.  Who else was there but the sons of God?  

So God made the FLESH SONS OF GOD in the very image of the SPIRITUAL SONS OF GOD which would perfectly fit  after OUR LIKENESS.  A likeness that was then, that is now, and that will be. 
(the 'will be' will be except for the 'defects' of the flesh so that the 'perfectness' of our spiritual bodies is what is raised and will continue on.  No tall, short, thin, fat, blind deaf dumb paralyzed disease free  - be that emotional mental whatever, THERE WILL BE NO EXCUSES AS TO WHY the correct decisions were not made come judgment day, God will have been JUST.  Equal playing fields for all.  Not a respecter of persons.)   Everyone their most perfect selves - INCORRUPTIBLE   - (yet the seed of this age we sow/plant may become even better possibly)

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his (mans') own image, in the image of God created he him (Emmanuel, the Messiah); male and female created he them (man) .

MAN in HIS OWN IMAGE, CHRIST in the EXACT image of God (if you have seen ME you have seen the Father, something none of us can say) 

We all look in a mirror and see the image of OURSELVES. Of course we could change that 'images' to form and whatever other definition we would want to use but for me again, The simplest explanation is always the preferable. 

I am just saying that TO ME, is seems much more likely that God was talking to those sons of God who were present with Him, hence all our individual differences



Some say that the 'heavenly' spirits or angels don't have bodies even though God clearly tells us we do or else how could the sons of God be SHOUTING FOR JOY?  
People make it so complicated when it is so simple.  

Doesn't this easily explain why we all look different from one another and from Christ and how the rich man knows it was Lazarus in Abrahams bosom.  We will all be judged and our works do follow us, so how if we aren't the WE there that we are here, would our works know where to go?   Why would God give us eyes to see?

Even Moses and Elijah were recognized centuries later in the transfiguration.  (The Apostles couldn't have recognized them IF they hadn't know them from sometime BEFORE could they?  They certainly didn't know them from centuries earlier having not been born so when does that leave?  When the earth was being created and all the SONS OF GOD....(NO more wondering about how Satan as Satan already wound up in the garden either)  
 

Matthew 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus speaking as if THEY are all alive and living as the PEOPLE/SOULS just all regular and stuff.  Same ole same ole.  

any good thoughts?   If so, please let me know....D
 

 

Hello DeighAnn. This is an interesting and thought provoking topic. As always, I don't claim to be correct in all of my theology and hermeneutics. As with everyone else, it's what and how I interpret and understand. In no way do I want to convince anyone I have the correct view. To respond and comment on my thoughts, I would have to explain and document a number of relative terms, references, word meanings, theology, grammar context, etc. That's too much work. I have a bunch of boring notes I could copy and paste, but will not.

I'd have to precisely define what it means to be an imager of God. Briefly, it's not a set of some attributes, abilities or gifts. To explain the preceding, I'd have to begin and delve into: Genesis 1:26 (KJV) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. [emphasis mine]. Humanity is separate and distinct from the animal kingdom, and was placed over it. "Dominion" can be looked at as a 'job' and assignment.

All three Persons of the Trinity are One God [no one is capable of comprehending that]; co-equal, omnipresent, omniscience and omnipotent. If the Trinity is talking between themselves, is the speaker telling the other two something they don't already know. The speaker of Gen. 1:26 thought of it first, and informed the other two Persons of the Godhead? That would not make any sense?

I don't think so, I think God is addressing a heavenly audience, about the action He is about to perform. Matthew 6:10 (KJV) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Some things on earth are patterned after the things in Heaven (Ark of the Covenant, Temple, Government, etc.). The Lord ordained government on earth (to punish evil and promote good). It is clear from the Bible there is also a heavenly government, or divine council if you will [IE. 1 Kings 22:19-23]. I suspect this is whom the Lord is speaking to in Gen. 1:26, the divine council. God allows participation in His heavenly government. As He will during the millennium and beyond [throne of David, kings & priests, etc.].

So, as you can see, approaching a topic with different baselines and interpretations is difficult. We could start of by precisely defining and listing, exactly what it means to be made in the image of God. Take into consideration, it would have to be exclusive to humanity. If you cite any attributes, think of what is also shared with the animal kingdom, and that's not exclusive. Are any animals created in God's image?

Do any, all or some animals have; spirits, nostrils & the breath of life; reasoning or instinct; critical thinking; ability to exhibit emotion and care, show and express pain and suffering, learn; to cite but a few examples. Therefore; our IMAGE cannot be any set of attributes, because we share some of them with the animal kingdom. 

My thought on the subject is; just like the word angel, is not personal or an attribute; but an assignment and job description, that of a messenger of God. I believe "image or imager" is also a title and job description. In the physical visual absence, or the presence of the Lord; we are His appointed representatives [kings] assigned to do His good will. 

Thou shalt not kill [murder]. That is not speaking of the animal kingdom, but another human being. Why? Killing another 'imager', in my opinion, in effigy it is paramount to directing it at God. 

Just my thoughts there DeighAnn, others mileage will greatly vary. 

 

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, Josheb said:

Do you think this spirit is a human spirit? 

Hi Josheb, 

Angel or human - same spirit/soul,  just different KIND of body.  

Our spirit placed by God in the womb is the 'who' we were/are/will be.  We are 'of' the earth right now because that is what we eat, eats and what we eat and what keeps us alive.    

Cast to the earth.  Not just from heavenly place but from heavenly body.  
And it repented God that he had made us so so we know He likes us in spiritual bodies better.  

  Hue - color of flesh - man.  

And the spirit returns to God who gave it.  Came from God, going back to God.   Different from the 'fallen' ones who instead of letting God place them where He wanted, THY WILL BE DONE, 
LEFT their (our) habitation without being born of water (woman).  THEY didn't get the 'memory' wipe that being born that way did us.  That is why they were so 'mighty' not just in strength but in evil knowledge.  That is why their kids were 'mutants'.  Strange flesh and earth flesh never supposed to mix.    

That is why I don't believe that the tribulation is longer that 'the hour'.  God doesn't mention any 'kids' being born when Satan and his are kicked to the earth.  We do know they will be taking and giving in marriage once again and if it were longer than that we would be having 'giants' born again.  Another reason we know Satan and his have not been cast to the earth yet.  

different realm/dimension.  In my understanding of Gods words.    D

 

[Justin Adams]

11 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

He is the first and the last.

You cannot be like him, because he was like that before he died. 

You read the Gospel.

Why can't you see it? 

He was fully human born of woman before He died. Then He was resurrected in a new and changed eternal body.

[DeighAnn]

7 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Hello DeighAnn. This is an interesting and thought provoking topic. As always, I don't claim to be correct in all of my theology and hermeneutics. As with everyone else, it's what and how I interpret and understand. In no way do I want to convince anyone I have the correct view. To respond and comment on my thoughts, I would have to explain and document a number of relative terms, references, word meanings, theology, grammar context, etc. That's too much work. I have a bunch of boring notes I could copy and paste, but will not.

I'd have to precisely define what it means to be an imager of God. Briefly, it's not a set of some attributes, abilities or gifts. To explain the preceding, I'd have to begin and delve into: Genesis 1:26 (KJV) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. [emphasis mine]. Humanity is separate and distinct from the animal kingdom, and was placed over it. "Dominion" can be looked at as a 'job' and assignment.

All three Persons of the Trinity are One God [no one is capable of comprehending that]; co-equal, omnipresent, omniscience and omnipotent. If the Trinity is talking between themselves, is the speaker telling the other two something they don't already know. The speaker of Gen. 1:26 thought of it first, and informed the other two Persons of the Godhead? That would not make any sense?

I don't think so, I think God is addressing a heavenly audience, about the action He is about to perform. Matthew 6:10 (KJV) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Some things on earth are patterned after the things in Heaven (Ark of the Covenant, Temple, Government, etc.). The Lord ordained government on earth (to punish evil and promote good). It is clear from the Bible there is also a heavenly government, or divine council if you will [IE. 1 Kings 22:19-23]. I suspect this is whom the Lord is speaking to in Gen. 1:26, the divine council. God allows participation in His heavenly government. As He will during the millennium and beyond [throne of David, kings & priests, etc.].

So, as you can see, approaching a topic with different baselines and interpretations is difficult. We could start of by precisely defining and listing, exactly what it means to be made in the image of God. Take into consideration, it would have to be exclusive to humanity. If you cite any attributes, think of what is also shared with the animal kingdom, and that's not exclusive. Are any animals created in God's image?

Do any, all or some animals have; spirits, nostrils & the breath of life; reasoning or instinct; critical thinking; ability to exhibit emotion and care, show and express pain and suffering, learn; to cite but a few examples. Therefore; our IMAGE cannot be any set of attributes, because we share some of them with the animal kingdom. 

My thought on the subject is; just like the word angel, is not personal or an attribute; but an assignment and job description, that of a messenger of God. I believe "image or imager" is also a title and job description. In the physical visual absence, or the presence of the Lord; we are His appointed representatives [kings] assigned to do His good will. 

Thou shalt not kill [murder]. That is not speaking of the animal kingdom, but another human being. Why? Killing another 'imager', in my opinion, in effigy it is paramount to directing it at God. 

Just my thoughts there DeighAnn, others mileage will greatly vary. 

 

Hi Dennis and thank you

I can follow your thoughts and why you are considering them.  One thing I really believe is once GOD gives us a truth, no matter what we do, no matter how far out of our comfort zone that truth may be, it never goes away and the more we study the more it is verified in the Word by the Word.  

When I first started do this I was always so scared of what someone was going to come back at me with, just waiting for that ONE verse that would just made my house of cards fall down.  But the strangest thing happened instead.  I found that no matter what was being discussed, what ever was needed would be found.   I would be looking for something else completely off topic and there it would be. Sometimes  I would think I had to be all out of scriptures and the next thing I knew pages had gone by and they were still coming. 

Yeah, I follow the much more simplistic program.  God created us.  Created earth.  Satan went bad and took a bunch with him.  So now we are getting this chance.  If we blow it or don't know it, get the Lords Day for final teaching with tutors, Final exam, Pass or fail.  New heaven and earth.  Through out the journey are 'works' we are told to do and depending on how well we follow we get rewards that last an eternity...  Sounds like a stellar plan to me.  Fair.  Just.  And everyone gets just what they deserve.    D

[DeighAnn]

52 minutes ago, Josheb said:

How about this Spirit? 

Genesis 1:1-2
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.  The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters."

Job 14:13
"Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, that You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You, that You would set a limit for me and remember me..."

Job 33:4
"The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."

Job 34:14-15
"If He should determine to do so, if He should gather to Himself His spirit and His breath,  all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust."

Psalm 33:6
"By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and by the breath of His mouth all their host."

Psalm 104:29-30
"You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust. You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; and You renew the face of the ground." 

Psalm 146:3-4
"Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.  His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish."

 

Solomon was not speaking about the human spirit. Here is what he wrote about the human spirit, 

Ecclesiastes 3:16-22 KJV
"And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there.  I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.  I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.  For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.  All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.  Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?  Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?"

 

Shouldn't the one verse from Solomon, Ecc. 12:7, be understood through all else that Solomon wrote and all else that God inspired the Biblical authors to write? Where are the verses that say angel and human shave spirits that return to God? Do a study of the word "return(s)" in the OT and you will see they believed humans returned to dust and God's Spirit and/or breath returned to Him (not the human's spirit). 

Hello Josh,  

I think it all must fit with each other and on different levels.  And lately my studies have been sailing on some smooth waters. 

I understand what they may have believed but the GREAT part is I have been given the Holy Spirit to lead and guide me, something they didn't have.  I also believe the WORD OF GOD grows.  We go from milk to meat so what is truth on one level doesn't mean there isn't more to learn more truth to be found and not different from what we first found.  Every time we learn a new truth the Word grows.  If the word isn't growing I am not either.  I can't hardly stand that.  How boring would that be?  

What do you see here?  

Genesis 28:10 And Jacob went out from Beersheba, and went toward Haran.

Genesis 28:11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep.



 

Genesis 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

Genesis 28:13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed


 What does 'your spirit' see written?   


 

Edited July 25, 2021 by DeighAnn
didn't need the personal stuff

[Resurrection Priest]

On 7/24/2021 at 10:30 AM, Justin Adams said:

Yeshua was and He was THE First Fruit.

1 Corinthians 15:23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. (1Co 15:23 NKJ)

[Resurrection Priest]

On 7/24/2021 at 9:10 AM, Dennis1209 said:

I've also pondered why both the lost and saved will be resurrected in physical bodies.

Hello Dennis1209,

I believe the saved/redeemed will be resurrected into "spiritual bodies."  Jesus said, they will then be "lake the angels."

The wicked are resurrected into mortal physical bodies.  That is why they can die again after they are judged - either slain by His brightness/glory, OR die in the last plagues that are poured out on the DAY that Christ returns in glory.