Joel's Prophecies and the Day of the LORD

[not an echo]

On 9/30/2021 at 1:54 AM, Marilyn C said:

On 9/29/2021 at 12:50 AM, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

Well Marilyn, my eyes are starting to get blurry again!  But, before I sign off for the night, it looks like by your statement above and the references you use that you see Christ's appearance with the opening of the 6th Seal as being His actual Second Coming.  Am I understanding you correctly?

Not for sure how you see everything about "The 7 Sealed Scroll" but basically, I see the seals on the outside of it as representing what will take place before it is opened.  Said another way, I see the seals of this scroll or book as representing what will happen leading up to whatever is contained within it.  Seems like to me that my concept of this is about as simple and basic as it can get.  Interestingly, one has to look long and hard to find anyone else expressing it like this.  My mind goes to what we would think if we had a chest before us that was locked with seven padlocks.  I don't know of anyone that would suppose that the treasure (or whatever happens to be in the chest) can be gotten to until the last lock is removed.  It has long been a curious thing for me that this simple concept is so foreign to discussions that are had concerning it.

Hi not an echo,

The book of Revelation is about the Father revealing His Son as He is known in the heavenly realm. There are 4 visions, and the last 3, each go to the end of the trib. Unless you start from Christ and what He is doing then you will end up a muddle.

For eg. The sun, moon, stars, all people hiding saying it is the great day of the wrath of God.... Which matches all other scriptures to do with Christ`s coming.

What I am seeing is that the celestial phenomena relating to the sun, the moon, and the stars happens concurrent with the appearance of "THE SIGN of the Son of man in heaven" (Matt. 24:30), and just before the beginning of the period of the Day of the Lord (Joel 2:31;  Acts 2:20;  I Thess. 4:16-5:4).  This aligns with what occurs with the opening of the 6th Seal (Rev. 6:12-17).  In the unquestioned account of the event of Christ's Second Advent (Rev. 19:11-16ff), nothing is even hinted at concerning these celestial phenomena.  I have often thought that nobody would be paying any attention to such as that at Christ's Second Advent anyway, as such would pale into utter insignificance.  However, because Christ's Sign Appearance will take place so quickly (I Cor. 15:52;  Matt. 24:40-44), these celestial signs at that time will be lingering testimonies to what has just taken place.

On 9/30/2021 at 1:54 AM, Marilyn C said:

However if you think that is the beginning of the trib, then it seems people go back to living, marrying and giving in marriage etc, and following the A/C. 

I don't believe anyone will be going back "to living, marrying and giving in marriage etc" at that time.  I see this as where we are at presently, just like the situation was before the flood.

Edited February 3, 2023 by not an echo

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

According to what all you are saying about this, how do you reconcile that "the northern army" (Joel 2:20) is referred to by God as "MY great army which I sent among you" (Joel 2:25)?

 

Hi not an echo,

Yes the Lord does send this army to Israel so that they (Israel) will repent and turn again to Him. Joel 2: 20 reveals that God removes the northern army and sends it towards the eastern and western sea, - dead.  

[The Light]

10 hours ago, not an echo said:

Before endeavoring to get back on topic, I'm wondering how you reconcile the lead-in verse for the sounding of the 7th Trumpet with your belief that "the wrath of God is over at the 7th Trumpet."  I see what you say concerning "The vials of God's wrath will be poured in the same timeframe as the trumpets."  But, because of what you have said about the 7th Trumpet, I'm taking it that you believe the vials will be poured out during the timeframe of the first six trumpets.  So, back to what I'm wondering about, consider afresh from Revelation 11:

 14  The second woe is past;  and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

If God's wrath is over with the sounding of the 7th Trumpet, what is the nature of the third woe that "cometh quickly"?

 

 

The third woe is the nations worldly kingdoms fall. The kingdoms of this world ard become the kingdoms of our Lord.

Rev 11

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

We can see a different view of the same event at the 7th vial.

Rev 16

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Additionally we see that there is a huge earthquake and great hail.

Rev 11

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Rev 16

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

[not an echo]

On 9/30/2021 at 1:47 AM, Marilyn C said:

Hi not an echo,

Some really good study of scripture there bro. Well done. 

Now just a couple of points. 

1. Yes I agree that God did send the Assyrian and Babylonians against Israel in the past, and quite a lot of detail there as you have presented. God is so patient, yet will chastise as He said and did for people to repent. Israel in this occasion.

However notice that in Joel, the Day of the LORD is specific with regards to the `far northern` army. And that part of the globe has only one nation - Russia. 

2. Also see that this Russian Federation does NOT attack Jerusalem, while the Assyrians and Babylon did. Important details there.

 

18 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

21 hours ago, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

According to what all you are saying about this, how do you reconcile that "the northern army" (Joel 2:20) is referred to by God as "MY great army which I sent among you" (Joel 2:25)?

 

Hi not an echo,

Yes the Lord does send this army to Israel so that they (Israel) will repent and turn again to Him. Joel 2: 20 reveals that God removes the northern army and sends it towards the eastern and western sea, - dead.  

Hello Marilyn,

I'm confused by your replies to what I have said concerning the first Day of the LORD spoken of by Joel, which I see as having been fulfilled.  It seems that you were kinda agreeing with me, then not, and then you do---kinda.  You brought up about the `far northern` army earlier and indicated that it was "Russia" or "this Russian Federation."  Where are you getting `far northern`?  And, what connection do you see between Russia and what it seems that you are kinda agreeing with me about?

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, not an echo said:

 

Hello Marilyn,

I'm confused by your replies to what I have said concerning the first Day of the LORD spoken of by Joel, which I see as having been fulfilled.  It seems that you were kinda agreeing with me, then not, and then you do---kinda.  You brought up about the `far northern` army earlier and indicated that it was "Russia" or "this Russian Federation."  Where are you getting `far northern`?  And, what connection do you see between Russia and what it seems that you are kinda agreeing with me about?

Hi not an echo,

Sorry if I have not been clear.

So...I see that the Assyrians and Babylonians did indeed attack Israel. That is what I was agreeing on. However in Joel i do not see them, but i do see the Russian Federation that God brings down to judge on the mountains of Israel. (very soon).

In Hebrew the word for `northern`, is `ts`phowniy` & the same as `tsaphon,` meaning hidden, dark, used ONLY of the north as a quarter (gloomy and unknown).

And the ONLY nation we know in that far northern quarter of the earth is - Russia. 

[not an echo]

On 10/3/2021 at 12:50 AM, Marilyn C said:

On 10/2/2021 at 10:20 PM, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

According to what all you are saying about this, how do you reconcile that "the northern army" (Joel 2:20) is referred to by God as "MY great army which I sent among you" (Joel 2:25)?

 

Hi not an echo,

Yes the Lord does send this army to Israel so that they (Israel) will repent and turn again to Him. Joel 2: 20 reveals that God removes the northern army and sends it towards the eastern and western sea, - dead.  

I'm still interested in your answer to my question above:  "According to what all you are saying about this, how do you reconcile that "the northern army" (Joel 2:20) is referred to by God as "MY great army which I sent among you" (Joel 2:25)?"

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, not an echo said:

I'm still interested in your answer to my question above:  "According to what all you are saying about this, how do you reconcile that "the northern army" (Joel 2:20) is referred to by God as "MY great army which I sent among you" (Joel 2:25)?"

Hi not an echo,

Thank you for being so gracious & interested.

So the Lord calls them His great army for it is God who `puts hooks in their jaws` (Ez. 38: 4) and brings them down to the mountains of Israel to be judged. 

Then in Joel 2 we see what the Lord does to this great army -

`I will remove far from you that northern army; and will drive him away into a barren and desolate land, with his face towards the eastern sea ans his back towards the western sea; his stench will come up, and his foul odour will rise, because he has done monstrous things.` (Joel 2: 20)

Joel 2: 25 shows that the Lord has judged that great army and that Israel will know that the Lord is their God.

 

[not an echo]

11 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

13 hours ago, not an echo said:

I'm still interested in your answer to my question above:  "According to what all you are saying about this, how do you reconcile that "the northern army" (Joel 2:20) is referred to by God as "MY great army which I sent among you" (Joel 2:25)?"

Hi not an echo,

Thank you for being so gracious & interested.

So the Lord calls them His great army for it is God who `puts hooks in their jaws` (Ez. 38: 4) and brings them down to the mountains of Israel to be judged. 

Then in Joel 2 we see what the Lord does to this great army -

`I will remove far from you that northern army; and will drive him away into a barren and desolate land, with his face towards the eastern sea ans his back towards the western sea; his stench will come up, and his foul odour will rise, because he has done monstrous things.` (Joel 2: 20)

Joel 2: 25 shows that the Lord has judged that great army and that Israel will know that the Lord is their God.

Hello Marilyn,

I have to disagree with your take on things.  According to what much in Scripture bears out, Joel's use of the possessive pronouns relating to God and "the northern army" is because of God's use of this army as a chastening rod against His people Israel.  Consider just the context of Joel's prophecy alone.  In chapter 1 he writes,

  6   For a nation is come up upon My land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.

Then, a few verses further, in direct connection with what God was going to do to His people and land, Joel says...

 15  Alas for the day!  for the Day of the LORD is at hand, AND AS A DESTRUCTION FROM THE ALMIGHTY shall it come.

Still connected with all of this, in chapter two Joel writes,

 11  And the LORD shall utter His voice before HIS army:  for HIS camp is very great:  for he ((God's army) is strong that executeth His word:  for the Day of the LORD is great and very terrible;  and who can abide it?

As I have pointed out previously, if the Israelites had of repented, God said that He would "remove far off from [them] the northern army" (2:20).  Moreover, five verses further, God promised them this:

 25  And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpillar, and the palmerworm,

MY GREAT ARMY,

WHICH I SENT AMONG YOU.

Concerning the army that God was going to use coming out of the north (2:20), Ezekiel speaks to this before prophesying anything about the last days.  Consider from chapter 26:

  7   For thus saith the Lord God;  Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, FROM THE NORTH, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

Jeremiah also speaks to this in 1:14-16 and makes a further reference to this same time in chapter 25, a reference that is very key:

  8   Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts;  Because ye have not heard My words,

  9   Behold, I will send and take all the families OF THE NORTH, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, MY SERVANT, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.

 10  Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle.

 11  And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment;  and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

There is a large volume of Scripture that reinforces that what Joel prophesied of in 1:1-2:11 was indeed fulfilled, because the Israelites did not repent, as encouraged to do in 2:12-17, which would have resulted in God removing His chastening rod, as He said He would in 2:18-27.  But, they would not.

Now, there's coming another Day of the LORD, one that is worldwide in scope.  And, I believe it is looming even now.  Joel's prophecies turn to focus upon that Day of the LORD in this verse from chapter two...

 28  And it shall come to pass AFTERWARD...

Speaking also to that time, chapter three opens thus...

  1   For, behold, IN THOSE DAYS, AND IN THAT TIME...

Based upon what I believe Scripture will continue to bear out, there is nothing about Joel 1:1-2:27 that has to do with the Day of the LORD that is looming in our day, other than this---Humanity should easily see and take serious note concerning what the dire consequences are and have been for not regarding Almighty God, the Creator of this Universe and all that in it is.  That most have not and do not certainly bespeaks the corrupted fallen condition of humanity and what our utter hopelessness would be if He had not done for us what He did for us through the blood of Jesus Christ on the cross at Calvary.  I'm reminded afresh of what Paul wrote in Romans 5:

  8   But God commendeth HIS LOVE TOWARD US, in that, while we were yet sinners, CHRIST DIED FOR US.

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

I have to disagree with your take on things.  According to what much in Scripture bears out, Joel's use of the possessive pronouns relating to God and "the northern army" is because of God's use of this army as a chastening rod against His people Israel.  Consider just the context of Joel's prophecy alone.  In chapter 1 he writes,

  6   For a nation is come up upon My land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.

Then, a few verses further, in direct connection with what God was going to do to His people and land, Joel says...

 15  Alas for the day!  for the Day of the LORD is at hand, AND AS A DESTRUCTION FROM THE ALMIGHTY shall it come.

Still connected with all of this, in chapter two Joel writes,

 11  And the LORD shall utter His voice before HIS army:  for HIS camp is very great:  for he ((God's army) is strong that executeth His word:  for the Day of the LORD is great and very terrible;  and who can abide it?

As I have pointed out previously, if the Israelites had of repented, God said that He would "remove far off from [them] the northern army" (2:20).  Moreover, five verses further, God promised them this:

 25  And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpillar, and the palmerworm,

MY GREAT ARMY,

WHICH I SENT AMONG YOU.

Concerning the army that God was going to use coming out of the north (2:20), Ezekiel speaks to this before prophesying anything about the last days.  Consider from chapter 26:

  7   For thus saith the Lord God;  Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, FROM THE NORTH, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

Jeremiah also speaks to this in 1:14-16 and makes a further reference to this same time in chapter 25, a reference that is very key:

  8   Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts;  Because ye have not heard My words,

  9   Behold, I will send and take all the families OF THE NORTH, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, MY SERVANT, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.

 10  Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle.

 11  And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment;  and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

There is a large volume of Scripture that reinforces that what Joel prophesied of in 1:1-2:11 was indeed fulfilled, because the Israelites did not repent, as encouraged to do in 2:12-17, which would have resulted in God removing His chastening rod, as He said He would in 2:18-27.  But, they would not.

Now, there's coming another Day of the LORD, one that is worldwide in scope.  And, I believe it is looming even now.  Joel's prophecies turn to focus upon that Day of the LORD in this verse from chapter two...

 28  And it shall come to pass AFTERWARD...

Speaking also to that time, chapter three opens thus...

  1   For, behold, IN THOSE DAYS, AND IN THAT TIME...

Based upon what I believe Scripture will continue to bear out, there is nothing about Joel 1:1-2:27 that has to do with the Day of the LORD that is looming in our day, other than this---Humanity should easily see and take serious note concerning what the dire consequences are and have been for not regarding Almighty God, the Creator of this Universe and all that in it is.  That most have not and do not certainly bespeaks the corrupted fallen condition of humanity and what our utter hopelessness would be if He had not done for us what He did for us through the blood of Jesus Christ on the cross at Calvary.  I'm reminded afresh of what Paul wrote in Romans 5:

  8   But God commendeth HIS LOVE TOWARD US, in that, while we were yet sinners, CHRIST DIED FOR US.

Yes we agree that the Lord is using this army as a chastening rod for Israel. However did this happen to Israel after the Babylon exile -

`And my people shall never be put to shame.` 

And did they - `know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and there is no other. My people shall never be put to shame.` (Joel 2: 26 & 27)

 

Israel has had over 2500 years of shame.....

[not an echo]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

5 hours ago, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

I have to disagree with your take on things.  According to what much in Scripture bears out, Joel's use of the possessive pronouns relating to God and "the northern army" is because of God's use of this army as a chastening rod against His people Israel.  Consider just the context of Joel's prophecy alone.  In chapter 1 he writes,

  6   For a nation is come up upon My land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.

Then, a few verses further, in direct connection with what God was going to do to His people and land, Joel says...

 15  Alas for the day!  for the Day of the LORD is at hand, AND AS A DESTRUCTION FROM THE ALMIGHTY shall it come.

Still connected with all of this, in chapter two Joel writes,

 11  And the LORD shall utter His voice before HIS army:  for HIS camp is very great:  for he ((God's army) is strong that executeth His word:  for the Day of the LORD is great and very terrible;  and who can abide it?

As I have pointed out previously, if the Israelites had of repented, God said that He would "remove far off from [them] the northern army" (2:20).  Moreover, five verses further, God promised them this:

 25  And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpillar, and the palmerworm,

MY GREAT ARMY,

WHICH I SENT AMONG YOU.

Concerning the army that God was going to use coming out of the north (2:20), Ezekiel speaks to this before prophesying anything about the last days.  Consider from chapter 26:

  7   For thus saith the Lord God;  Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, FROM THE NORTH, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

Jeremiah also speaks to this in 1:14-16 and makes a further reference to this same time in chapter 25, a reference that is very key:

  8   Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts;  Because ye have not heard My words,

  9   Behold, I will send and take all the families OF THE NORTH, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, MY SERVANT, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.

 10  Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle.

 11  And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment;  and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

There is a large volume of Scripture that reinforces that what Joel prophesied of in 1:1-2:11 was indeed fulfilled, because the Israelites did not repent, as encouraged to do in 2:12-17, which would have resulted in God removing His chastening rod, as He said He would in 2:18-27.  But, they would not.

Now, there's coming another Day of the LORD, one that is worldwide in scope.  And, I believe it is looming even now.  Joel's prophecies turn to focus upon that Day of the LORD in this verse from chapter two...

 28  And it shall come to pass AFTERWARD...

Speaking also to that time, chapter three opens thus...

  1   For, behold, IN THOSE DAYS, AND IN THAT TIME...

Based upon what I believe Scripture will continue to bear out, there is nothing about Joel 1:1-2:27 that has to do with the Day of the LORD that is looming in our day, other than this---Humanity should easily see and take serious note concerning what the dire consequences are and have been for not regarding Almighty God, the Creator of this Universe and all that in it is.  That most have not and do not certainly bespeaks the corrupted fallen condition of humanity and what our utter hopelessness would be if He had not done for us what He did for us through the blood of Jesus Christ on the cross at Calvary.  I'm reminded afresh of what Paul wrote in Romans 5:

  8   But God commendeth HIS LOVE TOWARD US, in that, while we were yet sinners, CHRIST DIED FOR US.

Yes we agree that the Lord is using this army as a chastening rod for Israel. However did this happen to Israel after the Babylon exile -

`And my people shall never be put to shame.` 

And did they - `know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and there is no other. My people shall never be put to shame.` (Joel 2: 26 & 27)

 

Israel has had over 2500 years of shame.....

To your question:

"However did this happen to Israel after the Babylon exile -

`And my people shall never be put to shame.` "

No Marilyn, it did not.  And, to your question:

"And did they - 

`know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and there is no other. My people shall never be put to shame.` (Joel 2: 26 & 27)"

No Marilyn, they did not.  And why?  For a very, very good reason.  Here is an exact copy and paste from an important paragraph in my above reply that speaks to this---just as I had written and emphasized it.  Please read it again, and notice especially the last four words,

"There is a large volume of Scripture that reinforces that what Joel prophesied of in 1:1-2:11 was indeed fulfilled, because the Israelites did not repent, as encouraged to do in 2:12-17, which would have resulted in God removing His chastening rod, as He said He would in 2:18-27.  But, they would not."

BUT THEY WOULD NOT.

There sure is a message in those four words Marilyn.  The Israelites did something, but it certainly wasn't what God had pleaded with them to do.  What did they do???  Notice from II Chronicles 36:

 16  But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised His words, and misused His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, till there was no remedy.

I think of Jeremiah's words in chapter five:

 20  Declare this in the house of Jacob, and publish it in Judah, saying,

 21  Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding;  which have eyes, and see not;  which have ears, and hear not:

 22  Fear ye not Me?  saith the LORD:  will ye not tremble at My presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it:  and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail;  though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?

 23  But this people hath a revolting and a rebellious heart;  they are revolted and gone.

 24  Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season:  He reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest.

 25  Your inquities have turned away these things, and your sins HAVE WITHHOLDEN GOOD THINGS FROM YOU.

This is the tenor of everything it says in the prophets concerning what befell the Israelite nation.