Joel's Prophecies and the Day of the LORD

[Diaste]

On 12/9/2021 at 9:14 PM, not an echo said:

What is it about Joel 1:1-2:11 that did not come to pass--- according to Scripture and its concepts?

Concerning your question, No.  But it seems that you are not accepting the Bible's evidences of either, whether historical or what was soon to become historical.

Concerning your question here, my thread is replete with both specific and broad Scriptural evidences that Joel 1:1-2:11 has been fulfilled.  And remember, we have not gotten to the end of our path...

In the context of our discussions Diaste, I would have thought you would have known what I meant.  I should have added to my statement above something like "concerning anything that rings of what the last days' Day of the LORD holds."

The Day of the LORD is a unique time of God's judgment and wrath.  And, whether it is one that has occurred, or one that is yet to occur, while there are differences, there are also similarities, no matter the years or centuries of separation.

I hope that the truth of this is not lost in an argument over semantics, but I think of it kinda like this:  In 1945, Japan experienced the day of the nuclear bomb.  There had never been a bomb dropped like this one.  We don't know where, when, or if another nuclear bomb will be dropped, but if there ever is, another country will experience its own day of the nuclear bomb.  There are no other bombs like these bombs.  They are unique.  Yet, if another country is ever nuked, there will be many things that are the same as what happened with the first such bombing---and some things that will be different.  But, as there is no mistaking the blast of a nuclear bomb, there is no mistaking a Day of the LORD.  Both Israel and Judah experienced it.  And when they did, it was the Day of the LORD for them. Similarly, both Hiroshima and Nagasaki experienced the nuclear bomb.  We know that there is a fear that another day of the nuclear bomb may come, especially the fear of a nuclear exchange.  And, if something like this happens, the way everything shapes up, it will be far worse than what happened in Japan.  Likewise with the Day of the LORD that I believe is looming on our horizon.  This last one will be far worse than what happened to Israel and Judah, as it ultimately will result in the destruction of this present world (II Pet. 3:10-13 with Rev. 20:11; 21:1).

I don't, and will not, buy there are multiple days of the Lord as described in the context of Jesus return. I don't buy prophecy can or will come to pass in parcels over millennia when the prophecy is taken in context. 

Joel is seamless and complete and speaks to the end of the age, in context. If it all didn't come to pass as spoken, when it was imagined it came to pass, and that includes every detail of the prophecy manifested, complete and undeniable, then it didn't come to pass. 

Such is the case with Joel no matter how it's imagined to be divided.

[Diaste]

On 12/9/2021 at 1:02 PM, not an echo said:

I believe you may have mistook my true attitude here Diaste.  I wouldn't ask you to do something that I wouldn't do myself, and I don't know of anything that I have ever done that God has honored more in my life than my taking personal responsibility for the reading of The Bible through.  I did not want to stand before Him, not having read the entirety of His Word.  My desire to interpret correctly and not add to all the falsehood that is already out there goes really deep with me.  Especially because of my uncommon (or unorthodox) understandings.  That's why I pointed out what I did about reading (and I really mean studying) the Bible through again, right before publishing my website.  Right now, I'm on another journey through the Bible and will be again after that.  In the context of you ever taking issue with what I put forth---in the face of all the Scripture I provide---I felt I was giving you the best instruction that a child of God could be given.  It's one thing to seek help and understanding on a Christian forum.  It's quite another thing to always be taking issue with Scriptural teachings---not even having read the Bible through.

There is a vast gap between knowledge and understanding. I seek understanding.

"Ever learning, never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." Not a trap into which I wish to ever fall.

To me the bible is a book filled with instruction in a great many things. Some of it quite simple in its detail; the most important parts are the concepts.

Love God with all you are and love your neighbor as yourself, believe in your heart God raised Jesus from the dead and confess Jesus' lordship with your mouth. This literally covers every thought and action of our whole lives. Just those things. Simple. Impossible for some to grasp all the same. 

Is it bad to read every word from cover to cover again and again? No. Is it perilous to miss the wisdom of instruction and the truth in understanding? Yes. 

I get it. I really do. Take joy in your journey. Ask the Spirit for wisdom and understanding. This is the true path to untold treasures and life eternal. Proverbs 4

"

When I was a son to my father,

tender and the only child of my mother,

4he taught me and said,

“Let your heart lay hold of my words;

keep my commands and you will live.

5Get wisdom, get understanding;

do not forget my words or turn from them.

6Do not forsake wisdom, and she will preserve you;

love her, and she will guard you.

7Wisdom is supreme; so acquire wisdom.

And whatever you may acquire,a gain understanding.

8Prize her, and she will exalt you;

if you embrace her, she will honor you.

9She will set a garland of grace on your head;

she will present you with a crown of beauty.”

"

Words to live by. And that wisdom and understanding is of the Lord, by the Lord and imbued by the Lord concerning all His ways.

 

 

[JohnR7]

On 9/14/2021 at 2:30 PM, not an echo said:

15  That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

We read about this in Acts when Jesus will return to the mount of olives. We are told there will be an earthquake, the east will part from the west, the north will part from the south. A study of plate technotics shows that this is exactly what will happen. 

[not an echo]

On 12/4/2021 at 6:19 AM, Diaste said:

So if there is a division at Joel 2:28, as is speculated, I think there is a problem.

Joel 2:28-32

28And afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. 29Even on My menservants and maidservants, I will pour out My Spirit in those days. 30I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. 31The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and awesomeh Day of the LORD.

32And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved;

And Peter says the same thing:

Acts 2

In the last days, God says, I will pour out My Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. 18Even on My menservants and maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke. 20The sun will be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the coming of the great and glorious Day of the Lord.

21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

Why does it seem only a part of the prophecy is fulfilled? And why does Joel say, "And afterward..." And Peter says, "In the last days..."? 

As in Joel, after what? After driving off the northern army? After the former and latter rain? After the restoration of years of pestilence? After they know the Lord dwells in their midst? 

Maybe Joel isn't referencing any of that but alluding to the future event Peter describes. Since Peter says this is what Joel spoke of then it must be Joel heard about the Acts 2 moment when he heard the word of the Lord in ancient times. 

Then 'afterward' isn't after Joel 2:18-27. When did all that occur? Most telling is Joel 2:27, "And ye shall know that I [am] in the midst of Israel, and [that] I [am] the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed."

So only after the Lord is in the midst of Israel, they know He is the Lord God and the shame has vanished, does the Spirit pour out and Joel 2:28-32 comes to pass?

From what Peter says in the 1st century Joel 2:28-32 has come to pass and no mention of anything prior in Joel has come into existence. In fact, just the opposite occurred. In 70 AD Israel was destroyed. The Jews of Europe endured shame and death in the late 30's-early 40's. Nothing was restored till 1948 and surely Joel 2:27 hasn't come to pass.

And just as surely Joel is speaking to a very different afterward than a near antecedent we might find throughout Joel 1:1 to Joel 2:27. As Peter showed the prophecy of the indwelling came about after the ascension and clearly wasn't predicated on any previous event Joel recorded prior to 2:28-32, especially so in light of the yet to be fulfilled prophecy of Joel 2:18-27; emphasis on v 27.

So then when is the 'afterward' and what does the 'afterward' look like? I'm not seeing anything in Joel that would conclusively and beyond all doubt rise to the level of fully explaining what this 'afterward' is. 

I think Peter explains it well. It came about after Jesus' ministry, after the cross, and after the ascension and not after anything Joel heard or saw and recorded as the word of the Lord which came to him so long ago. 

The major implication then is nothing in Joel has come to pass and is waiting fulfillment. Just as the Acts 2 statement by Peter has not been fulfilled as

"...wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke. 20 The sun will be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the coming of the great and glorious Day of the Lord." 

have not yet come to pass. 

In order for there to be a division between 2:27 and 2:28 all of Joel 2:1-11 should have happened before Peter's proclamation in Acts 2. Was there such an army that fulfilled every aspect of these verses? E.g.

"there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, [even] to the years of many generations."

"The appearance of them [is] as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run."

"...and [when] they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded."

A singular army never before seen and never to be seen again, they look like horses and they can't be wounded.  That should merit some sort of historical record, biblical or secular. Safe to say I have never heard of one. 

The evidence is mounting that the when of Joel's 'afterward' is when Peter spoke in Acts 2 confirming the arrival of the Spirit at Pentecost, as prophesied by Jesus, and Joel's 'afterward' is after the ascension.

Hello Diaste,

When you go on a trip, it is important to pay close attention to the map, or you may not get to where it is you are wanting to go.  By your above post, it looks like we get to different places with our interpretation of Joel's prophecies because we take different turns at Joel 2:18-27.  What you are seeing as a problem would be a problem if this passage had come to pass---but it didn't.  And, it is not going to, because the Israelites didn't meet the "Then" (vs. 18) condition that was the foundation for what could have come to pass.  As a result, what came to pass is that God did not remove the northern army (Babylon) and the Israelites spent 70 years in Babylonian captivity.  Here's a Scriptural account that relates directly to this, from Jeremiah 24:

  8   Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts;  Because ye have NOT HEARD MY WORDS (i.e., have not met MY "Then" condition),

  9   Behold, I will send and take all the families OF THE NORTH, saith the LORD, AND NEBUCHADREZZAR the king of Babylon, MY SERVANT, and will bring them AGAINST THIS LAND (i.e., instead of removing them), and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.

 10  Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle.

 11  And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment;  and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon SEVENTY YEARS.

As far as Peter's quoting of Joel's prophecy, it needs to be understood that Joel's words, "And it shall come to pass afterwards" (Joel 2:28) is clarified by Peter's words, "And it shall come to pass in the last days" (Acts 2:17).  Peter said, "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel" (Acts 2:16).  Said another way, the "in the last days" spoken by Peter equals the "afterwards" spoken by Joel.

Moreover, the beginning of the era of the Church was in the "last days" just as we are in the last days.  We are just later in the last days than they were.

The full magnificence of Joel's prophecy is missed and a major key to understanding the timing of the rapture (relative to other events) is completely overlooked when it is not recognized that Joel's prophecy bookends the era of the Church---to the very day.  The commencement of the era of the Church was on the Day of Pentecost.  The conclusion of the era of the Church will be the day the Lamb opens the 6th Seal---which shapes up to be the same day that the 7th Seal will be opened---which is the same day that the period of the Day of the LORD will begin.

What I found since I made this turn Diaste is that this road has none of the chuckholes, bad shoulders, and stalled traffic that all the other turns proved to have.

[Diaste]

5 hours ago, not an echo said:

  And, it is not going to, because the Israelites didn't meet the "Then" (vs. 18) condition that was the foundation for what could have come to pass. 

You mean this?

Joel 2:18, 

Then the LORD became jealous for His land,

and He spared His people.

I don't get it.

5 hours ago, not an echo said:

 

As a result, what came to pass is that God did not remove the northern army (Babylon) and the Israelites spent 70 years in Babylonian captivity.  Here's a Scriptural account that relates directly to this, from Jeremiah 24:

  8   Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts;  Because ye have NOT HEARD MY WORDS (i.e., have not met MY "Then" condition),

  9   Behold, I will send and take all the families OF THE NORTH, saith the LORD, AND NEBUCHADREZZAR the king of Babylon, MY SERVANT, and will bring them AGAINST THIS LAND (i.e., instead of removing them), and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.

 10  Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle.

 11  And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment;  and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon SEVENTY YEARS.

As far as Peter's quoting of Joel's prophecy, it needs to be understood that Joel's words, "And it shall come to pass afterwards" (Joel 2:28) is clarified by Peter's words, "And it shall come to pass in the last days" (Acts 2:17).  Peter said, "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel" (Acts 2:16).  Said another way, the "in the last days" spoken by Peter equals the "afterwards" spoken by Joel.

I wonder why all of it didn't come to pass, e.g., 

19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

21And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The above was part of it, yes?  Did it come to pass? Or is this another, "Insert a full stop."? 

5 hours ago, not an echo said:

Moreover, the beginning of the era of the Church was in the "last days" just as we are in the last days.  We are just later in the last days than they were.

No such thing as a 'church era'. There is Israel the land and Israel the people of God. If you are not of the seed of Abraham then you are not in Christ. But this is another bad doctrine to take on in another discussion.

5 hours ago, not an echo said:

The full magnificence of Joel's prophecy is missed and a major key to understanding the timing of the rapture (relative to other events) is completely overlooked when it is not recognized that Joel's prophecy bookends the era of the Church---to the very day.  The commencement of the era of the Church was on the Day of Pentecost.  The conclusion of the era of the Church will be the day the Lamb opens the 6th Seal---which shapes up to be the same day that the 7th Seal will be opened---which is the same day that the period of the Day of the LORD will begin.

Many people are in for a big surprise.

5 hours ago, not an echo said:

What I found since I made this turn Diaste is that this road has none of the chuckholes, bad shoulders, and stalled traffic that all the other turns proved to have.

Maybe not. But that even pavement hides the fact the bridge has collapsed. It's a road to disaster in my opinion.

[Diaste]

On 12/7/2021 at 12:53 PM, not an echo said:

What do you reckon the odds would be that everything in Joel 1:1-2:11 would find support in Scripture for having been fulfilled, if it hadn't been?  

You only bring up your take on it. When are you going to provide proof like I have asked for to support your position? 

Joel 1 records the meat and drink offering cut off from the house of God, the grain destroyed, the pastures burned up, the trees scorched, and all by fire, and the waters made bitter so the herds have no water, all near to a day of destruction?

You're saying this was all fulfilled from Joel 1 to Joel 2:12 or v 27, during the time when Israel was taken captive by King Nebby. Where is the biblical evidence, or extra biblical, or secular evidence this, "meat and drink offering cut off from the house of God, the grain destroyed, the pastures burned up, the trees scorched, and all by fire, and the waters made bitter so the herds have no water" occurred during that time? And all the conditions Joel lists exist concurrent; and  the gloomy, dark, fearful day of destruction looming along with the above?

I have asked for this several times. I have not seen any evidence offered to prove this happened as written. 

[Diaste]

On 12/8/2021 at 9:43 PM, not an echo said:

When you get finished, tell me what you make of the above five verses.  Perhaps then I'll have a little better feel concerning how long I will need to spend on that part of the path when we finally get there.

I think the problem here is foundational. There is an undercurrent of dispensationalism coursing through the interpretation. I reject the concept and doctrine of dispensationalism in total. 

We are not going to see eye to eye on this if dispensationalism is the foundation of the interpretive method. It simply changes everything. 

I'm out. No need to reply as I won't be continuing any longer. Thanks for your time and effort.

[not an echo]

On 12/4/2021 at 10:33 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi nae,

I was giving you and the others time to discuss your points.

Now my thoughts -

So to Ez. 38 which follows straight on from Ez. 37. And notice that that prophecy was about Israel, the dry bones coming to life. Then we have them coming into the land of Israel and finally a man called David will be appointed over them and the nations will know that God has sanctified Israel when His sanctuary is in their midst. (Ez. 37: 28) 

That we see is an overview. Then on to Ez. 38 & 39 which reveal the war before the trib, and also jumps to Armageddon at the end. Ez. 40 - 48 then gives the detail of the building of the sanctuary and David the Prince, His sons and inheritance etc.

Looking forward to discussing the book of Revelation with others. 

Marilyn.

Hello Marilyn,

I had made the following reply to you that I don't believe you have actually spoke to.  Notice what I have now underlined:

"For me, the prophetic puzzle pieces fit and everything harmonizes much better when it is understood that Ezekiel 38 connects with the end of Christ's Millennial Reign and Ezekiel 39 connects with the Battle of Armageddon, which will precede Christ's Millennial Reign.  Ezekiel 38-39 deserves a thread all its own.  I have been surprised that you have made no post-millennial connection with Ezekiel 38 and Revelation 20:7-10.  I just scanned this whole thread, and unless I am missing it, I don't believe you have referenced Revelation 20:7-10 at all, or in connection with anything."

It has remained a curious thing to me that you make a connection of Ezekiel 38 with a Gog/Magog battle that you believe is going to precede the Battle of Armageddon by several years (if I understand you correctly), yet, you make no connection with the Gog/Magog battle that is spoken of after Christ's Millennial Reign (Rev. 20:7-10).  Said another way, it seems to me that you are trying to make a connection that is very vague while at the same time totally missing a connection that is quite apparent.

While my preceding focus kinda strays off topic for this thread, you have relied heavily on what is said in Joel 2:20 concerning "the northern army" to support your above position of a Gog/Magog battle preceding the Battle of Armageddon.  In light of what I have brought out so far in this thread, I'm just not seeing any real substance for what I understand as your position.  But, I will continue to look at it---through the lens of Scripture.  Also, we will be coming to other places on our path where this will be spoke to.

[Marilyn C]

52 minutes ago, not an echo said:

Hello Marilyn,

I had made the following reply to you that I don't believe you have actually spoke to.  Notice what I have now underlined:

"For me, the prophetic puzzle pieces fit and everything harmonizes much better when it is understood that Ezekiel 38 connects with the end of Christ's Millennial Reign and Ezekiel 39 connects with the Battle of Armageddon, which will precede Christ's Millennial Reign.  Ezekiel 38-39 deserves a thread all its own.  I have been surprised that you have made no post-millennial connection with Ezekiel 38 and Revelation 20:7-10.  I just scanned this whole thread, and unless I am missing it, I don't believe you have referenced Revelation 20:7-10 at all, or in connection with anything."

It has remained a curious thing to me that you make a connection of Ezekiel 38 with a Gog/Magog battle that you believe is going to precede the Battle of Armageddon by several years (if I understand you correctly), yet, you make no connection with the Gog/Magog battle that is spoken of after Christ's Millennial Reign (Rev. 20:7-10).  Said another way, it seems to me that you are trying to make a connection that is very vague while at the same time totally missing a connection that is quite apparent.

While my preceding focus kinda strays off topic for this thread, you have relied heavily on what is said in Joel 2:20 concerning "the northern army" to support your above position of a Gog/Magog battle preceding the Battle of Armageddon.  In light of what I have brought out so far in this thread, I'm just not seeing any real substance for what I understand as your position.  But, I will continue to look at it---through the lens of Scripture.  Also, we will be coming to other places on our path where this will be spoke to.

I see the Gog and Magog 2 wars as referencing peoples from the far north. That will happen (very soon) before the trib, and again at the end of the millennium.

[not an echo]

On 12/4/2021 at 11:01 PM, Keras said:

I believe that the very existence of the State of Israel today, surely places us in the Latter Days. Therefore, correct understanding of the end times should be the aim of every Christian believer.

 We need to not be taken unawares of coming world changing events. Those Christians who believe in a  ‘rapture to heaven’, may find themselves unprepared to face severe Tribulation. The Lord has called us to be His co-workers, so we must know what lies before us, to work diligently toward the furtherance of His Kingdom. Remember that Jesus rebuked the people of His day, for not being able or willing to discern the signs of the prophetic times in which they lived.

Since 1948, we have seen an amazing restoration of the Jewish people into a portion of the Land.

Joel 3:1 When the time comes, I will reverse the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem.

God says; in that time period, certain things will occur. The next prophetic event will be an attack on the Jewish State of Israel by the Islamic peoples, with the support of many other nations and entities. The Lord’s fiery judgement on them will result in the destruction and depopulation of most of the Middle East. Jeremiah 12:14, Psalms 83:1-18, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Micah 4:11-12, Zephaniah 1:14-18

Joel 3:2-3 I shall gather the nations into the valley of Jehoshaphat [the Lord Judges] I will judge them on behalf of My people, whom they scattered among the nations.

     This event is not at the Return of Jesus, as it is described in Rev. 19:11-21 and Zechariah 14:3-4

Joel 3:4-8 What are you to Me, Israel’s neighbors? Do you want vengeance? I will make your deeds recoil onto your own heads. You have harmed Judah and stolen their treasures. I will rouse them and bring them home; your own people will be enslaved.

Joel 3:9-17 Proclaim war among the nations! Prepare your weapons, let the weakest say they are strong. The nations all around will hear the call and gather for judgement. The harvest is ripe- wield the knife, tread the grapes. [Rev. 14:17-20] The Day of the Lords vengeance is at hand, in the place of Decision. But the Lord is a refuge for His people, a defense for Israel. By this you will know that I am the Lord your God. Jerusalem will be holy.

Joel 3:18-21 When that day comes, there will be food and water in plenty in the Land.    Egypt and Edom will become desolate wastes because of the violence they did to Judah, but the Land of Israel will be inhabited forever. I shall avenge their blood and the Lord will dwell in Zion.

For the universal Church of Jesus Christ and all peoples, it is time to realize that we are now at the edge of cataclysmic events. The obvious determination and preparedness of Israel’s enemies is so great, that there is no defence adequate to cope with their attack. It will require divine intervention to avoid the devastation of a worldwide nuclear exchange.  The Lord’s terrible Day of wrath by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis will be triggered by this attack and will result in the virtual depopulation of all the holy land. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 2:8-9, Obadiah 1-21

This event will be the fulfilment of Isaiah 30:25-30, Isaiah 63:1-6, Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 66:15-16, Zephaniah 1:14-18 & 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7, +

 

 The assurances given concerning the protection of the faithful Christians, if not kept, would render His Word unreliable, and His character flawed. God’s promises never fail, He will protect His people during His Day of vengeance and wrath against His enemies. Isaiah 43:2, Isaiah 41:13, Psalms 91 

 It should be clear to anyone that a secular State of Israel is not God’s highest ambition for His people. Currently the Jews only occupy a small portion of Greater Israel and are beset by problems, water shortages, religious schisms and are threatened on all sides. Many, many prophecies predict a remarkable future greatness for ALL the tribes of Israel. Most Bible scholars relegate these predictions to the Millennium, as they cannot see any earlier fulfilment. They have often been influenced by the well entrenched “rapture to heaven” view and a belief that wrongly thinks the Israel of God is separate from the Church of born again believers.

But when thought is given to what so clearly must happen before Jesus Returns, then wonderful is the prospect of a righteous nation, living in peace and security in the Promised Land – after the whole area is cleared and cleansed by this great Day of the Lord’s vengeance. Deuteronomy 32:34-35

Hello Keras,

You lost me with your indications that you don't believe there is going to be a rapture:  "Those Christians who believe in a  ‘rapture to heaven’, may find themselves unprepared to face severe Tribulation" and "They have often been influenced by the well entrenched “rapture to heaven” view and a belief that wrongly thinks the Israel of God is separate from the Church of born again believers."

Because of this foundational difference in our beliefs, I really doubt that our discussions would be fruitful.  I'm really not meaning to be negative.  Perhaps I am wrong, but I base what I am believing squarely on Scripture and am ready to give an account to the Father for why I believe as I do.  I know that you would probably say likewise, and I understand.  This I hope we can agree on, and that is the need to be ready come what may.  On my part, my readiness rests in what God did for me through Jesus Christ on the cross at Calvary and my being a born-again child of His.