I'd like y'all's opinion on something especially the ladies

[SIC]

4 hours ago, Deborah_ said:

If this one group is short of men, then more men need to join it! 

That's the point isn't it. It  probably isn't just a coincidence that men are not joining. There probably is a reason behind that.

[Abrielle]

9 hours ago, SIC said:

I have two opinions:

1. If a church small group's men-women ratio is significantly more skewed towards women than the men-women ratio in the church then I as a man am justified in avoiding that small group on the grounds of the skewed men-women ratio.

2. If a church small group's men-women ratio is significantly more skewed towards women than the men-women ratio in the church then that is no accident but is a reflection of the leader's leadership.

Now the question I have is:

Are these two opinions misogynistic?

 

No, those statements are not misogynistic, yet. Depending on your thought process, who knows.
I would make the same observations, if i were in a similar situation, however:

Those two statements don't give you any information to make conclusions, they are observations that bring up some questions to which you may want to find the answers and then take conclusions. Then we will be able to know what your values are and answer your question.

[Starise]

I don't see an imbalance as an issue here. If it makes you feel uncomfortable because the imbalance is extreme, then I would pray for the Lord's guidance. If it's an excuse not to attend a Bible study then this isn't about women.

I attend a group with older attendees in it. There are more women than men. No one planned for it to happen. Generally speaking women outlive men. Many of these women lost their husbands in death.

 

[teddyv]

Perhaps the study itself is of more interest to the ladies?

[Abrielle]

1 hour ago, Abrielle said:

 

No, those statements are not misogynistic, yet. Depending on your thought process, who knows.
I would make the same observations, if i were in a similar situation, however:

Those two statements don't give you any information to make conclusions, they are observations that bring up some questions to which you may want to find the answers and then take conclusions. Then we will be able to know what your values are and answer your question.

 

I have to add what kind of questions must be answered, before any judgment, because "women to men ratio" does not mean anything by itself.

Are you in a country/city where women are usually in a larger number anywhere? What is these women's group age range? Are some single, some married, some widows? How do they relate to the leader? Do they try to please him and look for his approval, does he reply to this in a manipulative manner? Is this leader more sensible to certain issues that make women more comfortable?  How does this leader deal with married women who have their husbands out of the church? How do these women relate to each other, are they friends and help each other, or is there a competitive interaction? Etc. There are leaders who are more sensible, which can be comforting for women, and it is a shame to judge these leaders as if they had a personal agenda, just because of a ratio.

The priority would never be if this church can serve me well, but "What positive role can i have here?".

When we have good discernment, which in itself is a gift from God, God will help us to do something good out of it. We are not to build our own pedestales. If something weird is happening and if you are able to see it, then probably you will be given tools to help not just yourself but others.

[SIC]

2 hours ago, Starise said:

I don't see an imbalance as an issue here. If it makes you feel uncomfortable because the imbalance is extreme, then I would pray for the Lord's guidance. If it's an excuse not to attend a Bible study then this isn't about women.

I attend a group with older attendees in it. There are more women than men. No one planned for it to happen. Generally speaking women outlive men. Many of these women lost their husbands in death.

 

The church has other small groups. Only this one has such a skewed ratio. The mix is more even in other small groups. So I decided to decline this and join another

[Starise]

15 minutes ago, SIC said:

The church has other small groups. Only this one has such a skewed ratio. The mix is more even in other small groups. So I decided to decline this and join another

Sounds like a good call for you. In my case it isn't gender that's the issue. It's age. I am beginning to feel as if my wife and I are out numbered by older people. Like you we had the option to join other groups in our church. I will probably do this. The people in my group are all retired. It's just a whole different life and is a constant reminder to me that I am one of the minority who is still working. The kicker is many of the other groups are younger than us, so we are sort of in between. It's nice to draw on the wisdom from those older people, but their struggles are not similar to our struggles right now. We just don't have much in common with them. There is one other group that might fit us better.

Having something like a 90/10 or 80/20 in favor of women ratio might make me as a man feel like the issues addressed would be primarily for women and therefore might make me feel like a 3rd wheel.OTOH having an almost entirely male group would miss valuable input we might get from the fairer sex. 

I don't believe we can fault anyone for the imbalance. It just is what it is. It's nice to have options.

NOTE- To be clear, these groups are not our regular church fellowship. We all get together for that. These are what we call "Home groups" or "Small groups".

Edited September 22, 2021 by Starise

[SIC]

5 minutes ago, Starise said:

Sounds like a good call for you. In my case it isn't gender that's the issue. It's age. I am beginning to feel as if my wife and I are out numbered by older people. Like you we had the option to join other groups in our church. I will probably do this. The people in my group are all retired. It's just a whole different life and is a constant reminder to me that I am one of the minority who is still working. The kicker is many of the other groups are younger than us, so we are sort of in between. It's nice to draw on the wisdom from those older people, but their struggles are not similar to our struggles right now. We just don't have much in common with them. There is one other group that might fit us better.

Having something like a 90/10 or 80/20 in favor of women ratio might make me as a man feel like the issues addressed would be primarily for women and therefore might make me feel like a 3rd wheel.OTOH having an almost entirely male group would miss valuable input we might get from the fairer sex. 

I don't believe we can fault anyone for the imbalance. It just is what it is. It's nice to have options.

NOTE- To be clear, these groups are not our regular church fellowship. We all get together for that. These are what we call "Home groups" or "Small groups".

The leader of the small group, who was a male,called me misogynistic for making that decision. That's why I came here to ask for people's opinion. In my opinion, Christian men usually learn from other Christian men and Christian women learn from other Christian women. Sure men can learn from women and vice versa but that cannot replace fellowshipping with other men.

[Abrielle]

1 hour ago, SIC said:

The leader of the small group, who was a male,called me misogynistic for making that decision. That's why I came here to ask for people's opinion. In my opinion, Christian men usually learn from other Christian men and Christian women learn from other Christian women. Sure men can learn from women and vice versa but that cannot replace fellowshipping with other men.

This wasn't in reply to me, but it was clarifying.

I completely misinterpreted your original post. I thought you were worried that something fishy was going on, and that you could sound misogynistic in your approach.

The title of this thread asks for everybody's opinions, but especially the ladies'. I leave this thread very confused, asking myself why does the opinion of female members in a forum matter, when you already decided that a group with more women than men has less to offer than what you want.

If there are men in that group, then you have male fellowship there too.
I don't like to use worldly definitions, like "misogyny", i prefer to talk about christian love and i wonder if the sisters of that group will feel unloved or not, once they hear about your reasons to leave the group.

 

[Starise]

1 hour ago, SIC said:

The leader of the small group, who was a male,called me misogynistic for making that decision. That's why I came here to ask for people's opinion. In my opinion, Christian men usually learn from other Christian men and Christian women learn from other Christian women. Sure men can learn from women and vice versa but that cannot replace fellowshipping with other men.

Well I had to look up the definition for misogynistic lol! Not a word I use every day.

I don't believe that you were. Depending on how you mentioned it to your pastor he apparently thought you were, so maybe it was the way you communicated those concerns that was misunderstood. Looks to me like you're trying to find a group you identify with best.

If a person wanted to get really particular about this, they could ask how many is too many? Where is the tipping point? I mean, you could have a group of 16 with 10 very passive women who mostly listen or you could have a group with only 5 women who command the floor far too often and basically won't let the men speak. IOW numbers aren't necessarily an indicator if what you are considering is getting advise and instruction from men for your situations. It really only takes one premadonna man or woman to muck things up.

Probably the most important thing to ask is- Is everyone in the group spirit led and spirit fed? These things are give and take. If it isn't working out this way and you feel cheated of a good lesson time maybe it's time to move on. There are extremes though. If I were in a group with 16 people and ten of them were women who only wanted to discuss their pregnancies then I don't think I would be around very long.

I have also been to men only groups who could only talk  about pickup trucks and hunting. A one hour lesson time with 10 minutes of spiritual discussion. I left that group. It was at another church.