As in the Days of Noe.

[The Light]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

What matters is that we stay faithful to what is written in God's word and this interpretation Noah and his family were "lifted up" is not faithful to what is written; it is an interpretation. Noah was not lifted up above the destruction; he sailed through the destruction that was all around him. He escaped the destruct that was all around him. 

Noah was already inside the ark 7 days before the flood, even as the Church will be in heaven during the 70th week of Daniel.

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

Matthew 24:9
"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name." 

Matthew 24:21-22
"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short." 

Matthew 24:29 ESV
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

These events occur during the 6 seals with the coming of Jesus occurring at the 6th seal.

The 24 elders are in heaven with crowns in Rev 4 and the Church is in heaven in Rev 5 before the seals are opened.

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

They will deliver you (the disciples of Jesus) over to tribulation. For the sake of the elect the days of tribulation will be cut short. After the tribulation Jesus will be seen coming. That is what the text actually states. It plainly states the disciples will be "handed over" to tribulation.

They experience tribulation. They are NOT raptured away in escape of the tribulation; they are handed over to it.

Just as it was in the days of Noah the flood came and took away those it destroyed and just as it was in the days of Noah those chosen by God, those living in a God-initiated covenant relationship with God sailed through the destruction and remained; they remained living on earth in a covenant relationship with God and at no point did they leave the planet. 

It matters. 

 

It is the Jews that go through the tribulation. The Church will not be on the earth at this time.

Don't you see the Church in heaven in Rev 19?

And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Don't you see all those in heaven returning to earth with Jesus as part of the armies of heaven?

Rev 19

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

[The Light]

9 minutes ago, Josheb said:

It did not leave the planet. It is an abuse of scripture to imply it did leave the planet. It is an abuse of scripture to imply a boat floating on water above the ground of the earth is in any way comparable to a rapture. The only Christians who do so are those who are pre-trib rapturists looking for justification of their views. No one else in Christendom reads The Matthew 24 and Luke 17 texts that way. 

I am not interpreting anything. Jesus plainly stated the flood came and took them away and destroyed them It was those people who were removed  from the earth. No interpretation needed whatsoever. No interpretation added whatsoever. 

A boat floating on water above the earth while destruction ensues all around it is not comparable to Christians being removed from the planet to escape destruction. 

When the Son of Man comes, He will be in the clouds and there will be a rapture. 

Matt 24

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 14

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

[Cntrysner]

20 minutes ago, Josheb said:

It did not leave the planet. It is an abuse of scripture to imply it did leave the planet. It is an abuse of scripture to imply a boat floating on water above the ground of the earth is in any way comparable to a rapture.

Scripture states the ark lifted up above the earth and that is exactly what it did.

 

23 minutes ago, Josheb said:

A boat floating on water above the earth while destruction ensues all around it is not comparable to Christians being removed from the planet to escape destruction.

Destruction all around but not in the ark as it was floating on water above the earth. This is a type, Noah did not have to leave the atmosphere. 

[Cntrysner]

Mat 24:40  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken (G3880), and the other left.

G3880

From G3844 and G2983; to receive near, that is, associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy to assume an office; figuratively to learn: - receive, take (unto, with). 

The ones taken were not destroyed.

[David1701]

5 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

Mat 24:40  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken (G3880), and the other left.

G3880

From G3844 and G2983; to receive near, that is, associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy to assume an office; figuratively to learn: - receive, take (unto, with). 

The ones taken were not destroyed.

Matt. 24:37-42 (Webster)

 37 But as the days of Noah were , so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
  38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
  39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so also will be the coming of the Son of man.
  40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
  41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
  42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord cometh.

---The ones taken away, those unconcernedly eating, drinking and marrying, were taken away by the Flood, since they had not entered the Ark.  They all perished.

[Cntrysner]

42 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Matt. 24:37-42 (Webster)

 37 But as the days of Noah were , so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
  38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
  39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so also will be the coming of the Son of man.
  40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
  41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
  42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord cometh.

---The ones taken away, those unconcernedly eating, drinking and marrying, were taken away by the Flood, since they had not entered the Ark.  They all perished.

Matt 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

taken definition in this verse:

Strong's #3880: paralambano (pronounced par-al-am-ban'-o)

from 3844 and 2983; to receive near, i.e. associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy, to assume an office; figuratively, to learn:--receive, take (unto, with

Thayer's Greek Lexicó

paralambano

1) to take to, to take with one' s self, to join to one' s self

1a) an associate, a companion

1b) metaphorically

1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be

1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience

Examples of it's usage:

"of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife; for"

 "had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:"

"going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart"

"all that they had done. And he took them, and went aside privately"

"unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;"

"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk"

Edited November 19, 2021 by Cntrysner
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[DeighAnn]

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by DeighAnn

[David1701]

4 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

Matt 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

taken definition in this verse:

Strong's #3880: paralambano (pronounced par-al-am-ban'-o)

from 3844 and 2983; to receive near, i.e. associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy, to assume an office; figuratively, to learn:--receive, take (unto, with

Thayer's Greek Lexicó

paralambano

1) to take to, to take with one' s self, to join to one' s self

1a) an associate, a companion

1b) metaphorically

1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be

1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience

Examples of it's usage:

"of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife; for"

 "had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:"

"going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart"

"all that they had done. And he took them, and went aside privately"

"unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;"

"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk"

I've checked, and you're right about the meaning of paralambano.  I also checked the meaning of the Greek word translated "took", in verse 39.

Matt. 24:39 (KJV) And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

G142 (Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries)
G142 αἴρω airo (ai'-ro) v.
1. to lift up
2. (by implication) to take up or away
3. (figuratively) to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind)
4. (specially) to sail away (i.e. weigh anchor)
5. (by Hebraism) to atone for sin

--Food for thought...

[Your closest friendnt]

12 hours ago, Cntrysner said:

Matt 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

taken definition in this verse:

Strong's #3880: paralambano (pronounced par-al-am-ban'-o)

from 3844 and 2983; to receive near, i.e. associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy, to assume an office; figuratively, to learn:--receive, take (unto, with

Thayer's Greek Lexicó

paralambano

1) to take to, to take with one' s self, to join to one' s self

1a) an associate, a companion

1b) metaphorically

1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be

1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience

Examples of it's usage:

"of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife; for"

 "had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:"

"going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart"

"all that they had done. And he took them, and went aside privately"

"unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;"

"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk"

The scriptures said 

ΚΑΤΑ ΛΟΥΚΑΝ 17:27 Greek NT: Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
ἤσθιον, ἔπινον, ἐγάμουν, ἐξεγαμίζοντο, ἄχρι ἧς ἡμέρας εἰσῆλθε Νῶε εἰς τὴν κιβωτόν, καὶ ἦλθεν ὁ κατακλυσμός, καὶ ἀπώλεσεν ἅπαντας. 

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

* Jesus told his disciples something that they were familiar with he told them the story of Noah.

He told them what they knew already that THE DAY NOAH ENTER IN THE ARK THE FLOOD CAME AND (APOLAISEN PANTAS) NO ONE SURVIVED. 

*In Genesis the TEXT says the same thing, that's how Luke narrates this passage because that's how the Scribes and the Jews taught it in the Synagogues.

In Genesis we read that God as soon as the Ark got ready the Lord gave Noah seven days to short the animals who were coming in the Ark by themselves and on this day on the second month the rain came and Noah went into the Ark and shut the door.

For about seven days the animals were coming into the Ark.

[The Light]

On 11/19/2021 at 2:25 PM, Josheb said:

Yep. That much is true. 

That much is not entirely true. At best you could say he was in a place of safety during which the destruction began because the rain had begun; it simply hadn't reached the point of being a destructive flood. 

Big Fail. 

What did I request? 

I asked for ways in which scripture itself connects the 7 with the 70. All I have received is a highly interpretive cut-and-paste eisegesis based on an already existing eschatological viewpoint. What I just received is the way you connect the 7 and the 70, not the way scripture itself does so. 

 

For example, Matthew 24:37 directly connect the Olivet Discourse to the Genesis flood. No one has to infer, hypothesize, or speculate about a connect between Matthew 24 and Genesis 6-9 because the text itself makes that connection!!!!! Jesus himself explicitly mentions Noah and connects the listener to Genesis. 

So I am asking you where scripture itself explicitly makes such a connection between those specific 7 days specifically to the the 70 of Daniel's 70 weeks. I don't want your eschatologically eisegetic connections; I want the connections scripture itself makes. 

So try it again. Try it again because I am happy to read any such connections that actually do exist -if such connections actually do exist. 

 

And if no such connections do exist then we have the problem of pitting the connections plainly stated in the Olivet texts against connections that don't actually anywhere exist in scripture. 

Matt 24

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

On 11/19/2021 at 2:25 PM, Josheb said:

 

In the days of Noah the flood waters took away those it destroyed and while Noah and his ilk were safe inside the ark they were not removed from the planet; they road safely through the destruction that was occurring all around them and it is Jesus himself that explicitly makes those connections. No interpretation needed, wanted, or necessary. 

Gen 7

17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.