As in the Days of Noe.

[Dennis1209]

15 hours ago, appy said:

Kwik gave a good response. The flood in Noah's day was God's judgment upon the whole world as a whole, and not just limited to a region or specific people. It affected every living thing. The people in that day were caught off guard and taken by surprise so to speak. The point Jesus is making is that there will be another judgment coming upon the whole world, that will also take the world as a whole by surprise just as God's judgment in Noah's day did. And it will affect all of creation not just humans.

The judgments in the days of the kings didn't affect the whole globe or other living creatures as Noah's flood did. Jesus is pointing out that just as Noah's flood was a day of swift and devastating judgment so will there be a time like it again in the future. A day of devastating judgment. And the world will not go out with a bang, but a whimper.

2 Peter 3:7-10
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.  But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.  The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.  But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare

I see your point and that makes sense. I suppose I was thinking in terms of the "whole world", being the known world, Babylon was basically master of the whole world at the time. It took a long time for the descendants of Shem, Ham and Japeth at the Tower of Babel, to migrate and expand well beyond the cradle of civilization and form new tribes and nations in distant lands. For me anyway, sometimes it is hard to distinguish the difference between the "whole world", as in the known world geographical area, and the entire planet. 

While I'm on the subject, Israel in general, and Jerusalem in particular is the center of the earth, and God's prophetic time clock. Most compass directions given in the Bible, are from Jerusalem (I.e. King of the North, East, etc.). All writing East of Israel is written and read from right to left. The opposite to the West. In other words, Israel, the middle-East and the European Union are the biblical center of attention. This brings up some interesting prophetic end-time questions on a number of things, pertaining to the entire world. 

For instance, the Antichrist and the One World global economic, political and religious system. Will Russia, China, N. Korea, Islam and other dictatorial countries, give up their sovereignty without a great fight?  I don't think so. United Nations Agenda 2021 and Agenda 2030, are near implementation of the Antichrist global beast system. Certainly, these dictator countries are not going to bow down to its requirements and harsh terms. Therefore, it cannot be a total Antichrist global one world government and system. 

Revelation 8:7 (KJV) The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

Is this confined to the Mediterranean Sea area, a hemisphere or different planetary locations? If this were planetary, it would be close to a planetary extinction event. All green grass globally, or specific spots? What and where ignites these fires; asteroids, CME'S, solar flare, volcanic activity, a nuclear exchange? 

We do not have long to wait before the world witnesses the establishment of the Beast system, it is on schedule with U.N. time tables and the prophetic fast track. By or before 2030, it will be initiated. America, the last baston of freedom and serious resistance is intentionally being destroyed, rapidly self-destructing, to make way and implement the New World Order. The global slogan that O'Biden adopted from the United Nations, "BUILD BACK BETTEER", is being implemented. To build back, assumes the existing first must be destroyed.

If the Beast system is here and will be implemented by 2030, or sooner. All the plans and technology are in place to carry out all buying and selling, etc. That assumes the Tribulation is very near. If the Tribulation is that close, how much closer is the coming of our Lord for His bride?

Yet another Dennis tangent, sorry...

Edited October 21, 2021 by Dennis1209

[appy]

When a person says “all over the world” do they just mean a single country alone? All nations, tribes, and tongues as a whole all around the globe is called “the world” so to speak. There are people on every continent and the continents as a whole are referred to as the world right?

Every nation all over the earth is already immoral and exceedingly wicked. The bible says that ALL have sinned, there is not one human on this earth that has not sinned. God is giving “the world” meaning all peoples of every nation, tribe and tongue time to repent, before he brings judgment upon the world meaning the entire globe. This judgment will not just affect humans, but ALL of creation.  Including the earth, and the heavens as a whole.

Isaiah  34:4  (NIV)
All the stars in the sky will be dissolved  and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall   like withered leaves from the vine,   like shriveled figs from the fig tree.

Isaiah  51:6  (NIV)
Lift up your eyes to the heavens,   look at the earth beneath; the heavens will vanish like smoke,   the earth will wear out like a garment  and its inhabitants die like flies. But my salvation will last forever,  my righteousness will never fail.

Isaiah 65:17
“See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

Matthew  24:25  (NIV)
Heaven and earth will pass away,

God is already delaying judgment to give more people time to repent. This delay will only be for so long and is inevitable. Knowing all the nitty gritty details of when and how all this will take place is not going to prevent, or delay what's to come upon the world. It is coming because of the world's refusal to turn from rebellion.

[Dennis1209]

On 10/21/2021 at 9:03 PM, appy said:

When a person says “all over the world” do they just mean a single country alone? All nations, tribes, and tongues as a whole all around the globe is called “the world” so to speak. There are people on every continent and the continents as a whole are referred to as the world right?

Every nation all over the earth is already immoral and exceedingly wicked. The bible says that ALL have sinned, there is not one human on this earth that has not sinned. God is giving “the world” meaning all peoples of every nation, tribe and tongue time to repent, before he brings judgment upon the world meaning the entire globe. This judgment will not just affect humans, but ALL of creation.  Including the earth, and the heavens as a whole.

Isaiah  34:4  (NIV)
All the stars in the sky will be dissolved  and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall   like withered leaves from the vine,   like shriveled figs from the fig tree.

Isaiah  51:6  (NIV)
Lift up your eyes to the heavens,   look at the earth beneath; the heavens will vanish like smoke,   the earth will wear out like a garment  and its inhabitants die like flies. But my salvation will last forever,  my righteousness will never fail.

Isaiah 65:17
“See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

Matthew  24:25  (NIV)
Heaven and earth will pass away,

God is already delaying judgment to give more people time to repent. This delay will only be for so long and is inevitable. Knowing all the nitty gritty details of when and how all this will take place is not going to prevent, or delay what's to come upon the world. It is coming because of the world's refusal to turn from rebellion.

I agree, no arguments here, but this leads to an interesting question? 

Romans 5:12 (KJV) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

The whole creation, is the entire universe part of the whole creation? If so, how did one man's sin, standing on the surface of the earth, effect and spread throughout the entire universe? How did sin and its effects get there?

Who sinned first, the Devil or Eve? Did and does Satan have access to the third Heaven, other dimensions, the entire created universe? Before the fall, did Adam have access to explore God's second heaven creation, or was he confined to the planet? 

There seems to be a number of similarities between Adam & Eve and the conditions of the Garden of Eden before the fall. And the new Earth and our new glorified bodies. Will we be allowed to explore the new creation (outer space)? 

Just interesting to think about. You ever get any wild thoughts like that?

[FortifiedbyFaith]

We are in the days of transhumanism. The re-creation of GOD’s creation. The elimination of all fallen angel polluted seed was the goal of the flood. Which will be the end goal of the apocalypse, as the infiltration of bad seed has occurred again. GOD’s pure seed are HIS chosen/elect - just as HE chose Noah and his family and GOD drove the selected animals to the ark to be included. The animals themselves had been tinkered with even in that day, creating hybrid forms of GOD’s original creation. Human poor morals in the form of fornication is only part of the issue today, it is rampant in nearly every aspect of life - the seeds of satan are manifest and growing. Which includes tinkering with our genetics and the genetics of the animals and food we eat. GOD said HE would not shared a temple. HE also said we are HIS temples. HE also said the temple would not be rebuilt by human hands, meaning the temples in those chosen ones are built up/supported by the Holy Spirit acting on GOD’s behalf, just as New Jerusalem will not be built by human hands, but rather is a place for us prepared for by GOD.

[The Light]

On 10/20/2021 at 7:52 AM, Dennis1209 said:

Matthew 24:38 (KJV) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, Luke 17:26 (KJV) And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27.  They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28.  Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

 

They ate and drank and married, UNTIL THE DAY NOAH ENTERED THE ARK. Noah entered the ark 7 days BEFORE the flood.

Gen 7

9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Noah entered the ark 7 days before the flood even, as the Church will raptured before the 70th week of Daniel.

Likewise ALSO as it was in the days of Lot. 

Luke 17

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

THEY ate, THEY drank, THEY bought , THEY sold, THEY planted THEY builded.

But the same day Lot went out of Sodom, destruction came.

Even as destruction will come and the Day of the Lord will begin the very day the 12 tribes are raptured from the earth. The 144,000 are the first fruits of this coming rapture.

There are two raptures. When the fullness of the Gentiles comes in at the pretribulation rapture, God will turn His attention to His Chosen. The twelve tribes will be raptured before the Day of the Lord begins. Only the nation of Israel and unbelievers go through the wrath of God. And those in the nation of Israel that flee will be protected during Gods wrath.

Edited November 10, 2021 by The Light

[The Light]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

That is not what happened in the days of Noah. 

Even as Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood so will the Church be raptured in the secret pretribulation rapture before the 70th week of Daniel.

[Dennis1209]

12 hours ago, The Light said:

They ate and drank and married, UNTIL THE DAY NOAH ENTERED THE ARK. Noah entered the ark 7 days BEFORE the flood.

Gen 7

9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Noah entered the ark 7 days before the flood even, as the Church will raptured before the 70th week of Daniel.

Likewise ALSO as it was in the days of Lot. 

Luke 17

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

THEY ate, THEY drank, THEY bought , THEY sold, THEY planted THEY builded.

But the same day Lot went out of Sodom, destruction came.

Even as destruction will come and the Day of the Lord will begin the very day the 12 tribes are raptured from the earth. The 144,000 are the first fruits of this coming rapture.

There are two raptures. When the fullness of the Gentiles comes in at the pretribulation rapture, God will turn His attention to His Chosen. The twelve tribes will be raptured before the Day of the Lord begins. Only the nation of Israel and unbelievers go through the wrath of God. And those in the nation of Israel that flee will be protected during Gods wrath.

Good morning,

We're pretty much on the same page, and naturally everyone has differing views. My view aligns with a number of scholars and Bible teachers, such as John MacAthur, there are three resurrections: 

Rev. 20:5 the rest of the dead. The bodies of unbelievers of all ages will not be resurrected until the Great White Throne judgment (vv. 12, 13). first resurrection. Scripture teaches two kinds of resurrections: the “resurrection of life” and “the resurrection of condemnation” (John 5:29; cf. Dan. 12:2; Acts 24:15). The first kind of resurrection is described as “the resurrection of the just” (Luke 14:14), the resurrection of “those who are Christ’s at His coming” (1 Cor. 15:23), and the “better resurrection” (Heb. 11:35). It includes only the redeemed of the church age (1 Thess. 4:13–18), the OT (Dan. 12:2), and the Tribulation (v. 4). They will enter the kingdom in resurrection bodies, along with believers who survived the Tribulation. The second kind of resurrection, then, will be the resurrection of the unconverted who will receive their final bodies suited for torment in hell. John MacArthur Jr., ed., The MacArthur Study Bible, electronic ed. (Nashville, TN: Word Pub., 1997), 2021.

Quote: "The twelve tribes will be raptured before the Day of the Lord begins." Question: How and why do you limit this only to the twelve tribes of Israel? 

Many would agree biblical numerology has great significance and is symbolic in most cases. It's interesting the apostle John mentions the church 19 times in Revelation chapters 1-3. Then all of a sudden, the church is never mention again until chapter 19. All the attention has switched away from the church as if they are not there, and focuses on Israel, the Earthdweller's, and judgments. 

As with the New Jerusalem, the twelve gates (12 tribes of Israel), and the 12 foundations (twelve apostles) = 24, and are symbolic. I see the 24 Elders in heaven representing the general Rapture has occurred before the start of the seven-year Tribulation in chapter 6. Who is said to receive various crowns and rewards for their faith, winning souls, and service to the Lord? 

Just my hermeneutics and thoughts. Nothing that should divide Christians or argue about. It's not a Salvation issue. With all the views out there, it's obvious a lot of people are wrong. That "a lot of people" also includes me. Who has the correct view of all of scripture? How many people agree 100% with each other, with everything in the Bible? Will our Lord Jesus ever say, "I never knew you", because of our faulty hermeneutics? Of course not! 

I personally suspect, it will not be long before we all hear that trumpet and shout; whether it be Resurrection or Rapture. Then, there shall be no such terms as hermeneutics, eisegesis, exegesis, etc. 

[Justin Adams]

John Mac is to be questioned.

[Starise]

On 10/20/2021 at 8:52 AM, Dennis1209 said:

Matthew 24:38 (KJV) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, Luke 17:26 (KJV) And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27.  They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28.  Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

Hi Dennis,

My main take away on the above text is the attitude of the general population will be busy doing the things men do when they are busy with no inclination toward God.

WE ALL do the very things listed. Men were told by God to be fruitful and multiply on the earth. It's "business as usual" with respect to what goes on. The things men all get caught up into doing. The lust of the eyes, the pride of life with no real serious regard for God.

This all flies in the face of the idea there are these cataclysmic events taking place. Up until this happens it's business as usual. People going about a somewhat normal kind of existence.

Bringing other elements into the discussion adds more questions than answers, such as, if there is a mass conspiracy to ruin or taint human DNA, it isn't brought up here. Before the flood there was a motive to corrupt the human blood lines in order to attempt to prevent the messiah from coming as prophesied. After the flood I sort of fail to see a motive? Unless it's to make zombies of men, so to speak, in order to prevent men from thinking for themselves to see the truth. Conveniently blinded zombies? None of this is covered in the text given though and we only have what we see around us as a way to see how things are changing in that realm.

If anything, I see a feeling of normalcy in life for men when Jesus returns. Nothing even so extreme as COVID seems to be happening at this time. Humanity is coasting on auto pilot. In the short time I've been around men haven't changed. What happened in the 30' before I was born is still happening now. The good old days were the same sinful old days. 

So how can we have this normal human routine without God while at the same time the scriptures tell us evil men will be worse and worse? The two seem to be in contradiction.

What I tend to believe is men's routine is abhorrent to God. Their normal was far from normal. What they are doing in this text seems normal enough since it doesn't mention the gross violations of God's laws that took place before the flood. We know the antediluvian people who were here made fun of Noah. They thought he was a nut job or didn't give him enough consideration to care. 

This is exactly what is happening now. People think they have disproved Christianity. They think they are wiser. In their modern thought have found a better way ( or so they think) that doesn't include anything in the Bible which they sincerely believe to be a book of fables.

Those other things going on in the shadows with our DNA are not out in the open for us to fully know what they are doing. I feel as if the whole COVID thing ties into it somehow. 

The point in this though I think is this: Men have no regard for God, same as it has been for my whole life. This part of it is getting worse. Men are not drawing nearer. They are drawing further away from God. They will be going about whatever their normal looks like right up until the very end. Apparently things won't be terribly bad up until that point for most. Then that cold slap in the face comes, but by then it will be too late.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Starise

[The Light]

13 hours ago, Josheb said:

No. 

In the days of Noah the ones who were taken away were the ones destroyed by God's wrath. It was those who remained behind who went on to live in a God-initiated covenant relationship with God. Matthew 24 and Luke 17 are NOT about the rapture. There's no mention of a rapture in either passage and what I just stated is what happened in the days of Noah. When Jesus speaks about two working on a roof or two working the fields and one of each being "taken" he is talking about the coming wrath and judgment, not about a rapture. Those taken of the roof and out of the field will be destroyed, just as it was in the days of Noah! 

It is those God spares that He loves. 

 

Matthew 24:37-41
"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,  and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.  "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.  "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left."

Luke 17:26-35
"And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:  they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.  It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;  but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.  It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.  On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.  Remember Lot's wife.  Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.  I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.  There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left."

 

Those taken away were destroyed. They were NOT raptured away into eternal bliss with Jesus. 

Isaiah 22:12-13; Luke 12:18-20; 1 Corinthians 15:32. Eating and drinking until the day they died. 

There are two comings of the son of Man. 

Luke 21

22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

What are the days of the son of man?

Luke 21

24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

The first time He comes it will be for His Church in the secret pretribulation rapture. That's why we see the elders in heaven in Rev 4 with crowns. That's why we see kings and priests in heaven in Rev 5 before the seals are opened. The opening of the seals is the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel.

The second rapture, when all eyes will see the coming of the Lord, occurs just prior to the Day of the Lord at the 6th seal. 

The 12 tribes across the earth will be raptured at the pre wrath rapture(or post trib, whatever you want to call it). The Church will return to the clouds with Jesus at the second rapture. The Church will be gathered FROM heaven and the 12 tribes across the earth will be gathered from the earth.

Mark 13

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

When the gathering from heaven and earth occurs, those that remain will go through the wrath of God. That means unbelievers will remain on earth during the wrath of God and those that flee in the nation of Israel to a place of protection will also remain on earth. (but will be protected, as none of Gods people are appointed to wrath)

Where do the ones that are taken go?

Luke 17

35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

The ones taken will be gathered by the angels to the clouds.

Rev 14

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

What happens to those that remain?

Rev 14

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Those that remain are cast into the wrath of God.