What's The Scariest Verse in the Bible???

[Bawb]

7 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Hmmm.... 

Am I to understand this op is a veiled attempt to address the place of the law in the life of a Christian? If so then do please by direct and plain answering that question so everyone is clear on the intent. 

You are new to the forum so let me give you a little advice NEVER make yourself the topic of discussion! I know the likely intent of those comments is self-effacing, modesty or perhaps a little humbleness but there are always those willing to exploit the opportunity. It is wisest to keep the posts about the posts and not the posters . 

The Olsteen crowd get soundly but respectfully thrashed in this forum. They don't typically stick around, or they post in the boards where they can find kinship, or they grow thick skins. Every Christian forum has a character of its own. 

 

You don't know me yet but I draw a lot of complaints. Few things I actually post violate the tou you; it's my direct style that puts some off. If this op is about the place of the OT law in the life of the Christian then you should know it is a common topic in most Christian forum and this one will see a handful of similar ops (opening posts) every year. Those of us with some time in the board know where most stand. I take a classic Reformed stance: the law is no longer the means of attaining righteousness or justification but it otherwise remains applicable in the life of the new covenant believer wherever it is reinforced in the New Testament. Where the law is explicitly annulled in the New Testament it no longer applies. Paul's commentary on the law in Romans 3-5 and Galatians 3 and James' commentary are all very specific and all explicitly limited. The context is explicitly stated: the law is no longer a means of obtaining righteousness or justification and it never was. Other than those two specified context, however, every single one of the New Testament writers referenced the OT laws AND applied them to both Jewish and Gentile converts to Christ. However, the usually did so in prinicple, not the letter of the law. An example of this would be the law prohibiting the muzzling of an ox while threshing grain. That law is referenced t least four times in the NT but none of those occasions have anything to do with oxen or grain threshing. 

It's that simple. 

I can point to scriptures in the NT demonstrably proving what I just wrote and I don't need to add any "interpretation" to do so. 

But, hey, what do I know . 

 

 

You mention "lawlessness" and appeal to the law, but the law and lawlessness is only one means of measuring sin. Are you aware of that? 

We are "Righteous-ed" and justified and saved ONLY by the blood of Yeshua, sacrificed on the tree. However, obedience to the Instructions equals blessings upon blessings from Father YHWH. And OBEYING His Instructions IS how He knows we LOVE Him. Anyone can say they love YHWH, but HIS Word says that we show HIM love, gratitude and loyalty by our willing obedience. Why wouldn't someone who professes to be a Christian do these things?

Also, "Jews" did not convert into anything. They already have the covenant with YHWH. They simply had to accept Yeshua as Messiah and Savior as their means of salvation.

Also, I would not brag about people complaining about me if I were you. Are we not supposed to treat our fellow believers with love and respect to fulfill all of the commands like Yeshua did?

Shalom Brother

 

[MrBear]

3 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Which would they be? 

 

Part of Jesus' point is that there are going to be those who in their own minds, their own understanding are convinced of their qualification. They are not going to claim to have prophesied AND be unloving. More germane to my inquiry is this: no one here has any power or authority to judge another person's eternal disposition. Anyone who falsely imagines themselves capable of doing so has broken the First Commandment by assuming themselves in the place of The Judge. 

You're going to meet posters in this forum like that. They'll be happy to tell you about your eternal disposition. 

So you gird up, brother and remember Whose you are. 

And don't worry about anyone else's salvation but your own. 

Even trolls might make to the other side of resurrection . 

You might consider connecting Matthew 7:21-23 with Galatians 6:9. 

 

Galatians 4:1-11
"Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything,  but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father.  So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world.  But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.  Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"  Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.  However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods.  But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?  You observe days and months and seasons and years.  I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain."

 

The contexts are important. Where Jesus was speaking to Jews in pre-Calvary and pre-Pentecost days Paul is writing to regenerate new covenant believers. Where Jesus calls his audience's known-ness into question Paul treats it as a given. 

 

Agreed brother context is important ?

And I also agree paul assumes the reader already understands what is being said like the controversial “ taskmaster” or the “ unclothed” letters he writes, assuming his audience is familiar with scripture because he addressed them beforehand, so context is where people can get sidelined

TY for pointing that out Brother

SHALOM❤️

[Your closest friendnt]

11 hours ago, Bawb said:

And yet there are a few folks who believe the Torah was nailed to the cross... This seems kind of out of place to me, but what do I know? I'm still a work in progress, one of those people who learn by doing and asking questions, sometimes what other people would think to be dumb questions.

Also, not everyone is at the "expert level" of being a Christian, myself definitely included.

Finally, as in the world, I would assume there could be a remote chance that a slice population of the "Joel Osteen happy fun time happy church" that could be here and might be possibly a little misguided. What do you think?

When the Justice is giving instructions to the Jury there is something that he will emphasize more than once. 

As a result of that the members of the Jury when they end their duty as a member of the Jury they are different individuals, and can never be the same.

His instructions are to hold everyone accountable to his words and to require proof and proof of the proof. 

It means is not easy from that time on to get an agreement with them by appealing to their feelings, moods and the way it will compliment the powers that are working within themselves. 

To offer your opinion about someone else with or without proof or with or without the actual facts that can be considered that support your opinion it may be considered as a departure  OF THE POLICIES AND REGULATIONS THAT SETS THE TONE FOR A FAIR ENGAGEMENT IN A CONVERSATION. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

 

@Bawb

  3 hours ago, Bawb said:

And yet there are a few folks who believe the Torah was nailed to the cross... This seems kind of out of place to me, but what do I know? 

*****it not about how the post is written and it is at the same time, but still it identify the issue and there is a s scripture that can be attached to the issue at hand that can be discussed and that's what is more important. 

" and yet there a few folks who believe....." 

The statement above seeks to examine what a few folks believe. 

And then: "This seems kind of out of place to me". 

"This has to do about someones opinion".

And then!

"But what do I know".

******this is about someone who is asking for help, to settle this matter according not to what others believe or to what ones opinion is about this matter but whether there is something written in the bible and by whom that can help us to form a belief without the reasonable doubt. 

*****Collosians 2:

New International Version
having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

New Living Translation
He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross.

English Standard Version
by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

Berean Study Bible
having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross! 

*****

the above scriptures may and it does include the Covenant of Sinai.

The Covenant of Sinai was also nailed to the Cross. 

At the Cross many things changed, many things became new.

*****

The question is, why people who persecute some people in their midst for questioning their doctrine about the bible or better some part of a something in the bible they read Colosians 2: and yet they do not want to accept it or try to understand something about it.

Fist Colossians it dies not say that because of the Law being nailed on the Cross, that everyone can do as he pleases...without any warning from the Holy Spirit or from Jesus. 

Colossians should be read together with other scriptures as the one who is telling us that the Law of God is written in our hearts. 

The above scripture is helping us to understand the why Jesus Christ did not write down or draft a Law of contact that regulates the behavior of the believers as Moses did with the Sinai Covenant.  

That time the people under the Law they did not have the Law written in their heart, within the understanding of the living word of God alive in their heart.

Of course it can be argued that they had the Law written in their heart because they can recite it and tell what it says and this is their guidance, this is they guided them selves according to how their conscience in their heart was guiding them and according to their understanding.  

This is why they crucified Jesus Christ AMEN.

This is it, when they got offended or angry they acted accordingly, they had to find their peace. 

they did not had the Spirit of God in their heart to help them see beyond their offence and their mind altering anger.

***Another reason is that Jesus Christ is not giving or guiding or asking from everyone to abide in the same list of rules of conduct. 

His rules are tailor made for everyone and are change accordingly to their unique situations and he is the one who brings them up according to a lot of variables....Paul has some examples and teaching about how Jesus Christ leads everyone individually by the hand. 

And also how Jesus Christ can lead a group of believers as to exist as groups.

With the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit. 

[appy]

6 hours ago, Bawb said:

Those not showing love... disobeying His Commandments. Continuing in unrepentant sin and abusing Grace by means of knowingly continuing in sin...

Usually when an individual  brings up “unrepentant sin” and  disobeying Jesus' commands” it is most often ends up referring to sabbath keeping.  Any “sabbath keeping” discussion becomes lengthy and always ends in a “stalemate” with threads either locked or deleted.  There are no winners in the debate.

If anyone wishes to observe the sabbath day. That is up to him or her, no one will stop them. They are certainly free to do so. By the same token those who wish to set another day aside, and regard it as a  special day, they are free to do so also.  Each person is free to decide.

Any teaching becomes legalistic and displays itself as pride, and self-righteousness when we as individuals require and/ or demand others emulate as we do. Legalism concentrates on, and demands external conformity. And secretly judges others who do not do as it does. Legalism is not content to live as it sees fit, and leave others alone.

It desires to bring everyone under its system of bondage. The Apostle Paul taught that legalism is to be avoided. We are saved by God's grace and not by a system of Bondage.   We are saved by grace alone, so no man may boast in his righteousness.

 We are NOT called to be morality cops, but to share the gospel message with the lost.    

Do as the Lord leads "YOU, YOURSELF",(collective you, no one here specifically) and let God do the leading of others.

Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.

Colossians 2:20
Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:

Colossians 2:23
Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

 

[Hopefully]

“The worms that eat the people in hell never die. The fire there is never stopped.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭9:48‬ ‭
 

Hi @Bawb here is another scary one. The verse you posted is scary too.  I don’t find them scary because I believe they will happen to me but scary because it’s going to happen to some people and I care about people and want the best for them. 

[Dennis1209]

15 hours ago, Bawb said:

Is it in the Book of Revelation? No, not even close! How about the Book of Matthew?

Matthew 7:22-23 states "Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!"

What is lawlessness as define by the Scriptures?

1 John 3:4 - "Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness."

And yet there who are those who believe the law was done away with... The lawless?

Some people ignore this verse (especially the once saved always saved crowd) and say it's about unbelievers. But do unbelievers prophesy, drive out demons and perform miracles in the name of Yeshua?

Does Yeshua know you? How does He know You?

 

There's a lot of heartbreaking bad news one can experience here in the flesh: Your mother was just diagnosed with terminal cancer, your daughter just perished in a head on automobile crash, and so on. 

Whether it is you, a family member or loved one; there is nothing more horrific and personal, than hearing the Lord Jesus speak, "depart from me, I never knew you." Those words are eternal, no second chances, eternal torment and separation from God. IMO, those are the most chilling words in the Bible!

Matthew 7:22-23: By referring to Himself as Lord and depicting Himself as the ultimate Judge of humanity, Jesus implied His deity. True disciples affirm Jesus’ lordship, submit to His authority, and obey His commands. Jesus insisted that a person is confirmed as a true disciple not by prophecy, exorcism, or working miracles but by living a transformed life made possible by God. The disobedient lifestyles of lawbreakers are inconsistent with genuine discipleship. Jesus’ words, I never knew you, show that these were never truly disciples. Charles L. Quarles 

There appears to be a difference: Mark 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40. For he that is not against us is on our part. 

It appears to me; both Christians and non-Christians have the authority to exercise some demons, in Jesus' Name. Sort of reminds me of RCC exorcisms. 

Apparently, even the disciples could not exorcise very powerful demons?

Mark 9:28 (KJV) And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out? 29. And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

 

[Mama Etna]

4 hours ago, appy said:

Usually when an individual  brings up “unrepentant sin” and  disobeying Jesus' commands” it is most often ends up referring to sabbath keeping.  Any “sabbath keeping” discussion becomes lengthy and always ends in a “stalemate” with threads either locked or deleted.  There are no winners in the debate.

If anyone wishes to observe the sabbath day. That is up to him or her, no one will stop them. They are certainly free to do so. By the same token those who wish to set another day aside, and regard it as a  special day, they are free to do so also.  Each person is free to decide.

Any teaching becomes legalistic and displays itself as pride, and self-righteousness when we as individuals require and/ or demand others emulate as we do. Legalism concentrates on, and demands external conformity. And secretly judges others who do not do as it does. Legalism is not content to live as it sees fit, and leave others alone.

It desires to bring everyone under its system of bondage. The Apostle Paul taught that legalism is to be avoided. We are saved by God's grace and not by a system of Bondage.   We are saved by grace alone, so no man may boast in his righteousness.

 We are NOT called to be morality cops, but to share the gospel message with the lost.    

Do as the Lord leads "YOU, YOURSELF",(collective you, no one here specifically) and let God do the leading of others.

Colossians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.

Colossians 2:20
Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:

Colossians 2:23
Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

 

I have run across the 'unrepentant sin' argument used against Christians that go to church on Sunday many times.  I do not believe that is what the verse is talking about.

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

There's a lot of heartbreaking bad news one can experience here in the flesh: Your mother was just diagnosed with terminal cancer, your daughter just perished in a head on automobile crash, and so on. 

Whether it is you, a family member or loved one; there is nothing more horrific and personal, than hearing the Lord Jesus speak, "depart from me, I never knew you." Those words are eternal, no second chances, eternal torment and separation from God. IMO, those are the most chilling words in the Bible!

Matthew 7:22-23: By referring to Himself as Lord and depicting Himself as the ultimate Judge of humanity, Jesus implied His deity. True disciples affirm Jesus’ lordship, submit to His authority, and obey His commands. Jesus insisted that a person is confirmed as a true disciple not by prophecy, exorcism, or working miracles but by living a transformed life made possible by God. The disobedient lifestyles of lawbreakers are inconsistent with genuine discipleship. Jesus’ words, I never knew you, show that these were never truly disciples. Charles L. Quarles 

There appears to be a difference: Mark 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40. For he that is not against us is on our part. 

It appears to me; both Christians and non-Christians have the authority to exercise some demons, in Jesus' Name. Sort of reminds me of RCC exorcisms. 

Apparently, even the disciples could not exorcise very powerful demons?

Mark 9:28 (KJV) And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out? 29. And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

 

Is this a declaration to let others know that your posting is questioning the totality of the finished work of Jesus Christ on the Cross or that you a declaration is made that only those who are free from iniquity are Saved.

This is how your posting come across to the readers. 

What is it this that made you take the standing position that Jesus is sending those people to Hell...besides the standing on this or that fellows believes. 

I would like to know is this an opinionated belief or it is established with scriptures.  

Both prophetic and New Testament scriptures. 

[Starise]

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

There's a lot of heartbreaking bad news one can experience here in the flesh: Your mother was just diagnosed with terminal cancer, your daughter just perished in a head on automobile crash, and so on. 

Whether it is you, a family member or loved one; there is nothing more horrific and personal, than hearing the Lord Jesus speak, "depart from me, I never knew you." Those words are eternal, no second chances, eternal torment and separation from God. IMO, those are the most chilling words in the Bible!

Matthew 7:22-23: By referring to Himself as Lord and depicting Himself as the ultimate Judge of humanity, Jesus implied His deity. True disciples affirm Jesus’ lordship, submit to His authority, and obey His commands. Jesus insisted that a person is confirmed as a true disciple not by prophecy, exorcism, or working miracles but by living a transformed life made possible by God. The disobedient lifestyles of lawbreakers are inconsistent with genuine discipleship. Jesus’ words, I never knew you, show that these were never truly disciples. Charles L. Quarles 

There appears to be a difference: Mark 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40. For he that is not against us is on our part. 

It appears to me; both Christians and non-Christians have the authority to exercise some demons, in Jesus' Name. Sort of reminds me of RCC exorcisms. 

Apparently, even the disciples could not exorcise very powerful demons?

Mark 9:28 (KJV) And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out? 29. And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

 

When I read the passage where God addresses the unsaved persons who claim to have cast out demons, worked miracles and done other things, I don't take away that they  legitimately did these things. God never confirms they did any of it. They could not have done it in God's power because they don't belong to Him. I think these would be the false teachers who go around and make it seem as if they are doing these things. It's the only tool left in their arsenal as a hopeful reason to be let off the hook.

It would be similar to saying, " Lord didn't I represent you in doing these works or did I do your work here?"

The answer is of course, no. All actions were illegitimate. These people were in it for vain glory and money. They never experienced a conversion. You can likely recall at least a few of these characters right now. Most of them on TV asking for money all the time. The ones who seat healthy people in wheel chairs to be "healed" later or pull chicken gizzards from their pockets claiming to have removed cancerous tumors. Most men are not fooled by this and God CERTAINLY isn't.