demonic attack or not?

[Ovedya]

I don't think anyone's trying to pigeonhole you, Karen. Many of us, when we read something like you wrote above, immediately think of word-faith because, having come out of that movement, we know all the catch phrases, etc. Nobody would argue for one minute that faith is not needed in any situation encountered by a believer.

[OneAccord]

Karen C.:

Hello, Sister! I did not mean to offend, I understand where you come from, and I respect your ministry in a big way, and I know that the Lord is using you for His purpose, and you have a boldness that I envy!!

I also know you are not WoF, I've PMed with you about that in the past. I came out of the church i was in with an attitude that I am trying to temper.

I believe totally in demonic strongholds and that some believers are gifted to cast out demons, there's examples in the NT of this, as we all know.

I just don't believe that all problems are caused by demons, and I believe that God allows some problems, even ones caused by demons to exist in some people for a reason....Job, for example. Ultimately for His glory.

I've witnessed plenty of healing and deliverance attempts that simply DID NOT WORK. We were told to believe that they had, to believe in those things which aren't as though they were.

So where does the afflicted one go when the deliverance attempts fail? If my little Sophie had a broken arm and faith didn't set bone, I'm bringing her to the doctor. I wish I could say I had enough faith to allow God to set that bone, but I guess I'm not there yet.

I thought after several healing services that the pastor looked a little foolish commanding all these healings that didn't happen. What a strange testimony for an unbeliever.I've never witnessed a deliverance from demons, but I've seen people who were definitely infested with them, believe me, I've seen 'em. And I know that you've seen PLENTY and God is using you, girlfriend, taking you to places where angels fear to tread.

I guess it's all something I'm still trying to comprehend with my limited vista. I'm still doing battle with my own flesh and the world around me, and I'm sure there's a few demons hanging around, too. Mostly I'm just trying to move closer to God so I can hear Him better when He calls me to do something for Him. He's still helping me with my baby steps.

God bless you, Karen, I miss you!!! Haven't posted to you for a while now!!!!

[refugepsa91]

I also meant no offense...and I didn't mean to imply that you were word faith...not at all...we posted pretty much at the same time...you hit "add reply" faster than I did though

I have read your testimony and have no problem with what you do...I too have seen well maybe not seen but actually more like felt when someone is just plain possesed of something evil.

I am so sorry if I gave the wrong impression with my post....please accept my sincere apology if I hurt you in anyway.

God Bless you Karen C. in all you do!

[Karen C.]

Thanks Oneaccord~ I was just wondering where everyones faith has gone. We can't throw out the baby with the bath water. Like never before we need to seek the Lord and grow in Him. He will bring us to a right and balanced walk if we let Him... Love ya Sis!

The

[Karen C.]

Thanks Refuge and GM~ I just feel that too many times we have bounced from one extreme to the other. On one hand we have the "name it claim it" and find this is an excess of what "thus saith the Lord". Then we bounce to the other edge of not having enough faith to fight off the very things we have a right to stand up against. So you see satan has distorted and done a great deal of smear campaign on the truth...

That is where I stand. I also want to help those who have been hurt by the extreme to let them know there is a balance... God is faithful...

May you all be blessed in HIM, Karen

[The Journey]

If I break my arm I will go to the hospital for a cast. That is different from an affliction for disobedience or something the Lord is working out through me. I hope. lol. I am trying to make some sense of what I have come to believe and understand. I know we are in a fallen world, the same fallen world was in existence when God promised the Hebrews health for compliance to His commandments, why do we deserve less?

Karen,

Why? What is different about a broken arm? Does the cross not extend to a broken arm or a laceration? Why wouldn't God instantly heal your broken arm?

This is all dangerously close to the heresy of scientology which believes all illness to be an illusion.

Care to respond to Jesus statement on illness in John 9.

How about Romans 8:23. What is the redemption of our bodies?

What about death? Has God redeemed us from that curse? Why do we still die?

Is 1:5-6. Can healing in scripture be a spiritual healing?

Karen, I think you have a sweet spirit and truly desire to help people. But we should be dedicated to reality and good biblical exegesis. Remember, when they leave your healing services and go back home with their cancer...they then come to my office. I don't have the luxury of blaming their hidden sins, lack of faith, or that ole bad devil.

- Dr. Steve

[Karen C.]

:il: Steve~You have overlooked many things in my post. #1 the REASON for the curse on the Hebrews..ie sickness, was a problem in their obedience.

Nope, I don't have that kind of faith for a broken arm, I don't think. What is wrong with that?

I am talking about aflictions that stem from *SIN* and wrong choices and a luke warm walk. You want to make this a blanket affair. I don't agree with you.. Re read my post. I stand on whaT I have posed.

I don't callit scientolog... that is part of humanism, I call it a demonic affiction that can be overcome...

BTW~when have you ever seen anyone I have preached too???

Don't need a pill for that... or a DR...

Karen

[Ovedya]

NOt sure I follow you, Karen. Are you saying hat if I come down with the flu, or heaven forbid, I get something worse, like SARS or HIV that it is because I have been lukewarm or rebelious against God?

[angels4u]

I think that Karen means that some sicknesses can result from sin or being backslidden, it is the Lord who will use this sometimes to bring to our attention that He is still there waiting for us to follow Him.

But on the other hand God can use sicknesses also to show His power, sickness is not always caused by sin, but by just being human,sickness came after the fall and we still live with the result of it.

God can heal us if He wants too because He is God!!

[The Journey]

Karen and Angel,

Yes, sometimes sickness both mentally and physically comes from sin. Sometimes it comes from demons either possession or oppression. But, our bodies are all bound to this decaying world. We all run down and degenerate. Sickness is part of being a human. Its part of our flesh. This is not bad or evil. I pray that I never taste sickness or death. I pray the Lord Jesus returns before I face old age or my bad genetics. What we are commanded to do is to seek and walk with the Lord through every aspect of my life. If I get cancer I need to seek His face. If there is sin it must be confessed. But to subtley imply that all sick believers secretly harbor some sin is cruel. Again, our Lord taught the exact opposite to this destructive and backward line of thinking.

Karen, in reference to the nation of Israel this was part of the covenant with Moses. Yes, they were promised health and wealth if they kept the Law. As the body of Christ we are not promised a land flowing with milk and honey. We are not promised an earthly kingdom. Again, good biblical exegesis must be our goal. A common exegetical fallacy is to apply Mosaic covenant principles to the Church. It sounds great coming from Robert Tilton, Rod Parsely and his ilk (I sow my $1000 seed and God pays me back $100,000) unfortunately it is completely false.

- Dr. Steve

P.S. The possession cases I have been involved with were in the capacity of a physician with the gift of discernment. Sometimes it was demons. Sometimes it was brain disease. Humans are never simply and easy to figure out.