The Great Tribulation Will Be Upon The Antichrist And Wicked, The Sealed Church Is Protected, Dont Be Deceived

[truth7t7]

21 minutes ago, The Light said:

I addressed everyone of you points in my post. Here, I'll repost what I said.

As to your points:

1. Israel is on the earth in verse 1. The Church is already in heaven, which is why they are not mentioned again after chapter 5 (though they are part of the gathering from heaven and earth and are in the great multitude and of course we see them in Rev 19.

2.  Which means that Israel has to be there. When I say Israel, I'm talking about the 12 tribes across the earth, THE SEED OF THE WOMAN. The nation of Israel itself will go through the wrath of God. 

3. Yes, those of the 12 tribes are sealed which means they are believers, which means they are in the harvest in Rev 7.

4. Yes Israel rejected Christ. And yet they will be regrafted. When the fullness of the Gentiles comes in (before the seals are opened), God will turn His attention to His Chosen Bride. That's why there are 144,000 first fruits that are sealed. That's why they are in heaven in Rev 14. Like I said, the wrath of God is over in Rev 11 when the 7th angel sounds the trumpet. What you see with the two beasts in Rev 13, and 144,000 first fruits happens back in the seals.

5. Those in the nation of Israel that flee to a place of protection and go through the wrath of God. However, the seed of the woman, those in the twelve tribes across the earth are raptured at the 6th seal, just prior to the wrath of God.

Bottom line. The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. This has nothing to do with the Church. This has to do with working 7 more years for His chosen bride. The Church, His other bride, will escape ALL THESE THINGS that will come to pass during the 70th week of Daniel. Those that are ready, that is.

EXACTLY. The Church is raptured before the 70th week of Daniel. That's before the seals are opened. When the fullness of the comes in at the rapture, part of Israel has it's blindness removed. That part is the seed of the woman who the dragon goes after when he can't get to those of the nation of Israel.

Yep

Exactly. Both are grafted into the olive tree.

They are the kings and priests of Rev 5

What you see in Rev 7 is the great multitude that is gathered from HEAVEN and EARTH.

Mark 13

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The Church is already in heaven BEFORE the seals are opened. Then Jesus comes at the 6th seal. He brings the Church from heaven and then raptures the dead that were not raptured when the dead in Christ were raptured. He also raptures the alive from the 12 tribes across the earth that were not killed in the Great Tribulation. That's why all nations are there.

 

Those that keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ are the 12 tribes across the earth. The seed of woman, Israel, are Jews. They become Christians after the Church is raptured. God has turned His attention to the Jews after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

You are confusing the times of the Gentiles and the fullness of the Gentiles. They are not the same thing.

Rom 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Luke 21

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The events of Chapter 13 happen during the 6 seals. The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet. Then you get another view of the seals in Rev 13. Then you get another view of the coming of Jesus at the end of Rev 14. Then you get another view of the wrath of God in Rev 15 and 16.

There is one people of God, his Church

(Dual Covenant Theology) In Two Peoples Of God (Jew/Church) Is A Teaching In Error 

(There Is Neither Jew Nor Greek)

Galatians 3:26-29KJV

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Edited December 25, 2021 by truth7t7

[The Light]

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

There is one people of God, his Church

(Dual Covenant Theology) In Two Peoples Of God (Jew/Church) Is A Teaching In Error 

No body taught me anything. I just read the word. And it tells me that part of the Jews cannot see until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. It tells me that the fig tree has two harvests. It tells me that Jacob had two brides, Leah and he had to work 7 more years for his chosen bride, Rachel. It tells me there are two harvest feasts. It tells me that the GOODMAN will not know when He is coming and yet His coming before the Day of the Lord will not take His people by surprise. It tells me when He comes it will be like the days of Noah where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. Likewise also, His coming will be like the days of Lot, where the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. It tells me that the fathers of the Jews were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest, but they served other gods and the Gentiles would be the first harvest. It tells me that the Jews were cut off from the olive tree and that the Gentiles were grafted on. And it tells me that the Jews will see and believe and be regrafted onto the olive tree. It tells me that the Jews are the natural branches and the gentiles are the wild branches. 

So, I don't know whose teaching what, I just know what the word says. And it tells me after fullness of the Gentiles comes in, He will work 7 more years for His Chosen

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

(There Is Neither Jew Nor Greek)

Galatians 3:26-29KJV

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Right. There is neither Jew nor Greek. And there is neither male nor female. Have you seen Jews and Gentiles? Have you seen males and females? I think that means that we are all children of God when we believe in Jesus Christ. And we know that part of the Jews cannot see until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. When the Church is raptured, then and only then can God turn His attention to His Chosen. So whether you like it or not, God deals with His Church and then during the 70th week of Daniel, God deals with His Chosen.

[truth7t7]

3 hours ago, The Light said:

No body taught me anything. I just read the word. And it tells me that part of the Jews cannot see until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. It tells me that the fig tree has two harvests. It tells me that Jacob had two brides, Leah and he had to work 7 more years for his chosen bride, Rachel. It tells me there are two harvest feasts. It tells me that the GOODMAN will not know when He is coming and yet His coming before the Day of the Lord will not take His people by surprise. It tells me when He comes it will be like the days of Noah where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. Likewise also, His coming will be like the days of Lot, where the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. It tells me that the fathers of the Jews were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest, but they served other gods and the Gentiles would be the first harvest. It tells me that the Jews were cut off from the olive tree and that the Gentiles were grafted on. And it tells me that the Jews will see and believe and be regrafted onto the olive tree. It tells me that the Jews are the natural branches and the gentiles are the wild branches. 

So, I don't know whose teaching what, I just know what the word says. And it tells me after fullness of the Gentiles comes in, He will work 7 more years for His Chosen

Right. There is neither Jew nor Greek. And there is neither male nor female. Have you seen Jews and Gentiles? Have you seen males and females? I think that means that we are all children of God when we believe in Jesus Christ. And we know that part of the Jews cannot see until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. When the Church is raptured, then and only then can God turn His attention to His Chosen. So whether you like it or not, God deals with His Church and then during the 70th week of Daniel, God deals with His Chosen.

Thanks for the response and detailed description of your belief, we disagree

1.) No pre-trib rapture is seen in scripture, the accounts claimed in 1 Thessalonians 14:15-17 & 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 is nothing more than the second coming last day resurrection

2.) I fully agree the remnant elect Jew will be saved and added to the Church present on this earth

3.) Jesus Christ returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire, at this time the last day resurrection of "All" takes place John 6:39-40, John 5:28-29 (The End) as the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, are revealed for eternity Revelation 20:1-5

Jesus Is The Lord

As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Many disregard (Then Cometh The End) as they desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ, that will never take place

(Then Cometh The End) As (Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

Afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Edited December 25, 2021 by truth7t7

[R. Hartono]

@truth7t7

 

[AdHoc]

11 hours ago, The Light said:

I addressed everyone of you points in my post. Here, I'll repost what I said.

As to your points:

1. Israel is on the earth in verse 1. The Church is already in heaven, which is why they are not mentioned again after chapter 5 (though they are part of the gathering from heaven and earth and are in the great multitude and of course we see them in Rev 19.

2.  Which means that Israel has to be there. When I say Israel, I'm talking about the 12 tribes across the earth, THE SEED OF THE WOMAN. The nation of Israel itself will go through the wrath of God. 

3. Yes, those of the 12 tribes are sealed which means they are believers, which means they are in the harvest in Rev 7.

4. Yes Israel rejected Christ. And yet they will be regrafted. When the fullness of the Gentiles comes in (before the seals are opened), God will turn His attention to His Chosen Bride. That's why there are 144,000 first fruits that are sealed. That's why they are in heaven in Rev 14. Like I said, the wrath of God is over in Rev 11 when the 7th angel sounds the trumpet. What you see with the two beasts in Rev 13, and 144,000 first fruits happens back in the seals.

5. Those in the nation of Israel that flee to a place of protection and go through the wrath of God. However, the seed of the woman, those in the twelve tribes across the earth are raptured at the 6th seal, just prior to the wrath of God.

Bottom line. The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. This has nothing to do with the Church. This has to do with working 7 more years for His chosen bride. The Church, His other bride, will escape ALL THESE THINGS that will come to pass during the 70th week of Daniel. Those that are ready, that is.

EXACTLY. The Church is raptured before the 70th week of Daniel. That's before the seals are opened. When the fullness of the comes in at the rapture, part of Israel has it's blindness removed. That part is the seed of the woman who the dragon goes after when he can't get to those of the nation of Israel.

Yep

Exactly. Both are grafted into the olive tree.

They are the kings and priests of Rev 5

What you see in Rev 7 is the great multitude that is gathered from HEAVEN and EARTH.

Mark 13

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The Church is already in heaven BEFORE the seals are opened. Then Jesus comes at the 6th seal. He brings the Church from heaven and then raptures the dead that were not raptured when the dead in Christ were raptured. He also raptures the alive from the 12 tribes across the earth that were not killed in the Great Tribulation. That's why all nations are there.

 

Those that keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ are the 12 tribes across the earth. The seed of woman, Israel, are Jews. They become Christians after the Church is raptured. God has turned His attention to the Jews after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

You are confusing the times of the Gentiles and the fullness of the Gentiles. They are not the same thing.

Rom 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Luke 21

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The events of Chapter 13 happen during the 6 seals. The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet. Then you get another view of the seals in Rev 13. Then you get another view of the coming of Jesus at the end of Rev 14. Then you get another view of the wrath of God in Rev 15 and 16.

Thank you for taking the time to re-post. My posting originally answered your position that the 144,000 of Chapter 7 are the "great multitude" later in the Chapter (verses 9-17). I showed that that could not be because of the differences I listed. So either;

The differences do not exist

or ...

The differences do exist

To maintain your position you have to show why the differences do not actually exist.

[The Light]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Thank you for taking the time to re-post. My posting originally answered your position that the 144,000 of Chapter 7 are the "great multitude" later in the Chapter (verses 9-17). I showed that that could not be because of the differences I listed. So either;

The differences do not exist

or ...

The differences do exist

To maintain your position you have to show why the differences do not actually exist.

No. The 144,000 are not the great multitude. They are in the great multitude, meaning that they are part of the great multitude. The great multitude is a gathering from heaven and earth. The Lord has returned for the harvest. The Church is already in heaven and they come with the Lord as where the Lord is, we are also. The 144,000 are also in heaven. Here we see them before the throne.

Rev 14

14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

You think that those 144,000 are sealed to go through the wrath of God. They do not go through the wrath of God. As you posted yourself, when you are sealed, you are a believer that Jesus is the Lord. Let me tell you, again, and again and again. WHAT YOU SEE IN REVELATION 14 HAPPENS IN THE 6 SEALS OF REVELATION 6. The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet and you get another view of what happens in the seals in Rev 14..

 

Edited December 25, 2021 by The Light

[AdHoc]

3 hours ago, The Light said:

No. The 144,000 are not the great multitude. They are in the great multitude, meaning that they are part of the great multitude. The great multitude is a gathering from heaven and earth. The Lord has returned for the harvest. The Church is already in heaven and they come with the Lord as where the Lord is, we are also. The 144,000 are also in heaven. Here we see them before the throne.

Rev 14

14 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

You think that those 144,000 are sealed to go through the wrath of God. They do not go through the wrath of God. As you posted yourself, when you are sealed, you are a believer that Jesus is the Lord. Let me tell you, again, and again and again. WHAT YOU SEE IN REVELATION 14 HAPPENS IN THE 6 SEALS OF REVELATION 6. The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet and you get another view of what happens in the seals in Rev 14..

 

You still did not agree or disagree that there are differences. But we'll leave it, because now, if the 144,000 from the Tribes of Israel are part of the great multitude of the rest of Chapter 7, and they are the Church, as you say, then the Church goes through the Great Tribulation and suffers terribly, not from the Beast, but from what God does to the earth.

 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes

Here are the facts;

1. They go through the Great Tribulation (v.14)
2. They hungered, thirsted, the sun beat on them and they suffered heat - all due to the Seals.
3. They wept from suffering, for God must wipe their eyes
4. Their garments are dirty and need washing (unlike those of Revelation 19:7-8)
5. They will not rule with Christ, but serve in the Temple. They are priests but not kings

Where then, I ask, is the protection from the SEAL in verses 1-8? And did you not say that the Church is raptured before the Great Tribulation?

But all these questions go away if each company is a separate entity. Try this;

1. The 144,000 of Revelation 7 is the Jewish Remnant promised in Romans 9 and 11
2. The great multitude of Revelation 7 are Christians who were left behind as predicted in Matthew 24:32 onward. They are not called the Church because the House is "broken up". They were "left" because their garments were not fit for the Wedding Feast
3. The 144,000 of Revelation 14 are the Overcomers of the Churches

These three appear again together in Revelation 12.

1. The Man Child who will rule the Nations is the Overcomers (Rev.2:27)
2. Those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ but must pass through the 1260 days - those "left" on earth
3. Those who "keep the commandments of God" - the Jewish Remnant who fulfill Deuteronomy 30:1-5

What do you think brother?

Edited December 25, 2021 by AdHoc

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

You still did not agree or disagree that there are differences. But we'll leave it, because now, if the 144,000 from the Tribes of Israel are part of the great multitude of the rest of Chapter 7, and they are the Church, as you say, then the Church goes through the Great Tribulation and suffers terribly, not from the Beast, but from what God does to the earth.

 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes

Here are the facts;

1. They go through the Great Tribulation (v.14)
2. They hungered, thirsted, the sun beat on them and they suffered heat - all due to the Seals.
3. They wept from suffering, for God must wipe their eyes
4. Their garments are dirty and need washing (unlike those of Revelation 19:7-8)
5. They will not rule with Christ, but serve in the Temple. They are priests but not kings

Where then, I ask, is the protection from the SEAL in verses 1-8? And did you not say that the Church is raptured before the Great Tribulation?

But all these questions go away if each company is a separate entity. Try this;

1. The 144,000 of Revelation 7 is the Jewish Remnant promised in Romans 9 and 11
2. The great multitude of Revelation 7 are Christians who were left behind as predicted in Matthew 24:32 onward. They are not called the Church because the House is "broken up". They were "left" because their garments were not fit for the Wedding Feast
3. The 144,000 of Revelation 14 are the Overcomers of the Churches

These three appear again together in Revelation 12.

1. The Man Child who will rule the Nations is the Overcomers (Rev.2:27)
2. Those who have the testimony of Jesus Christ but must pass through the 1260 days - those "left" on earth
3. Those who "keep the commandments of God" - the Jewish Remnant who fulfill Deuteronomy 30:1-5

What do you think brother?

Scripture is very clear, the 144,000 are sealed and added to the church present on earth 

[truth7t7]

53 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

I agree with you on a nicely done presentation. What are your thoughts on the "five"months of torment on the unsaved being spiritual ,  as in Mt. 24, when " there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets", which I believe are the locusts which come out of the smoke of the pit. This is how God is going to judge the world in the days before the coming of the " Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven" ( Mt. 24: 30). 

The famine spoken of in Amos 8 is the starvation of the true gospel which has already begun. Who teaches the truth of God's mercy upon His elect? That the sacrifice of His dear Son was not in vain, as if someone can choose to have Christ's full payment for sin be effective in their life if only they decide .  He will soon be completing His plan of salvation for this world  which began before it was ever formed. And oh how His children should be rejoicing!

Thanks for the response Walter!

Do you believe the plagues in Egypt were spiritual also?

Did Moses/Aaron really stand before Pharaoh bringing literal plagues as seen in Exodus?

Will the Two Witnesses be literal prophets returned, bringing literal plagues as seen below?

Revelation 11:6KJV

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Edited December 25, 2021 by truth7t7

[AdHoc]

3 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

You stated:  "My conclusions are reached because I"

Now we have received , not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. " ( 1Cor. 2: 12). 

The Spirit of God guides His children in all understanding, literal, spiritual. 

I hear you brother. Too much "I". May the Lord have any glory from the truth received.