The Great Tribulation Will Be Upon The Antichrist And Wicked, The Sealed Church Is Protected, Dont Be Deceived

[truth7t7]

5 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

I believe Moses brought literal plagues, but for sure they have spiritual significance.  I never really looked into it. The two witnesses I believe represent the church age, " the days of their prophecy". The " three days and an half " would be the time of great tribulation when true believers are killed " spiritually ", as they are no longer effective in  bringing the true gospel, as the world is completely deceived with false gospels. 

The Two Witnesses Are Symbolic Of The Church Age ?

Revelation 11:3-15 clearly teaches they have bodies that will die, will lay in a physical street, and will be resurrected before a literal world watching?

Edited December 25, 2021 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

40 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Parabolic language, an earthly, literal story with a spiritual,  heavenly meaning. Isn't the whole Bible a spiritual book? 

Thanks for the response Walter, scripture clearly teaches the (Two Witnesses) are in a literal world having physical bodies that die, we disagree 

Jesus Is The Lord

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Well my friend you know how allegorical the book of Revelation can be. Take verse 5 of Rev. 11 for example. I realize that all things are possible with God, however, I am more comfortably inclined to believe that the fire proceeding out of the mouths of these two witnesses represents the  "judgment" ( as fire is symbolic for judgment) of God's word that they will be bringing during the church age.  Now if you want to take this as two people walking around burning people to a crisp as they spew fire from their mouths, have at it. 

I believe the fire coming from their mouth will be as their literal mouth calling fire down from heaven as Elijah did below

Do you believe that the events surrounding Elijah below were symbolic or literally happened?

1 Kings 18:36-38KJV

36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word. 37 Hear me, O Lord, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the Lord God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again. 38 Then the fire of the Lord fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.

Edited December 26, 2021 by truth7t7

[Diaste]

On 12/24/2021 at 8:17 AM, The Light said:

Good point. But those twelve tribes are not going through the wrath of God. They are in the Great Multitude in Rev 7

 

On 12/24/2021 at 10:41 AM, The Light said:

What you don't understand brother is that the Wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet.

Rev 10

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev 11

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

For the entire thought....

 

And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17saying:

“We give thanks to You, O Lord God Almighty,

the One who is and who was,b

because You have taken Your great power

and have begun to reign.

18The nations were enraged,c

and Your wrath has come.

"

Wrath begins here. Imminent at the 6th seal, begins at the 7th trump. The 7th trump which is the last trump, when the one and only gathering happens.

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

Rev. 10:7: seventh angel, mystery of God finished ( end of the world, Christ comes with "fiery indignation "( Heb. 10:27) or wrath ).

Rev. 11: 15 : seventh angel,  "kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our LORD" ( end of the world), which is the time that God's " wrath is come " in v.18.

Rev. 6:12: sixth seal, sun black, moon dark, stars fall  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days " ( Mt. 24:29) ( end of the world), which is the " great day of His wrath "( Rev.6:17). 

You may also reference Joel 3:14-17: " multitudes in the valley of decision " ( tribulation period), sun, moon and stars (v.15), then the LORD will " roar out of Zion", " and the heavens and the earth shall shake" ( v. 16)... ( the end of the world, most definitely a time of wrath ). 

" Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of His fierce anger" ( Is. 13:13). 

This world will not see God's wrath until the last day when Jesus comes. 

I believe you expect to see the book of Revelation roll along in chronological order,  which it does not. And certainly the timing or events of seals and angels do not harmonize with their respective numbers. In other words the time of the sixth seal ( Rev. 6:12) is the same time as the voice of the  seventh angel  (Rev. 10:7 and 11:15). 

 

Yeah. And what is that last day? But that's a discussion all of it's own.

I don't see Revelation as chronological. It can't be. There are chronological elements but also a lot of overlap. Something I have argued for in this forum many times over a few years.

[The Light]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

 

For the entire thought....

 

And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17saying:

“We give thanks to You, O Lord God Almighty,

the One who is and who was,b

because You have taken Your great power

and have begun to reign.

18The nations were enraged,c

and Your wrath has come.

"

Wrath begins here. Imminent at the 6th seal, begins at the 7th trump. The 7th trump which is the last trump, when the one and only gathering happens.

Pretty weak. Completely dismissing those trumpets as nothing. And we see that wrath IS come at the 6th seal.

Rev 6

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Let's get a little dose of the trumpets that you want to dismiss as nothing.

Rev 8

7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

Now you get the three woes. And you think that's not wrath?

At the 5th seal, and men being tortured for 5 months. Then you got a third part of mankind killed at the 7th trumpet, but that's NOT THE WRATH OF GOD?

And let's not forget about the 7 thunders. We don't even know what happens then.

Rev 10

4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

Also, we see that the kingdoms of this world ARE become the kingdoms of our Lord. And you think that wrath has not begun?

Rev 11

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The only way that the kingdoms of this word are become the kingdoms of our Lord is if Jesus has returned and set His kingdom up on earth. 

Rev 10

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The mystery of God is finished when the 7th trumpet BEGINS to sound.

[Selah7]

Greetings . . .

It's critical that we understand there are two tribulations, not just one as is frequently taught.

The first tribulation is the false messiah appearing on the earth to deceive all those that will be deceived.
 
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.   - Revelation 12:7-9 (NKJV)

Satan deceives the entire world, but not God's Elect.
 

Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. "Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time."

- Revelation 12:10-12 (NKJV)

This is when Satan is physically driven out and manifests as the Antichrist, the false messiah. He realizes he only has a short time, which God has reduced to 5 months - Revelation 9.

Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

- Revelation 12:13-17 (NKJV)

I’d say the flood is a flood of lies meant to deceive people.  
 

Let’s read Mark 13 to find the two tribulations:

Here is the first tribulation:

"But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. "Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. "And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. "So when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not" (let the reader understand), "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. "Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. "And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! "And pray that your flight may not be in winter. "For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. "And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days. "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'Look, He is there!' do not believe it. "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. "But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.

- Mark 13:11-23 (NKJV)

Now below is the second tribulation (God’s Wrath!) at the 7th trump at the true Christ`s return.  This is God's tribulation:
 

"But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; "the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. "Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. "And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

- Mark 13:24-27,30 (NKJV)

So there you have the two tribulations.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Selah7

[truth7t7]

16 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

( Isaiah 13:8): " Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger,  to lay the land desolate; and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it."

Man, the book of Isaiah gets right to the point. 

Yep right to the point, the Lord's fire that will destroy "All" the wicked at his second coming

Luke 17:29-30KJV

 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Edited December 26, 2021 by truth7t7

[Bawb]

On 12/23/2021 at 5:43 PM, AdHoc said:

There is not a single verse where the Church is sealed to avoid the Great Tribulation. Those in Ephesians 1.13 and 4:30 received the Holy Spirit Who, besides effecting the new birth and giving eternal life, IS the Seal for resurrection. Note that the "redemption" is future in both cases - the redemption of the body.

Those who were sealed in Chapter 7 and protected in Chapter 9 of Revelation are plainly said to be of Tribes of Israel.

 

If you truly want to be accurate, there is no mention of "the church" in the Bible as per its original text. There were no such thing as "churches" when Yochanan copied Yeshua's Words of the Revelation.

[truth7t7]

2 minutes ago, Bawb said:

If you truly want to be accurate, there is no mention of "the church" in the Bible as per its original text. There were no such thing as "churches" when Yochanan copied Yeshua's Words of the Revelation.

Symantics, Sounds like a congregationalist speaking?

Edited December 26, 2021 by truth7t7