appy Posted January 12, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2022 Someone recently said something along this line.... but we can't judge, because they may be new Christians... that is true. However, it is easier to help a new Christian see error, than someone who sees themselves as having a special inside track with God that they think no one else has or that they are more holy than others, and everyone else should listen to that person only. True that we can't judge the heart, but we most certainly judge every thing we hear, read and see against the word of God to see if what is being said lines up with the bible and lines up with the gospel message. We are to do this, no matter who is speaking. Paul commended the Bereans, not because they were mature believers, but because they didn't just take his word without question, concerning what they were hearing him say. They compared what Paul said to what scripture said as a whole. God gave us three things, the Holy Spirit to guide us into the direction of all truth, his written word (bible) and common sense. Satan quoted scripture to Jesus perfectly when it suited his evil purposes. In Matthew 4, Satan after taking Jesus up to the highest point of the temple, said to Jesus. Matthew 4:6 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “‘He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’ Satan was quoting from Psalm 91 Psalm 91:11, 12 For He will command His angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways. 12 They will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone. Jesus didn't say... oh yeah, your right scripture does say that so it must be ok. Jesus' reply to that was, Matthew 4:7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test'. Deuteronomy 6 : 16 Do not put the Lord your God to the test as you did at Massah Jesus did not need to do it to prove who he was, or that the father was with him in this way. But if he had, it would have been a glaring act of unbelief instead. Common sense tells us that if you jump from a high place, your gonna die from the sudden and painful stop at the bottom. Deliberately putting yourself in such a position of harm is an evil test of getting God to move on your behalf, in others words your manipulating the situation. And it is an unacceptable way of testing God. We can see from the conversation in Matthew 4, that Satan spoke truth. There was just enough truth mixed in with the lie, to hide the fact that Satan was being deceptive the whole time. False teachings are NOT born because the speaker is a new Christian or because they misunderstand scripture, but because they believe lies from demons. Satan and his demon's are not interested in man being redeemed, and they certainly will not lead people to Jesus, or lead people to worship Jesus, but away from him. All false teachings lead us away from Jesus and the gospel message and point our focus elsewhere. In summary, we most certainly should judge and point out false teaching and heresy. The bible teaches us to not only avoid them, but to also expose them. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 18, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 909 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,656 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,838 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 18, 2022 On 1/10/2022 at 12:17 PM, Starise said: I believe different people study and learn in different ways all led by the Holy Spirit if we are believers. One good point recently made about the bible pointed out that there is no ideal translation form the ancient languages to English. For this reason we need comparison study tools to get the correct grasp. Most of the time the translations we have are good enough to get the meanings, but sometimes they are not. It's all about context isn't it? I wasn't sure which application you were using for the word prophecy since the word does have at least two meanings. In some translations the word closely means to preach which has nothing to do with a prediction. I like this translation- Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. The true 'prophets' often spoke of future events, often relaying bad messages to the children of Israel that were from the Lord about their future due to their behavior. On one hand we have a book with words in it called the bible, yet in order to be understood God either needs to reveal it to men directly or call men to preach ( prophesy) it to others. -Tim There are various degrees of false teaching (some obvious, others far more deceptive). I keep going back to the Lord Jesus praying for the Church to be one as the Father and He are one (John 17)... and I see only division. All are under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 18, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 909 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,656 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,838 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 18, 2022 On 1/10/2022 at 12:45 PM, Starise said: Thanks for posting these references. So clearly these doctrines were not of the Holy Spirit's leading. One key element here for me is these people who do these things don't try to interpret what is already in front of us. No. They would rather add something to it they themselves made up. Who would believe men just "made things up" as they see fit when it comes to the word of God? It happens a lot. -Tim 3 times in John 17 not 33 times (I have a hair trigger keyboard) LOL How about the way they make things up to explain the Trinity (which is clearly taught in the Bible)? There is one God there are three individuals who are the one God. Examples man makes up get pretty wild sometimes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted January 18, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,125 Content Per Day: 9.67 Reputation: 13,656 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 hour ago, JohnD said: 3 times in John 17 not 33 times (I have a hair trigger keyboard) LOL How about the way they make things up to explain the Trinity (which is clearly taught in the Bible)? There is one God there are three individuals who are the one God. Examples man makes up get pretty wild sometimes. Often I believe we tend to see the false teachers and false teachings as something detached. Something that's out there somewhere other than where we are. Surely it couldn't be in our own congregations or churches. It could be sitting right next to you in a Sunday school class or coming across a pulpit in your own church. One man leads and most everyone else follows, but what do they follow and why? There are weeds even in the nicest of flower pots. -Tim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appy Posted January 19, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 23 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,864 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 2,596 Days Won: 2 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 19, 2022 It is important to point out the difference between false doctrine and denominational disagreements. Different congregational groups see secondary issues in Scripture differently. These differences are not always due to false doctrine on anyone’s part. Church policies, governmental decisions, style of worship, etc., are all open for discussion, since they are not directly addressed in Scripture. Even those issues that are addressed in Scripture are often debated by equally sincere disciples of Christ. Differences in interpretation or practice do not necessarily qualify as false doctrine, nor should they divide the Body of Christ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted January 20, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,125 Content Per Day: 9.67 Reputation: 13,656 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted January 20, 2022 Do you believe there are denominations that teach false doctrine? I'm not attempting to put you on the spot, but I think it's important to differentiate denominations that indeed do teach false doctrines and those who don't. A denominational disagreement could be a doctrinal error. Some of this depends on how big a tent one considers a denomination to be. Martin Luther felt he had good reason to leave the RCC. Good scriptural biblical reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted January 20, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,125 Content Per Day: 9.67 Reputation: 13,656 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted January 20, 2022 Denominations differences are most commonly doctrinal differences. Is doctrine important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted January 20, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,125 Content Per Day: 9.67 Reputation: 13,656 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted January 20, 2022 I appreciate your summation of what we agree on as Christians as opposed to what we don't agree on. I think that's probably the best way to start off any discussion on denominations. While I've never sat down and put together a list of those seemingly trivial differences that aren't supposed to count as anything major among Christians, at certain times in history and even now, they were BIG things to many people and they still are big things to many, the reason we have different groups. In any such discussion there would likely be sides taken as to what is considered important and what beliefs are considered to be 'trivial'. The place to start would be to maybe look at any denomination and see what differentiates them from all the others. What is it they do or don't do that A. Caused them to move away from another group? and B. Why was it important for them to do so? First we need to see the core which you have presented. That core of beliefs that unifies us all and go from there. Without a doubt, many would insist it was God who led them away and this more than insinuates the other group somehow had it all wrong. I don't believe God was behind all denominations. If God wasn't behind them all, then they can't all be true. I am reiterating what you said in some ways, or rather quoted in scripture. The passages you quoted refer to those who are willingly ignorant of the truth. I would also submit there are those who are the "misguided righteous". They really think they are going the right way when they are really following a bad set of maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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