Reasoning Together

[WordSword]

What sense and worth could there be if one truly received salvation and then truly lost it? Can it be rightly said that God can give “eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him” (Heb 5:9), while knowing they will eventually lose it? Such a situation would have no value at any time, but only confirms a misunderstanding of God’s omniscience. After rebirth, one will never conceive the desire against what He “works” within (Phl 2:13), which is “to desire and to perform of His good pleasure.” If those who profess faith in Christ cease to outwardly manifest the Christian walk, it confirms they have yet to be reborn.

It is this very “work” that keeps one from ever desiring to return to the former state of an unregenerate—which is “irrevocable” (Rom 11:29 - NKJV). If you’re reborn God will “keep you from evil” and “keep you from falling” (2Th 3:3; Jude 1:24), otherwise none could possibly remain in the faith; which answers to why salvation is permanent, and apostates (hypocrites) eventually manifest the absence of rebirth.

No matter who you are, there will always be a certain degree of misinterpretation of Scripture (concerning spiritual growth but not how to receive salvation), as it often presents statements that require researching beyond how a passage is given. This difficulty exists to confound the hypocrite (believers never cease from seeking truth), and admonish the saved to study; and without the use of at least one acceptable Bible commentator of your choice, there will always be a weighty time-lag in your learning progress.

[QuantumGod]

Doesn't the book of 1st John say that if we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves? Isn't John speaking there to those with saving faith? Even the Apostle Paul said he did things he would not, and did not do things he would, meaning sin. How does that fit in with your post? 

[missmuffet]

On 1/7/2022 at 7:01 AM, WordSword said:

What sense and worth could there be if one truly received salvation and then truly lost it? Can it be rightly said that God can give “eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him” (Heb 5:9), while knowing they will eventually lose it? Such a situation would have no value at any time, but only confirms a misunderstanding of God’s omniscience. After rebirth, one will never conceive the desire against what He “works” within (Phl 2:13), which is “to desire and to perform of His good pleasure.” If those who profess faith in Christ cease to outwardly manifest the Christian walk, it confirms they have yet to be reborn.

It is this very “work” that keeps one from ever desiring to return to the former state of an unregenerate—which is “irrevocable” (Rom 11:29 - NKJV). If you’re reborn God will “keep you from evil” and “keep you from falling” (2Th 3:3; Jude 1:24), otherwise none could possibly remain in the faith; which answers to why salvation is permanent, and apostates (hypocrites) eventually manifest the absence of rebirth.

No matter who you are, there will always be a certain degree of misinterpretation of Scripture (concerning spiritual growth but not how to receive salvation), as it often presents statements that require researching beyond how a passage is given. This difficulty exists to confound the hypocrite (believers never cease from seeking truth), and admonish the saved to study; and without the use of at least one acceptable Bible commentator of your choice, there will always be a weighty time-lag in your learning progress.

If a person lost their salvation they were not genuinely saved to begin with. They did not have the Holy Spirit. 

[Riverwalker]

We still have to deal with that little thing the bible calls the "Flesh"

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

When we are saved our spirit is regenerated, made new....born again

But our flesh remain corrupt, and we must sacrifice it....daily

and our soul (mind will and emotions) needs to be retrained

Which is why Paul Tells us

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

and

Romans 12:1  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

So while we are saved at once.....there is still a lot of work to do

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, QuantumGod said:

Doesn't the book of 1st John say that if we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves? Isn't John speaking there to those with saving faith? Even the Apostle Paul said he did things he would not, and did not do things he would, meaning sin. How does that fit in with your post? 

Thanks for the reply, but I'm not sure of what you are trying to mean. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, missmuffet said:

If a person lost their salvation they were not genuinely saved to begin with. They did not have the Holy Spirit. 

Hi! Do you mean if a person claims to be saved and does not continue as such, it shows they weren't saved?

[missmuffet]

Just now, WordSword said:

Hi! Do you mean if a person claims to be saved and does not continue as such, it shows they weren't saved?

If a person genuinely did not ask God into their life and continued to live a sinful life.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

You can’t lose salvation if God regenerated you, a child of God can never lose their salvation.that is my belief,🙏

God testified to my spirit that I’m his child ,when he was indwelling me, that was 30 yrs ago...His Holy Spirit indwells His Children,he takes up residence in our spirit, never ever to leave,🙏

Hi and appreciate and agree with your comments; and God continues to testify to us that we are His (Rom 8:16).

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, missmuffet said:

If a person genuinely did not ask God into their life and continued to live a sinful life.

I thought that's what you meant. Thanks!

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

We still have to deal with that little thing the bible calls the "Flesh"

So while we are saved at once.....there is still a lot of work to do

Amen to that, it's the sin nature that the Spirit opposes in us (Gal 5:17), and "it is not subject to God's law, not can it ever be" (Rom 8:7).