A Parable: Goldilocks and the three modes of Baptism.

[Dead Orthodoxy]

The Papa Bear of Immersion: The Papa bear will state that immersion baptism only specifically symbolizes Christ’s death and resurrection (Ro 6 and Col 2). The Papa bear states sprinkling and pouring doesn’t depict this symbolism. Therefore, only immersion is a valid mode of Baptism.

The Mama Bear of Pouring: The Mama bear doesn’t believe immersion specifically symbolizes Christ’s death and resurrection. The Mama bear believes pouring symbolizes the Holy Spirit being "poured out" to the Gentile world (Acts 2) plus Christ’s blood "poured out" for many (Mt 26) through His death on the cross. The Mama Bear states immersion and sprinkling doesn’t depict this symbolism of the Holy Sprit and Christ’s blood. Therefore, only pouring is a valid mode of baptism.

The Baby Bear of Sprinkling: The Baby bear doesn’t believe baptism is symbolic of Christ’s death or resurrection nor the giving of the Holy Spirit. The Baby bear believes sprinkling symbolizes Jesus of the New Coventant “sprinkled in his blood” (Heb 12); it symbolizes without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins (Heb. 9); it symbolizes Jesus being whipped with those droplets of blood signifying “by his wounds we are healed” (I Peter 2). The Baby bear states immersion and pouring doesn’t depict this symbolism. Therefore, only sprinkling is the only valid mode of baptism.

[missmuffet]

Baptism is not a salvation issue. It is nice if a person can be baptized but it does not mean they are not saved if they can not be baptized. 

[Starise]

The best way to understand something is to go back to the source and the motive. Not the source of your denomination. The source of baptism in the scriptures.

Baptism could be seen as a carry over from Judaism since it was used as a spiritual cleansing rite before Jews went into the temple.

John was full of the Spirit from birth and so far as I know, he was the first to do it in Christianity. In Judaism baptism was something you did BEFORE going into the temple. When John baptized, it was symbolic of a new life, a conversion through Christ.

John baptized Jesus who knew no sin and I find this curious because if baptism symbolized new life for the new Christian, why did Jesus see the need to do it? For Him the symbolism was different. He would be dead, buried and resurrected. I believe His baptism showed this symbolism. For the new Christian it means they will be dead to the old life and raised to the new life in Christ.

This might be justification for baptizing those too young to act on their own. In my denomination they call these baptisms in public but more accurately call them infant dedications at other times. In the true sense of what is happening it is simply the church and the family of the child agreeing to support one another in raising the child in the Lord. In strict terms it is a dedication and not a baptism as I see it. I have never seen a person come forward and say they were saved and want to be baptized in this church. It seems to have been adopted for only the young and I think this is sad.

In some churches every attendee is viewed as a potential salvation candidate and sermons are preached accordingly. In other churches it seems to be assumed everyone there is already a believer and I think this determines different approaches.

Also, if a person was 'dedicated' as an infant and understood it to be a baptism, I often wonder if this takes them away from a true baptism later on?

Edited January 22, 2022 by Starise

[appy]

The meaning and purpose of being water baptized is more important than the method. If we say that baptism is required to receive salvation; it then makes it “saved by works” instead of the work of God's grace. It is an outward demonstration of the inward reality that God has already caused you to be born from above. It symbolizes and demonstrates that we are following Jesus in being baptized as He was baptized.

Baptism is a symbol of being a follower of Jesus and is a public confession and testimony that a person is making a commitment to put to death the sinful nature that is within them and is committed to following Christ. That the person is indeed repenting of their sins, confessing faith in front of witnesses. Water baptism symbolizes the death and burial of the old carnal self and its sinful nature.

Romans 6 : 2 - 11
By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?  Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?  We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.  For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.  

For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin--  because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.  Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.  For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him

The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.  In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus

 

[Michael37]

5 hours ago, Dead Orthodoxy said:

The Papa Bear of Immersion: The Papa bear will state that immersion baptism only specifically symbolizes Christ’s death and resurrection (Ro 6 and Col 2). The Papa bear states sprinkling and pouring doesn’t depict this symbolism. Therefore, only immersion is a valid mode of Baptism.

The Mama Bear of Pouring: The Mama bear doesn’t believe immersion specifically symbolizes Christ’s death and resurrection. The Mama bear believes pouring symbolizes the Holy Spirit being "poured out" to the Gentile world (Acts 2) plus Christ’s blood "poured out" for many (Mt 26) through His death on the cross. The Mama Bear states immersion and sprinkling doesn’t depict this symbolism of the Holy Sprit and Christ’s blood. Therefore, only pouring is a valid mode of baptism.

The Baby Bear of Sprinkling: The Baby bear doesn’t believe baptism is symbolic of Christ’s death or resurrection nor the giving of the Holy Spirit. The Baby bear believes sprinkling symbolizes Jesus of the New Coventant “sprinkled in his blood” (Heb 12); it symbolizes without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins (Heb. 9); it symbolizes Jesus being whipped with those droplets of blood signifying “by his wounds we are healed” (I Peter 2). The Baby bear states immersion and pouring doesn’t depict this symbolism. Therefore, only sprinkling is the only valid mode of baptism.

Which one does Goldilocks settle for?

[Starise]

9 hours ago, appy said:

The meaning and purpose of being water baptized is more important than the method. If we say that baptism is required to receive salvation; it then makes it “saved by works” instead of the work of God's grace. It is an outward demonstration of the inward reality that God has already caused you to be born from above. It symbolizes and demonstrates that we are following Jesus in being baptized as He was baptized.

Baptism is a symbol of being a follower of Jesus and is a public confession and testimony that a person is making a commitment to put to death the sinful nature that is within them and is committed to following Christ. That the person is indeed repenting of their sins, confessing faith in front of witnesses. Water baptism symbolizes the death and burial of the old carnal self and its sinful nature.

Romans 6 : 2 - 11
By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?  Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?  We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.  For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.  

For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin--  because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.  Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.  For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him

The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.  In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus

 

I agree with everything you've said. Not that my agreement makes or breaks anything.

If we agree that baptism is necessary to show obedience we then need to evaluate why we are getting baptized and make sure we are doing it in the way the Lord would want us to do it. Which way would the Lord Himself condone or say was the closest to the way it's always been done? Would we be happy doing it an alternate way? Why? Does the answer have full biblical support?

I compare the alternatives to an OT Jew who decides to customize their sacrifice in the temple. They want three pigeons? I found some really nice blackbirds we can use. Why pigeons? PFFFFFFFt. I see it as a form of disobedience if the Lord was clear in what He wanted. Anyone who reads and studies the word knows the answer to how it was done. A person can have as many letters behind their name as possible in their denomination and it doesn't change a thing. Nothing supersedes the word. Nothing. The Bible is our sole source. Does God make exceptions? He does whatever He pleases, but it is HE who does it. Not us.

[Dead Orthodoxy]

10 hours ago, Starise said:

When John baptized, it was symbolic of a new life, a conversion through Christ.

Is "symbolic of a new life" immersion, pouring or sprinkling?

[Dead Orthodoxy]

10 hours ago, appy said:

Baptism is a symbol of being a follower of Jesus

Which mode is "being a follower of Jesus?"

[The_Patriot21]

There is only ome biblical way to be baptized-and that is by immersion. Period.

And no, it does not save you but i will question ones salvation if someone refuses to be baptized. 

Why? Because yes were saved by faith. If we put our faith in Jesus then we will want to obey Him.

Baptism is not only an act of faith, its also an act of obedience. Its the first thing Jesus commands us to do upon conversion.

If we dont have enough faith to obey Christs command to be baptized, then did we really put our faith in Jesus? If you cant follow the most basic of commands, will you follow Him when He asks something harder?

[AdHoc]

Baptism is an emphatic command. The word "Baptizo" means "to immerse as in dyeing a garment". There are at least five reasons to be immersed. Here are my seven.

1. It is a command. That is, God expects it of you whether you've understood it or not
2. All the people that God chose passed through water (Josh.24:2, 14, 1st Cor.11:1-10)
3. It is the circumcision made without hands (Col.2:9-12). All seed of Abraham need it to be part of the Covenant of Promise by circumcision (Gen.15). Galatians 3:29 affirms that we are seed of Abraham
4. God gives His Spirit for two purposes - eternal life INWARDLY (John's gospel) and POWER for ministry OUTWARDLY (Lk.24:49, Act.1:8). Without Baptism you cannot receive the Holy Spirit for POWER (Act.2:38 is emphatic)
5. It authorizes you to be risen LIKE Christ in resurrection (Rom.6:4)
6. It clears our conscience (1st Pet.3:21). Without a clear conscience we cannot serve God properly. We are continually burdened by our sins
7. It allows us to "ENTER" the Kingdom of God (Jn.3:5).

A man or woman is saved by faith. But he/she is saved FOR a purpose to serve, display and inherit with Christ. AS you can see, the service is dependent on Baptism. Baptism is a "sign". It has value only as this, but what a value. In every case the order is as Acts 2:38;

1. Believe in and confess Jesus (and receive salvation and receive the Holy Spirit for eternal life)
2. Be immersed (for the points above)
3. Receive the Holy Spirit for service

There is a natural resistance to Baptism. Where does it come from? Satan cannot stop you being saved and born again. He can deceive you that Baptism isn't all those things above.