The Lord’s Prayer Misunderstood - Do you need a miracle?

[Christian Believer]

17 hours ago, Willa said:

Joh 6:63  It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

The words of the New Testament are used by the Holy Spirit to feed us and create life in people.  It is through the words that we are born again. Through them we are granted faith.  

 2Ti 3:15  and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

 

Hello again Willa,

And just to be clear on things, here's a summary of how we stand:

Declaring belief in Jesus is the beginning of a journey of getting to know Him. It goes in this order:
  1. Birth of the flesh, physical birth.
  2. Spiritual birth (born again)
  3. Spiritual maturity.

It is the 3rd item that most churches and people ignore. And it is the 3rd item I'm pointing to. The Lord's Prayer is only one of the things we can do to fulfil the 3rd item.

Why is it that telling someone to say the Lord's Prayer daily as Jesus instructed, is so offending? It is not "works". It is obedience. And it contributes to #3.

The other contributing action to #3 is seeking God, through reading the scriptures, as Jesus instructed in the Sermon on the Mount. Again here Jesus said it. But if I task someone to do it, they're angry at me. "What do you mean? I'm "born again" I don't need to do anything..." Well Jesus had something to say to those with that attitude. Matthew 3:9: Jesus said: "And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham."

[Willa]

I probably need to listen to your admonition, but I have always resisted "Saying" any prayer.  Repeating prayers has never been beneficial in my own life.  Instead praying in the Spirit has been a blessing to me.  So while I admire your discipline it has just never helped me to repeat any prayer.  Just talking to God and praying with the help of the Holy Spirit has been the biggest blessing to me.  

My Catholic cousin has written me several times with a prayer she found for some purpose, as if it is some magic formula that "works".  No, it is God Who answers our prayers.  There is no magic formula and we can't put Him in a box.  We simply pour out our hearts to Him and sit at His feet.  So if you want to repeat prayers and that blesses you, great.  Just don't think that what works for you is a magic formula that will work for everyone.  Each person is unique and God works with each person in a unique way, tailored to each one.  

Rom 8:26  Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Jud 1:20  But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, Jud 1:21  keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Eph 6:18  praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—

 

[Michael37]

7 minutes ago, Willa said:

I probably need to listen to your admonition, but I have always resisted "Saying" any prayer.  Repeating prayers has never been beneficial in my own life.

Yes, I had my fill of set prayers growing up and experienced the dissonance of worsening circumstance rather than the Divine Providence sought.

The culture of performance persists whereby the extemporaneous praying of Pentecostals is loathed in favour of the polished prayers and formal incantations that my dear late mother so loved.

[appy]

10 hours ago, Christian Believer said:

Ok your turn. Who is Jesus to you?

Who is Jesus to me?

My redeemer. He is God in the flesh, fully God and fully man at the same time. Born of a woman, born as a Jew, died on the cross and rose to life again. Jesus is the exact representation of God's glory. Salvation can be found in no one else.

[R. Hartono]

On 1/28/2022 at 10:50 AM, Christian Believer said:

Matthew 6:9-13 and Luke11:2-4

Our Father who are in heaven, hallowed be your name, [10]your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. [11]Give us this day our daily bread [12]and forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who trespass against us. [13]Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.

Two main problems with Christians and churches today:

1.   The "daily bread" is not our earthly needs. It's the body of Jesus.
2.   People are not praying this prayer "daily" as Jesus instructed.

The “daily bread” is not our earthly necessities. The “Daily Bread” is the Body of Jesus. The forgiveness of sins is the result of receiving the daily Bread, which is the Bread of life that God gives (John 6:32-33). 

Jesus would never instruct us to pray for earthy necessities, as clear from His teachings throughout the bible. Example, sermon on the mount: “don’t worry about earthly needs, but seek God first…” (Matthew 6:31-33)

It is obviously implied to say the Lord’s Prayer “daily”. It would be disrespectful of us not to say it daily. Do you truly believe in Him when you’re not saying this prayer daily as He instructed?

You don’t have to chew on actual bread like some churches advise. You can receive God’s bread of life spiritually, by genuinely saying the Lord’s Prayer acknowledging the meaning of every word in it. 

You might say, "what's the difference? as long as we pray the prayer." Oh there is a huge difference. Our spiritual communication with God is about what we mean. The words are meaningless unless we mean what they are in our hearts.

If you examine the original Aramaic version of this prayer, you’ll find two important facts:

1. No punctuation. Punctuation was added later in the translation. And in the case of this prayer, the translators made an error by adding a period between “…daily Bread” and “and forgive us…” There should be no punctuation there. Not because I said so, but because of all the Bible references (provided here below) that are consistent with that.

2. There were two words: “sins” and “trespasses”. “Sins” was used in reference to God. We trespass against humans, but we “sin” against God! Trespass is a soft word that lessens the significance of the offense, but when it comes to God, it is a deadly offense; proper word for it is “sins”. Jesus used the word “sins” throughout the scripture, not “trespasses”(example in John 9:41). So it’s not “… forgive us our trespasses…” It is “… forgive us our sins…”

Bible references supporting this:

“daily Bread” = Body of Jesus, not earthly necessities

1 Corinthians‬ ‭10:16-17
Paul said: …there is one loaf… we all share the one loaf.

2 Corinthians 4:16:
Paul said: …Even though our outer person is being destroyed, our inner person is being renewed day by day.

John 6:32-33 and 6:51
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you Moses didn’t give you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.” “For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
“I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever. The bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

John 6:57
…the one who “feeds” on me… Using the term “feeds” implying continual. [… give us this day our daily Bread…]

John 6:58
Contains a very clear explanation showing a parallel between the Bread (His body) and the manna in the desert, which couldn’t be hoarded more than one day (Exodus 16:4). Thus, God’s desire for our daily dependence on Him. 

John 15:5 
The branch is continually nourished by the Vine. Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches. Without the Lord’s Prayer daily, a branch will wither and die. 

Luke 11:13
Jesus said this right after he taught them His prayer. God is giving the Holy Spirit, “to those who ask Him”. It doesn’t get much clearer than this. Obviously, God will not give you the Holy Spirit unless you ask. But Jesus is clarifying here that by renewing yourself (daily through His prayer), you’ll cleansed and make-way to receive the Holy Spirit.

John 6:26-27

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

Jesus said this after they had been looking for Him all day, then found Him. Another big evidence that the "earthly bread", is not it in the Lord's prayer.

John 6

The entire Chapter 6 from John is all about this. The Pharisees did not get it then; Jesus knowing they did not get it, kept drilling it in with more of actual eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood throughout the chapter. And today you'd think we got it! But most churches and people still don't understand it. At best churches just call it: "basically He died for our sins..." or some other blanket statement like that. But no one knew to link it to the "daily Bread" in the Lord's prayer! Which provides our continuous feeding on Him. And keeping Him in us, and us in Him (John 15:4). This is so big, not to be taken lightly.

Wording crafted by God Himself

Many Christians think, “surely Jesus gave us this prayer as an example. That He didn’t mean for us to repeat it daily!” 

He did!!; He [God] Personally word-smithed the words perfectly. Exactly as He did throughout history. After the fall He taught Adam and Eve how to present a sacrifice fitting to Him, He crafted the Leviticus law to Moses that had to be followed precisely, and finally the Lord’s Prayer, which is the optimum method compared to previous covenants. It's a prayer that we say in our hearts once a day. It keeps us close to God, and fulfills John 5:24: "Truly I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not come under judgment but has passed from death to life." 

After saying the Lord’s Prayer, the communication channels with God become wide open (through the Holy Spirit within us of course). Afterwards we can say our own prayers using our words, making our request known to God… And He will answer. 

I can guess why this prayer is no longer recited daily (except occasionally at some sports games, as a tradition). It is because people are well provided for these days. And therefore, feel they don’t need to bother God by asking for the daily bread anymore (implying earthly necessities), as they have plenty of them now. And that is a sad fact of today’s people.

The other sad fact is, many people today equate earthly blessings to spiritual blessings - they drive up in their latest model SUVs to the biggest church in town… When it is the exact opposite. Having a lot of earthly riches actually equates to going to hell later (Matthew 19:24 "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”"), unless God is truly in the center of our lives.

Accepting this Biblical-fact: that a true believer must pray the Lord’s Prayer daily may seem difficult at first. This is because most churches have brainwashed people for years into thinking “do nothing, nothing at all, just mark the front of your Bible with the date you were saved / born-again / etc.”. This daily prayer to God is not “works”. It is obedience of a true believer. No wonder there is no peace on earth yet (Luke 2:14). No one has been praying it properly.

Miracles happen when we pray the Lord’s Prayer

The moment we say this prayer we become "Righteous" in the eyes of God, and therefore become standing in the presence of God (through the Holy Spirit within us) (Luke 1:19, 1Kings 18:15). 

A true believer can perform miracles at this moment. 

This is how Jesus performed miracles:

  Step 1: Forgive sins
  Step 2: Miracle

  Mark gave us a glimpse of this in Mark 2:5, 11, & 12. Without Step1, can’t do Step2. 

So, for us it is:

  Step 1: The Lord’s Prayer for the forgiveness of sins
  Step 2: In the name of Jesus Christ… miracle

But without the main ingredient, faith, nothing can be done. Even Jesus Himself could not perform miracles where there was no faith among people of that town (Mark 6:5). 

He instructed His followers; to perform miracles in His name (John 14:12-14, Mark 16:17-18, Mark 9:39). 

Go ahead, start praying this prayer daily. And pray it again in the presence of someone in need of a miracle. And don't freak-out when the miracle happens, it would show lack of faith. Jesus said we can move mountains (Matthew 17:20), and that we will do greater miracles than the ones He did! That's right, that's what Jesus said in John 14:12-14. And also in Acts 2:17 “’In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."

We are there now; much closer to the "last days" now than they were back when Acts was written. I believe praying the Lord's Prayer properly will usher-in this new generation of people as predicted in John and Acts.

The church is the body of Christ.

So how come you pray to be given yourself daily.

Theres no Manna falling from the sky so we need to work and pray, its ora et labora.