Diaste Posted April 5, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,641 Content Per Day: 1.98 Reputation: 2,373 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 5, 2022 21 hours ago, DeighAnn said: I don't know what those are A priori is common knowledge, knowing without observation, testing or evidence. Didomi is the word for given in the text on Rev 6. Definitions are helpful. 21 hours ago, DeighAnn said: Does this being written in a different part of the book somehow make the TRUTH of what is written somewhere else just DISAPPEAR and cease to be a truth? If so how does that work? Where does GOD say 'when' I use the word 'souls' it means a SEPARATION has taken place? No. both are truth. If the text says a thing then that's what it says and means. We aren't authorized to add or subtract. Jesus isn't making a mistake. Gap filling is dangerous path and arguing from silence is same. 21 hours ago, DeighAnn said: 1Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? DON'T YOU THINK THAT IF THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY THAT WE 'RAISED' WITH NO BODY THAT THIS WOULD BE REMOVED OR THIS WOULD BE ADDED Doesn't matter what I think. I read and listen. I don't add, I wait for knowledge. 21 hours ago, DeighAnn said: 'OR DO THEY EVEN COME WITH A BODY'? Just as God has the eternal plan that must BE HELD as truth, so do His truths. I ask again and HOPEFULLY YOU WILL GIVE ME AN ANSWER. HOW DO YOU SEPARATE THE BODY FROM SOUL/SPIRIT for this part of the story? 1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, AND TO EVERY SEED HIS OWN BODY. Just because I don't understand how does not mean it isn't a fact. I don't have to know how or why to trust in Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah7 Posted April 5, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,610 Content Per Day: 2.40 Reputation: 3,183 Days Won: 11 Joined: 05/25/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Diaste said: 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised aphthartos, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on aphtharsia, and this thnétos [must] put on athanasia. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on aphtharsia, and this thnétos shall have put on athanasia, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. aphthartos Phonetic Spelling: (af'-thar-tos) Definition: undecaying, imperishable Usage: indestructible, imperishable, incorruptible; hence: immortal. aphtharsia Phonetic Spelling: (af-thar-see'-ah) Definition: incorruptibility Usage: indestructibility, incorruptibility; hence: immortality. thnétos Phonetic Spelling: (thnay-tos') Definition: subject to death Usage: mortal, subject to death. Transliteration: athanasia Phonetic Spelling: (ath-an-as-ee'-ah) Definition: immortality Usage: immortality, imperishability, freedom from death. This is all about the body made immortal. And whether it's indestructible, incorruptible or imperishable it's all the same idea, a forever body I never heard it was only some. Is there a scripture or two for this? Good morning, Diaste. Okay, let me try to explain what I believe is the point of the passage in 1 Corinthians 15:51-54. I’ll post it: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. This mystery will be a time when all flesh bodies of persons still alive will be changed instantly from their flesh bodies into their new incorruptible bodies. All people will get an incorruptible body. Even a person who is spiritually dead will take on a new incorruptible body in which he will live throughout the Millennial age kingdom of Christ. The condition of the soul has nothing to do with the transformation from the flesh body to the new spiritual or incorruptible body. A person who was lost before the change will still be lost; and someone who has received Jesus Christ and is under His shed blood will still be in that same spiritual condition. When the seventh trump sounds, all flesh will be done away with and all souls will now exist in their spiritual bodies. Those who enter the First Resurrection will now have an immortal body, but those who do not will still have a body that is not immortal; in other words, the soul is mortal and still liable to die. These souls will be taught during the Millennium, and after this will be the GWTJ. If they confess Jesus Christ as Savior, they will go through the second resurrection and now will take on an immortal body. If they deny Christ, they will face the second death in the lake of fire where they will perish, along with Satan. Did this help, @Diaste? Should I provide more Scripture? in His GRACE, Selah Edited April 5, 2022 by Selah7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transmogrified Posted April 5, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 795 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted April 5, 2022 4 hours ago, Diaste said: Transliteration: athanasia Phonetic Spelling: (ath-an-as-ee'-ah) Definition: immortality Usage: immortality, imperishability, freedom from death. This is all about the body made immortal. And whether it's indestructible, incorruptible or imperishable it's all the same idea, a forever body Yes, indeed. Quote And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. Quote That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. Quote Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. These bodies will be fashioned like unto his glorious body.... Quote Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, If we live forever and our bodies going to be like Jesus and the angels and we never will perish, then we are un-perishable. It is an attribute of the celestial body, or our house from heaven...it is when this mortal puts on immortality...mortal means subject to death...immortal can never die...incorruption, or un-perishable are just two words pointing to the same thing...Scripture uses both of these terms 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transmogrified Posted April 5, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 795 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted April 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Selah7 said: All people will get an incorruptible body. Even a person who is spiritually dead will take on a new incorruptible body in which he will live throughout the Millennial age kingdom of Christ. Only those in Christ will get glorified bodies that will never die...at Armageddon Jesus comes and slays all those armies gathered there...the blood is up to the horses bridles...if they were in glorified bodies they could not have been killed..the same for Gog and Magog at the end of the 1000 years...the nations gather against the saints of the Most High and fire comes down and destroys them..if they were in glorified bodies they could never have died... Also at the Great White throne there is a resurrection and death and hell give up the dead which are in them...if no one died during the 1000 years there would be no one in death or hell or to give ....but what does he say...? He says 'I saw the dead stand before God and the dead were judged out of those things written in the books...' And it is not the wicked dead from this age who stood before God at the Great White Throne...the tares were already resurrected and judged at the second coming along with the wheat at the harvest, which was the end of THIS age, not the end of the NEXT age...so people die during the 1000 years...the nations who come under the rule of Jesus at the Second Coming are natural humans living in mortal bodies who are alive on the earth at the Second Coming...these nations convert and come under the rule of Christ.. It does say the child shall die being an hundred years old, so it does seem they live longer, but the child still died..if the child was immortal the child would have never died.. Blessings to you- Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah7 Posted April 5, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,610 Content Per Day: 2.40 Reputation: 3,183 Days Won: 11 Joined: 05/25/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, transmogrified said: Only those in Christ will get glorified bodies that will never die...at Armageddon Jesus comes and slays all those armies gathered there...the blood is up to the horses bridles...if they were in glorified bodies they could not have been killed..the same for Gog and Magog at the end of the 1000 years. What exactly do you mean by glorified bodies? . . . Revelation 14: (18)And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: Hmmm… you don’t harvest “grapes” with a sickle. (19) And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. (20) And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. “Without the city” means that the wrath of God will not be poured out on those who love Him—the Saints. Check it out in the book of Joel. Joel 3:12-15 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about. (13) Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great. It’s harvest time. Lots and lots of juice from this press will produce a river as high as a horse's bridle. And when does all this occur? Joel tells us! It’s the Day of the Lord! Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. “Multitudes, multitudes" are squeezed in this winepress (figuratively, of course) and there will be more than a few drops of blood (figuratively, of course). Edited April 5, 2022 by Selah7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted April 5, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.60 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 5, 2022 9 hours ago, transmogrified said: There are only two bodies..Paul said there is a terrestrial body and there is a celestial body..when we die our bodies return to the dust from whence they came...our spirt returns to God who gave it...but this condition is called 'sleeping in Jesus..' Are you saying not every seed a body or when the earthen vessels dissolves we have a spiritual 'house' eternal in heavens? Christ make it clear that 'sleeping' was death when He went from one to the other. Do you believe we NEVER DIE or do you believe we DO DIE and then will be raised up? 9 hours ago, transmogrified said: David said I will be satisfied when I awake in thy likeness...when do the dead awake from their sleep? It is on the last day when we are resurrected and are changed...Paul said we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in a twinkle of an eye, at the last trump...not when we die, but at the last trump...this is when this mortality shall put on immortality... Do you believe that David 'rose' with Christ's dead body at His resurrection or not? I understand Paul is explaining that on the day Christ returns the alive will be changed, but if those who have taken the mark of the beast are changed that would mean they don't die but receive their immortality. How can that be? 9 hours ago, transmogrified said: What Daniel said was that 'many that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.' This means they are not awake right now, and it also means they have not yet received their glorified bodies, but they are awaiting that time when they will be changed... Again, you don't believer 'the graves opened' or they rose with Christ's dead body or He led the captivity but that is a future event? 9 hours ago, transmogrified said: Like Job 14:14 says "If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my appointed time will I wait until my change comes...' He did not say 'at the point of my death I will be changed, but rather he would wait UNTIL his change comes... I always remember God said this of the conversations that took place in Job Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted April 5, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.60 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 5, 2022 5 hours ago, Diaste said: Didomi is the word for given in the text on Rev 6. Definitions are helpful. Thank you. 5 hours ago, Diaste said: No. both are truth. If the text says a thing then that's what it says and means. We aren't authorized to add or subtract. Jesus isn't making a mistake. Gap filling is dangerous path and arguing from silence is same. I think there is a reason 'every seed a body' is so specific because that is what is meant. So either this is taken as 'it is written' or it is taken as Hath God said which as we all know is the worst. So I am not arguing from silence here on every seed a body. 5 hours ago, Diaste said: Doesn't matter what I think. I read and listen. I don't add, I wait for knowledge. 1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. And there it is Just because I don't understand how does not mean it isn't a fact. I don't have to know how or why to trust in Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted April 5, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.60 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 5, 2022 1 hour ago, transmogrified said: Only those in Christ will get glorified bodies that will never die.. Yes, but some only get an imperishable one but remain mortal. They don't receive the glory of immortality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted April 5, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.60 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 5, 2022 1 hour ago, transmogrified said: so people die during the 1000 years. 1Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 1Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? There are only 2 deaths and the first one has occurred with the death of the flesh, yes, so the next one would be lake of fire by God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah7 Posted April 5, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,610 Content Per Day: 2.40 Reputation: 3,183 Days Won: 11 Joined: 05/25/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted April 5, 2022 16 minutes ago, DeighAnn said: Yes, but some only get an imperishable one but remain mortal. They don't receive the glory of immortality. I think you meant incorruptible instead of imperishable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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