Alive Posted April 17, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.48 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted April 17, 2022 13 hours ago, George said: And yet, out of Egypt I called my Son ... is NOT saying ... Jesus is Israel. Matthew never makes that CLAIM! Was God thru Hosea looking forward to Christ? From Hosea’s perspective, what did he understand ‘my son’ to be? I do not understand this protestation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted April 17, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2022 On 3/31/2022 at 8:17 PM, George said: Where are we prophetically in the spiritual restoration of Israel? The prophet Ezekiel in Ezekiel 37 describes a valley of dry bones ... and says this is the House of Israel. In Ezekiel 37:7-8 it says ... Ezekiel 37:7-8 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a sound, and behold, a rattling, and the bones came together, bone to its bone. And I looked, and behold, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them. But there was no breath in them. So the Lord described a dead body ... a picture of the nation of Israel scattered, lost, and without life, but then God says in Ezekiel 36 that He will regather Israel and the reason why ... here God is describing the gathering of Israel that they would RETURN PHYSICALLY before RETURNING SPIRITUALLY! The word 'breath' is the word RUACH ... or the Spirit (also translated as wind) and so the nation's restoration would be PHYSICAL first. This is where we are currently ... the re-establishment of Israel in their land that was promised to them, BUT without the Spirit yet. Side note ... the Promise to the offspring of Issac ... Psalms 105:8-11 He remembers his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations, the covenant that he made with Abraham, his sworn promise to Isaac, which he confirmed to Jacob as a statute, to Israel as an everlasting covenant, saying, “To you I will give the land of Canaan as your portion for an inheritance.” So now we are awaiting their spiritual restoration ... Ezekiel 37:14 And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I am the LORD; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD.” So you may ask how will the Spiritual restoration take place? National salvation will take place when this event takes place ... Zechariah 12:10 “Then I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication, when they will look toward Me whom they pierced. They will mourn for him as one mourns for an only son and grieve bitterly for him, as one grieves for a firstborn. We see the triunity of God working in the salvation of the Jewish people in Israel. Just so you know, this takes place just as the nations go to attack Jerusalem! The verse prior ... Zechariah 12:9 It will happen in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. There is a teaching called dual-covenant theology which explains away the need for the Jesus people needing their Messiah ... for those caught in this teaching ... Jesus said to His disciples, "I am the way, the truth, and the life ... no man comes to the Father but by me." When Jesus said this ... THERE WASN'T a GENTILE in the room! ... Until next time! Hi there! "So now we are awaiting their spiritual restoration ... " However, we disciples of Christ ARE included as fellow Israelites. So we should say: "We are awaiting OUR spiritual restoration." Christians are Israelites. Otherwise we Christians could never partake in the New Covenant that is only between God and ISRAEL (Jer. 31;Lk.22;Heb.8). Blessings.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted April 18, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2022 On 4/16/2022 at 10:25 AM, Anne2 said: The firstborn were spared from Death. Not all Israel was subject to death. It was the promises to the firstborn that were being fulfilled which their fleshly counterparts were enjoying in that blessing with them. The blood of the passover spared Who? The firstborn. Amen, a wonderful study. This reminds me of the principle of the unbelieving spouse being sanctified by the believing spouse, and the children being sanctified as well. Also Noah was the only one truly righteous but his household was saved with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted April 18, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2022 On 4/16/2022 at 9:21 PM, George said: And yet, out of Egypt I called my Son ... is NOT saying ... Jesus is Israel. Matthew never makes that CLAIM! I take it to mean Christ is the Israel of God....the Root and the Tree, which has both natural and unnatural branches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted April 18, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, BibleGuy said: Hi there! "So now we are awaiting their spiritual restoration ... " However, we disciples of Christ ARE included as fellow Israelites. So we should say: "We are awaiting OUR spiritual restoration." Christians are Israelites. Otherwise we Christians could never partake in the New Covenant that is only between God and ISRAEL (Jer. 31;Lk.22;Heb.8). Blessings.... Gentiles are not Israelites after the flesh though....but the Israel of God. He is a Jew who is Jew inwardly. Our citizenship is in the heavenly, not an earthly nation state. Even Abraham who received the geographical land of promise considered himself a stranger there and kept looking for the Israel of God. Heb 11:8-10 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. (looking for the Israel of God, heavenly Zion, New Jerusalem) Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. God doesn't want us minding earthly things. It's all about the heavenly....it's the heavenly things that we are to be concerned with, which constitute the mystery of God from the foundation of the world. Edited April 18, 2022 by Heleadethme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted April 18, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said: Gentiles aren’t Israelites after the flesh though.. What does that mean? Who is a Jew inwardly? This is the scripture I was talking about: Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. These as well, where Paul references "Israel of God" and "Israel after the flesh": Gal 6:14-16 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. 1Co 10:18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? Heb 13:9-10 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. Edited April 18, 2022 by Heleadethme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted April 18, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2022 42 minutes ago, Heleadethme said: Gentiles are not Israelites after the flesh though....but the Israel of God. He is a Jew who is Jew inwardly. Our citizenship is in the heavenly, not an earthly nation state. Even Abraham who received the geographical land of promise considered himself a stranger there and kept looking for the Israel of God. Heb 11:8-10 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. (looking for the Israel of God, heavenly Zion, New Jerusalem) Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. God doesn't want us minding earthly things. It's all about the heavenly....it's the heavenly things that we are to be concerned with, which constitute the mystery of God from the foundation of the world. Hi there! Thanks for bringing up those passages! You wrote: "Gentiles are not Israelites after the flesh though....but the Israel of God." My response: Yes, but even in the days of Moses, it was true that the Israel of God was not rigidly genetically determined, but others were invited to join Israel (Dt. 29:11-12;31:12). Thus God never intended that Israel be rigidly genetically limited. Rather, we, as the Israel of God, are to be the light to the nations (Is. 49:6), spreading the Gospel of Torah-obedient faith in Him (and in the Messiah, Dt. 18), to bring salvation and blessings to all the earth. That's OUR responsibility, as the Israel of God! You wrote: "Our citizenship is in the heavenly, not an earthly nation state." My response: Rather, our citizenship is in the forthcoming heaven-on-earth nation state! That time is yet future, and still concealed (Ac.1:6). Remember, heaven comes to EARTH...Rev. 21:2. It's not merely a permanent future non-earthly heaven. Rather, it's a future heaven-on-earth! WE share in the promised land-inheritance (Gal.3:29;Mt.5:5). That's the SAME physical geographical land promised to Abraham....from the Mediterranean to the Euphrates. "Even Abraham who received the geographical land of promise considered himself a stranger there and kept looking for the Israel of God." Exactly! Abraham has NOT yet inherited that physical geographical land promised to him. This is PROOF that Abraham will return to the physical earth and inherit the land promised to him! Heb. 11:16 expresses faith in the forthcoming heaven-on-earth. If Abraham does not return to earth to inherit the physical land, then God lied. God didn't lie! Jesus tells us Abraham will return to earth, when people from all geographical directions (north, south, west, etc.) come to see: Mt. 8:11. We will become SUPREME among the nations on earth, and all nations will serve us (Is. 60:12). Remember, prophecies of future Israel are prophecies of OUR future! We ARE Israelites... blessings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne2 Posted April 18, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,499 Content Per Day: 1.47 Reputation: 622 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said: Gentiles aren’t Israelites after the flesh though.. What does that mean? Who is a Jew inwardly? None are Israel after the flesh. That is the point of Israel which is Israel. Which this thread was focused on. Which focus is a foundation to ponder/reconsider the notion that Promises need to be fulfilled to a nation of flesh. If the identification of whom God promised things to is off, then expectation is off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted April 18, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said: Well, I have to admit I haven’t a clue who Israel is, and have no idea what God’s plan is for the Jewish people. Why do I need to know that? Hi! Because YOU are included (grafted into) God's family! God's family has a name: ISRAEL! YOU (and I) are included as fellow Israelites. (By the way, Israel is MUCH LARGER than just "the Jewish people"). Thus, it is our duty to understand God's plan for us, as Israelites in the world, so that we may serve and obey Him as He desires. We neglect our duty, our great inheritance, our prophesied future, and our moral obligations, if we ignore our identity as Israelites in Christ. You can't partake in the New Covenant inaugurated in Christ's blood (Lk.22) unless you are an Israelite! After all, the New Covenant is a Covenant only between God and ISRAEL. We must learn who we are in Christ! (Israelites! Jer. 31:33;Heb. 8:10) And, we must learn how we should live in Christ! (Torah! Jer. 31:33;Heb.8:10). Blessings to you....as you discover who you are! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne2 Posted April 18, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,499 Content Per Day: 1.47 Reputation: 622 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted April 18, 2022 1 minute ago, BibleGuy said: Hi! Because YOU are included (grafted into) God's family! God's family has a name: ISRAEL! YOU (and I) are included as fellow Israelites. (By the way, Israel is MUCH LARGER than just "the Jewish people"). Thus, it is our duty to understand God's plan for us, as Israelites in the world, so that we may serve and obey Him as He desires. We neglect our duty, our great inheritance, our prophesied future, and our moral obligations, if we ignore our identity as Israelites in Christ. You can't partake in the New Covenant inaugurated in Christ's blood (Lk.22) unless you are an Israelite! After all, the New Covenant is a Covenant only between God and ISRAEL. We must learn who we are in Christ! (Israelites! Jer. 31:33;Heb. 8:10) And, we must learn how we should live in Christ! (Torah! Jer. 31:33;Heb.8:10). Blessings to you....as you discover who you are! But....when it passes to Joseph, and his seed by Adoption who is ISRAEL? Ephraim is made first born over Menasseh. Ephriam Is to be called by the name of Israel. But not Israel only as Israel. Ephraim is to Also be called by the name of Abraham, And the name of Isaac. So Jacob, Abraham and Isaac have one name: ISRAEL in Ephraim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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