Timelines

[Keras]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

I agree with you on these two points. Just remember that the first five seals are also included in the "world changer" that begins all the end time events.

Thanks for your lengthy reply. We are in much agreement.

However your belief that the first Five Seals are not yet opened, is wrong; proved by how the souls of the Christian martyrs, all since Stephen; Acts 7:39, are kept under the Altar in heaven.   Also there could not have been any worse wars, famines and plagues over the past 2000 years and becoming much worse in the last 100 years. 

54 minutes ago, MattLovesCoffee said:

Some 25 years ago I realised that it's the crucifixion, not the birth of Christ, that we need to consider as a millennial marker

I liked your timeline, except for a 'rapture to heaven', that is never prophesied and your complete miss of the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath; the world change which will commence all the end time events. 

The Next Prophesied Event:

Isaiah 61:1-2a The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because the Lord has anointed me. He has sent me to announce good news to the humble, to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and to proclaim a year of the Lords favour,

Isaiah 61:2b-3...and a Day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn, to give then garlands instead of ashes, oil of gladness, instead of mourners tears and  a garment of splendour for the distressed. They will be called trees of righteousness, planted by the Lord for His adornment.

Isaiah 61:4-11 Buildings long in ruin and desolate will be restored and rebuilt. Foreigners will serve you, caring for your flocks and vines, but you will be called priests of the Lord and the wealth of the nations will be yours. Because My people have received insults and shame in double measure, they will receive in their own Land, wealth in double measure.

For I, the Lord love justice and hate injustice, I shall give My people a sure reward and make an everlasting Covenant with them. Their posterity will be renowned among the nations, they will be seen as a people blessed by the Lord.

Let us rejoice in the Lord with all our hearts. From Him has come victory and deliverance. His people, robed in beauty are like a garden full of flowers. The Lord will make His victory and renown known to the nations.

                                                                 Reference: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.

Isaiah 61:1-2a, was quoted by Jesus at the commencement of His ministry;.... a year of the Lord’s favour’.  He stopped in mid sentence and then said: Today, in your hearing, this prophecy has come true.

Therefore, the rest of this chapter is unfulfilled prophecy. So, we look for the sequence of events to unfold as written, commencing with:

‘a Day of vengeance of our God’ - The next prophesied event. Not the Return of Jesus in His glory, but His punishment to the nations, triggered by an attack on Israel. This is prophesied and described comprehensively throughout the Bible as a terrible disaster by fire, that will affect the whole world. Isa. 63:1-6, Isa. 30:26

‘comfort all who mourn’ - All who love the Lord and follow in His Laws, those who mourn His death on the cross. Zechariah 12:9-10

‘trees of righteousness, planted in their own Land’ - His people: all faithful Christians, Jew and Gentile are gathered and settled in His holy Land, into all of that area promised to the Patriarchs, to their descendants by faith, Galatians 3:26-29, in the new country of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 20:34-36, Isaiah 26:15

‘buildings rebuilt and the land restored’ - After the devastation caused by a CME sunstrike, The Lord will regenerate the Land, Ezekiel 36:8 but buildings must be rebuilt, including the new Temple. Isaiah 65:21, Zechariah 6:15

‘foreigners will serve you’  - Isaiah 60:10...foreigners will rebuild your walls...

‘wealth of the nations will be yours’ - Zechariah 14:14  The same as what happened at the first Exodus. Exodus 11:2

‘make a Covenant with them’  - Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 34:25, Isaiah 54:10

‘from Him has come victory and deliverance’ -  Psalms 91:14-16, Psalms 44:4-7

‘known to the nations’ -  Ezekiel 39:21, Isaiah 40:5              

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, truth7t7.

I know that's what you want to believe and what someone has probably taught you, but there's judgment and then there's Judgment. Revelation 11 is when YHWH God begins to reign on the earth. He does this through His Son, Yeshua` the Messiah of God (Jesus the Christ), His Son. You can't ignore what was said JUST PRIOR to what you quoted above!

Revelation 11:15-17 (KJV)

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,

"The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever!" 

16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying,

"We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned!"

THEN, we read what you quoted:

Revelation 11:18 (KJV)

18 "And the nations were angry (Psalm 2:1), and thy wrath is come (Colossians 3:6), and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great (2 Corinthians 5:10); and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

Now, think about this carefully: The Greek words "teen geen," "τὴν γῆν," the accusative case spelled "tau-eta-nu & gamma-eta-nu," pronounced "tain gain," are often translated as "the earth." They are the words used to translate the Hebrew word "haa'aarets," "הָאָֽרֶץ," which is also often translated as "the earth." HOWEVER, both sets of words also mean "the land!" More specifically, in the Bible, they often refer to "the Land" of Israel! Seldom do they mean the entire planet. It would be very ambitious to think that any human being could "destroy the whole planet earth," but it is far more likely that John is referring to those who would attempt to destroy the Land of Israel, particularly the surrounding Muslim countries who want to see "Israel driven into the sea!"

So, what they are saying in verse 18 is that the Gentiles were angry, but God's wrath has finally come. The resurrection of the Justified by God has happened and they are judged and rewarded, based on what they did during their lifetimes. He'll reward the prophets, the holy ones (saints), and ALL who respect God's Name (Authority), whether they are just simple folks or important people, and He will destroy those who are attempting to hurt His Land Israel, or the people within the Land! Guess who will be fighting THAT war?! Yes! The Messiah Yeshua` Himself as the Lion of the Tribe of Yhudah ("Judah"), the One who will fight them with the sword out of His mouth! The One who will be zealous for His Land!

Remember: Yeshua` said that His Kingdom will start out small, like a grain of mustard seed, BUT it will grow until it's like a tree in which the birds of the air can nest! (Matthew 13:31-32). It will be during that transition time, as His Kingdom grows, that He will be fighting many battles as He subdues all the other nations of the world. (1 Corinthians 15:20-28). Most civilized countries ruled by people who have a brain will be negotiating with Him on peaceful terms, but there will always be some barbarians, some dictators, who will think they can outfight the King of kings, and they will be shown just how wrong they are!

Thanks for the response!

We Disagree, the book of Revelation is taught in "Parallel" teachings of same events

Revelation 11:18 & Revelation 20:11-15 is the very same final judgement in parallel teachings

Revelation chapters 16, 19, 20, show the very same final battle in parallel teachings

The 7th vial & the 7th Trump are parallel teachings of (The End)

In Love, We Disagree

Jesus Is The Lord

Edited April 21, 2022 by truth7t7

[Uriah]

A quick summary of my timeline:

The eschatological "tribulation" is a bit longer than 3.5 yrs. As a starting point, it is likely to nearly coincide with the Feast of Tabernacles with the arrival of the 2 witnesses near the end or at the end of a conflict against Israel. 

After 1260 days they will be slain then rise. This, to me, seems to be the point of the beginning of the cataclysmic events of Revelation, the end of which would be near or on Tish b' Av and would be when the armies of Armageddon will be defeated by Jesus, as well as the beast, when we are to meet Him in the air.  

It will likely again the be the Feast of tabernacles a short time later when New Jerusalem will arrive for the celebration with those at Jerusalem on earth.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Uriah.

4 minutes ago, Uriah said:

A quick summary of my timeline:

The eschatological "tribulation" is a bit longer than 3.5 yrs. As a starting point, it is likely to nearly coincide with the Feast of Tabernacles with the arrival of the 2 witnesses near the end or at the end of a conflict against Israel. 

After 1260 days they will be slain then rise. This, to me, seems to be the point of the beginning of the cataclysmic events of Revelation, the end of which would be near or on Tish b' Av and would be when the armies of Armageddon will be defeated by Jesus, as well as the beast, when we are to meet Him in the air.  

It will likely again the be the Feast of tabernacles a short time later when New Jerusalem will arrive for the celebration with those at Jerusalem on earth.

 

What happened to the first 1,000 years of the Messiah's Kingdom, BEFORE the New Earth and New Sky are re-made and the New Jerusalem descends to the New Earth?

[Uriah]

4 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

The 7th vial & the 7th Trump are parallel teachings of (The End)

I am actually on board with the idea of the "parallel teachings" you mention. But I cannot deny that Revelation is a book of visions and there are those kind that "stand alone" and the two witnesses vision is one of them.

[Retrobyter]

9 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Thanks for the response!

We Disagree, the book of Revelation is taught in "Parallel" teachings of same events

Revelation 11:18 & Revelation 20:11-15 is the very same final judgement in parallel teachings

Revelation chapters 16, 19, 20, show the very same final battle in parallel teachings

The 7th vial & the 7th Trump are parallel teachings of (The End)

In Love, We Disagree

Jesus Is The Lord

Shalom, truth7t7.

We can agree to disagree. That's okay. However, I think you would find that there's more DISSIMILARITIES than SIMILARITIES between the 7th Vial (Bowl) and the 7th Trumpet.

Regardless, just don't be too surprised when there's an EXTRA 1,000 years in between the Revelation 11:18 and Revelation 20:11-15. LOL!

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

I am actually on board with the idea of the "parallel teachings" you mention. But I cannot deny that Revelation is a book of visions and there are those kind that "stand alone" and the two witnesses vision is one of them.

I believe Revelation 11 (Enoch/Elijah) will be the two witnesses, the future literal prophets returned, they will be present the entire time of the 3.5 year tribulation before "The Beast" who will be a human man, a king/ruler of Jewish/Hebrew decent

I believe the plagues brought upon the world as seen in the Revelation are literal, and will be brought at their spoken words as they stand before "The Beast", a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt 

Edited April 22, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

45 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, truth7t7.

We can agree to disagree. That's okay. However, I think you would find that there's more DISSIMILARITIES than SIMILARITIES between the 7th Vial (Bowl) and the 7th Trumpet.

Regardless, just don't be too surprised when there's an EXTRA 1,000 years in between the Revelation 11:18 and Revelation 20:11-15. LOL!

We Disagree

No such thing as a future literal 1,000 year millennial kingdom on this earth found in scripture, its a fabricated fairy tale of man

Revelation 20:1-6 doesn't show a kingdom on earth, with mortal humans running about, it's 100% spiritual realm, Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

Millennialist use the words "Thousand Years" in Revelation 20:4-6, then jump off into the old testament chapters that show the "Eternal Kingdom" in the New Heaven and Earth, and Millennialist falsely claim its their 1,000 year kingdom "Wrong"

Examples: Isaiah chapters 11 & 65, Ezekiel chapter 47, Zechariah chapter 14, these all represent the "Eternal Kingdom" not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as claimed

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Edited April 22, 2022 by truth7t7

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

What happened to the first 1,000 years of the Messiah's Kingdom, BEFORE the New Earth and New Sky are re-made and the New Jerusalem descends to the New Earth?

Again I say, the new heaven and new earth appear when Jesus is seem in

Rev. 6:14- And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Also, in

Rev 20:7-10- And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The passage above belongs in parentheses. The following verses about the Great White Throne etc. return back to the previous narrative regarding the BEGINNING of the 1,000 yrs. Otherwise we would be waiting a thousand years to rule and reign with him.

[Uriah]

52 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

I believe Revelation 11 (Enoch/Elijah) will be the two witnesses, the future literal prophets returned, they will be present the entire time of the 3.5 year tribulation before "The Beast" who will be a human man, a king/ruler of Jewish/Hebrew decent

I believe the plagues brought upon the world as seen in the Revelation are literal, and will be brought at their spoken words as they stand before "The Beast", a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt 

I think what we believe is quite similar  except  you  (I think)  hold to an extra 3.5 yr. period. I don't see it that way. My take is that Jesus was cut off half way through the 70th week of Daniel.