The Second Coming of Jesus Christ to Bozrah

[truth7t7]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

If the Bible gives a description by pointing to nature, are we not bound to investigate it? Shall we not see if a mustard seed can grow to the size of an oak? Or shall we not study a 1-year-old Lamb without blemish to get a clearer picture of Jesus the Passover?

If you say; "Jesus will not be found on earth" and He Himself said it will be an event seen like lightening, who shall I believe?

But let us agree at last - Tim La Haye did write fiction. But I quoted Matthew 24.

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End)

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Edited April 28, 2022 by truth7t7

[AdHoc]

16 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End)

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

You have just given verses that show LOCAL judgment. Zechariah concerns the day that the Lord comes and you have any number of activities involving the earth and living men.Read the rest of Zechariah 14 to see all the amazing things that happen AFTER the Lord's Coming. They don't sound burned up to me.

Likewise in Luke 17. Sodom is likened to the earth, but four escaped. The fifth - the Intercessor Abraham was far away on high ground in a place called Hebron. Hebron means "fellowship". Of the four who escaped in disgrace, three ended up in incest and one became something good - salt - but only if spread around, not pillared. The incest brought offspring who eventually became the enemies of Jerusalem. I guess one almost has a perfect picture of the Millennium

• The earth badly hurt by the by God's wrath revealed from heaven (the Seals) - the Great Tribulation
• Israel (depicted by Lot) escaping but to Zoar (which mean "insignificant" since they forfeit the Kingdom of Heaven)
• The nations depicted by the daughters of Lot bearing offspring during the Millennium and multiplying
• The multiplied nations eventually rising up against Jerusalem under Magog
• Lot's wife depicting slothful Christians who should be salt of the earth but became ineffectual
• Abraham depicting the Overcomers raptured on high, in fellowship with, and pleasing to, God

I think you chose a great picture about the universal judgment of the Great Tribulation and its aftermath.

[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, AdHoc said:

You have just given verses that show LOCAL judgment. Zechariah concerns the day that the Lord comes and you have any number of activities involving the earth and living men.Read the rest of Zechariah 14 to see all the amazing things that happen AFTER the Lord's Coming. They don't sound burned up to me.

Likewise in Luke 17. Sodom is likened to the earth, but four escaped. The fifth - the Intercessor Abraham was far away on high ground in a place called Hebron. Hebron means "fellowship". Of the four who escaped in disgrace, three ended up in incest and one became something good - salt - but only if spread around, not pillared. The incest brought offspring who eventually became the enemies of Jerusalem. I guess one almost has a perfect picture of the Millennium

• The earth badly hurt by the by God's wrath revealed from heaven (the Seals) - the Great Tribulation
• Israel (depicted by Lot) escaping but to Zoar (which mean "insignificant" since they forfeit the Kingdom of Heaven)
• The nations depicted by the daughters of Lot bearing offspring during the Millennium and multiplying
• The multiplied nations eventually rising up against Jerusalem under Magog
• Lot's wife depicting slothful Christians who should be salt of the earth but became ineffectual
• Abraham depicting the Overcomers raptured on high, in fellowship with, and pleasing to, God

I think you chose a great picture about the universal judgment of the Great Tribulation and its aftermath.

(The End)

Nahum 1:5KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

[Retrobyter]

On 4/27/2022 at 5:45 PM, truth7t7 said:

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium?

 

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

 

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

 

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

 

Matthew 24:23-27KJV

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

Revelation 13:13-14KJV

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

 

Revelation 19:20KJV

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Shabbat shalom, truth7t7.

You're going to have a LOT of back-peddling to do when the Messiah Yeshua` comes! I hope you LIKE to eat crow! "Messiah" means the "Anointed One" whom God selected to be ISRAEL'S KING! There's a REASON why Yeshua` was called "the Christ!"

Yeshua` Himself covered a LOT of time in Matthew 24. Think about it: When one sets himself up as God's "messiah" and has a following, as in the Bar Kokhba Revolt of 135 A.D., it TAKES TIME to oust him as a false "messiah" and show others that he couldn't be the One prophesied in the Prophets! And, there was a time in the First Century A.D. when it was POPULAR to claim to be a "messiah" just to uncover bands of Jews who were expecting the Messiah to come! Yeshua` warned His students AGAINST such claims by telling them that His REAL Coming will be VERY OBVIOUS, like "lightning flashing in the east and revealing buildings and landmarks in the west by the brightness of the lightning!" He warned them that there would be "vultures" waiting to POUNCE on their "carcasses!"

Yeshua` forwarned His disciples - who were all "children of Israel," btw - that there would be "wars, rumors of wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes all over the earth" but "the end was not yet!" He was covering - in ONE speech - ONE prophecy- a (2000 or more)-year future history! All of those disasters, some of which are natural disasters, couldn't happen in just a few years' time!

What Yeshua` was telling His disciples was that there was MUCH to go through before His Coming would be realized. Don't call the Coming of the TRUE Messiah of God a "coming of the antichrist!" You WILL regret it!

[Retrobyter]

On 4/27/2022 at 6:00 PM, truth7t7 said:

Jeremiah chapter 49 is historical, battles fought long ago, there won't be a millennium on this earth, Jesus returns in fire and final judgment, dissolving this earth by fire

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Shabbat shalom, truth7t7.

When Lowt left S'dowm and it rained fire and burning sulfurous rocks from the skies, that was a LOCALIZED event! It didn't happen all over the planet Earth!

On 4/27/2022 at 6:00 PM, truth7t7 said:

Nahum 1:5KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

When Nachuwm prophesied this, look at the context! First, the book itself is called,

Nahum 1:1 (KJV)

1 The Burden of Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.

Here's the rest of the first chapter:

Nahum 1:2-15 (KJV)

2 God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies. 3 The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hathhis way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. 4 He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers: Bashan languisheth, and Carmel, and the flower of Lebanon languisheth. 5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth (the land) is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein. 6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him. 8 But with an overrunning flood he will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue his enemies. 9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time. 10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry. 11 There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil against the LORD, a wicked counseller. 12 Thus saith the LORD; Though they be quiet, and likewise many, yet thus shall they be cut down, when he shall pass through. Though I have afflicted thee, I will afflict thee no more. 13 For now will I break his yoke from off thee, and will burst thy bonds in sunder. 14 And the LORD hath given a commandment concerning thee, that no more of thy name be sown: out of the house of thy gods will I cut off the graven image and the molten image: I will make thy grave; for thou art vile. 15 Behold upon the mountains the feet of him that bringeth good tidings (gospel), that publisheth peace! O Judah, keep thy solemn feasts, perform thy vows: for the wicked shall no more pass through thee; he is utterly cut off.

The rest of the book is about the overthrow and destruction of Nineveh, not the "whole earth!" Again, this is a LOCALIZED event!

You really need to understand that the Hebrew word "erets" means "LAND," not the planet!

[Retrobyter]

11 hours ago, AdHoc said:

You have just given verses that show LOCAL judgment. Zechariah concerns the day that the Lord comes and you have any number of activities involving the earth and living men.Read the rest of Zechariah 14 to see all the amazing things that happen AFTER the Lord's Coming. They don't sound burned up to me.

Likewise in Luke 17. Sodom is likened to the earth, but four escaped. The fifth - the Intercessor Abraham was far away on high ground in a place called Hebron. Hebron means "fellowship". Of the four who escaped in disgrace, three ended up in incest and one became something good - salt - but only if spread around, not pillared. The incest brought offspring who eventually became the enemies of Jerusalem. I guess one almost has a perfect picture of the Millennium

• The earth badly hurt by the by God's wrath revealed from heaven (the Seals) - the Great Tribulation
• Israel (depicted by Lot) escaping but to Zoar (which mean "insignificant" since they forfeit the Kingdom of Heaven)
• The nations depicted by the daughters of Lot bearing offspring during the Millennium and multiplying
• The multiplied nations eventually rising up against Jerusalem under Magog
• Lot's wife depicting slothful Christians who should be salt of the earth but became ineffectual
• Abraham depicting the Overcomers raptured on high, in fellowship with, and pleasing to, God

I think you chose a great picture about the universal judgment of the Great Tribulation and its aftermath.

Shalom, AdHoc.

Some things in a prophecy have to do with the local events that happen in the present or near future to the writing of the prophecy. Some things expand to include the entire earth (actually "all the lands"), while some things expand to distant future events and periods. The ONLY way to understand which is which is CONTEXT!

ALL OF US are guilty from time to time of reading into the Scriptures what we expect to find. It's just human nature to do so. However, it is all the more important AT THOSE TIMES for us to take a step back, clear our heads of our agendas and expected results, and see what the AUTHOR wanted us to see from HIS writings - from HIS perspective! IF (and that's a BIG "IF") the author is saying what we thought he would say, great. BUT, if it can be shown that he meant something OTHER than what we expected to find, we need to be willing to make whatever concessions we need to make and be prepared to make CHANGES to what we expected to find!

We don't go hunting in the Scriptures for support of our theories! We let the Scriptures SPEAK TO US about the truth, and let the truth form our understanding! This is the difference between "eisegesis" and "exegesis."

Analogies and allegorical thinking are NOT Scripture! It might be "interesting conjecture," but don't think of it as "gospel truth!"

The complex allegory you are depicting here is "interesting" to consider, but I believe there are flaws to your logic and to your interpretation of certain terms and labels, such as "the Great Tribulation" and "the Kingdom of Heaven." I also find it ... STRETCHED to say that "Lowt's wife = ineffectual slothful Christians who should be the salt of the earth." Talk about trying to fit a square peg into a round hole!

[truth7t7]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, truth7t7.

You're going to have a LOT of back-peddling to do when the Messiah Yeshua` comes! I hope you LIKE to eat crow! "Messiah" means the "Anointed One" whom God selected to be ISRAEL'S KING! There's a REASON why Yeshua` was called "the Christ!"

Yeshua` Himself covered a LOT of time in Matthew 24. Think about it: When one sets himself up as God's "messiah" and has a following, as in the Bar Kokhba Revolt of 135 A.D., it TAKES TIME to oust him as a false "messiah" and show others that he couldn't be the One prophesied in the Prophets! And, there was a time in the First Century A.D. when it was POPULAR to claim to be a "messiah" just to uncover bands of Jews who were expecting the Messiah to come! Yeshua` warned His students AGAINST such claims by telling them that His REAL Coming will be VERY OBVIOUS, like "lightning flashing in the east and revealing buildings and landmarks in the west by the brightness of the lightning!" He warned them that there would be "vultures" waiting to POUNCE on their "carcasses!"

Yeshua` forwarned His disciples - who were all "children of Israel," btw - that there would be "wars, rumors of wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes all over the earth" but "the end was not yet!" He was covering - in ONE speech - ONE prophecy- a (2000 or more)-year future history! All of those disasters, some of which are natural disasters, couldn't happen in just a few years' time!

What Yeshua` was telling His disciples was that there was MUCH to go through before His Coming would be realized. Don't call the Coming of the TRUE Messiah of God a "coming of the antichrist!" You WILL regret it!

As has been clearly shown, Jesus won't walk upon this earth again, the future claimed Messiah in Jerusalem will be the Antichrist "Beware"!

[truth7t7]

6 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, truth7t7.

When Lowt left S'dowm and it rained fire and burning sulfurous rocks from the skies, that was a LOCALIZED event! It didn't happen all over the planet Earth!

When Nachuwm prophesied this, look at the context! First, the book itself is called,

Nahum 1:1 (KJV)

1 The Burden of Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.

Here's the rest of the first chapter:

Nahum 1:2-15 (KJV)

2 God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies. 3 The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hathhis way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. 4 He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers: Bashan languisheth, and Carmel, and the flower of Lebanon languisheth. 5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth (the land) is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein. 6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him. 8 But with an overrunning flood he will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue his enemies. 9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time. 10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry. 11 There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil against the LORD, a wicked counseller. 12 Thus saith the LORD; Though they be quiet, and likewise many, yet thus shall they be cut down, when he shall pass through. Though I have afflicted thee, I will afflict thee no more. 13 For now will I break his yoke from off thee, and will burst thy bonds in sunder. 14 And the LORD hath given a commandment concerning thee, that no more of thy name be sown: out of the house of thy gods will I cut off the graven image and the molten image: I will make thy grave; for thou art vile. 15 Behold upon the mountains the feet of him that bringeth good tidings (gospel), that publisheth peace! O Judah, keep thy solemn feasts, perform thy vows: for the wicked shall no more pass through thee; he is utterly cut off.

The rest of the book is about the overthrow and destruction of Nineveh, not the "whole earth!" Again, this is a LOCALIZED event!

You really need to understand that the Hebrew word "erets" means "LAND," not the planet!

Scripture clearly teaches of "Global" fire and destruction, claims of "Localized" destruction is contrary to scripture

Nahum 1:5KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Edited April 30, 2022 by truth7t7

[AdHoc]

17 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, AdHoc.

Some things in a prophecy have to do with the local events that happen in the present or near future to the writing of the prophecy. Some things expand to include the entire earth (actually "all the lands"), while some things expand to distant future events and periods. The ONLY way to understand which is which is CONTEXT!

ALL OF US are guilty from time to time of reading into the Scriptures what we expect to find. It's just human nature to do so. However, it is all the more important AT THOSE TIMES for us to take a step back, clear our heads of our agendas and expected results, and see what the AUTHOR wanted us to see from HIS writings - from HIS perspective! IF (and that's a BIG "IF") the author is saying what we thought he would say, great. BUT, if it can be shown that he meant something OTHER than what we expected to find, we need to be willing to make whatever concessions we need to make and be prepared to make CHANGES to what we expected to find!

We don't go hunting in the Scriptures for support of our theories! We let the Scriptures SPEAK TO US about the truth, and let the truth form our understanding! This is the difference between "eisegesis" and "exegesis."

Analogies and allegorical thinking are NOT Scripture! It might be "interesting conjecture," but don't think of it as "gospel truth!"

The complex allegory you are depicting here is "interesting" to consider, but I believe there are flaws to your logic and to your interpretation of certain terms and labels, such as "the Great Tribulation" and "the Kingdom of Heaven." I also find it ... STRETCHED to say that "Lowt's wife = ineffectual slothful Christians who should be the salt of the earth." Talk about trying to fit a square peg into a round hole!

Shalom to you too brother.

I cannot agree more. Everything you say is correct. Every time I write something there is a good chance I'm wrong. Also, a type of something is never the complete picture, and it does not contain all the detail. One man finds more, the next finds less. Be assured though, I never build doctrine on a type - only on direct statements. In this case, my opponent LIKENED Sodom's judgment to the end of the world. I just showed him what it could also be LIKENED to. The only people designated as salt in the Bible are Christians. Christians can lose their flavor - and be cast out. Lot's wife is saved from the judgment of God, but instead of being spread upon the earth - which is what is done with salt to prevent corruption - she is a pillar. That means that she had a very limited effect because only the foot of the pillar touched the plain of Sodom.

But if you have seen something else, I'd be glad to hear it. But it's not a challenge. I agree with what you said.

Go well.

Edited April 30, 2022 by AdHoc
spelling

[Joulre2abba]

12 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Scripture clearly teaches of "Global" fire and destruction, claims of "Localized" destruction is contrary to scripture

Nahum 1:5KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Nahum prophecies judgementary destruction of God upon Ninevah. Only Ninevah. The word world is used metaphorically to refer to only those nearby cities who'd hear of it and cheerfully applaud it's demise. Read all three chapters.