One World This or That

[Heleadethme]

49 minutes ago, Alive said:

When asking a question such as this, it is very difficult for many to not appeal to a construct, rather than strictly clear scriptural references.

I think this is what it means because of………take your pick.

 

Amen.  Especially when it comes to trying to resolve apparent contradictions in scripture...making things up ourselves to try and resolve them.  We need to bring our thoughts CAPTIVE to the word of God and not go beyond what is written.  We can only stand on solid ground, not "kinda-sorta-maybe" scenarios.  It's far better to remain in a state of not understanding and wait on the Lord as long as it takes for Him to give us the understanding.

[Alive]

4 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

There is a problem though because of what some beliefs can lead to.  I encountered someone who believes the church is going to rule this world by force, with earthly weapons.  They believe force is what the "rod of iron" is all about.  Whoa Nellie.... I was astounded, having never heard of anyone who believed that before.  How does one  deal with something like that?  That's not something I can have any fellowship with, but nor could I refuse to at least try to help them see the truth, pointing out the scriptures that tell us what the rod of iron is.  There are things that need to be contended with, and it matters what we believe in very real ways. 

That sounds like someone took an old teaching a step further. Men do such things to round folks up.

I encountered a group that saw the church as militant and the idea was to bring in the kingdom. That one started with a group or movement out of California in the 70’s called ‘The Walk’. The leader of that group and his wife and followers joined up with the leaders of another group called ‘The Move’. These things never end well.

I knew these men.

[Heleadethme]

2 hours ago, Alive said:

That sounds like someone took an old teaching a step further. Men do such things to round folks up.

I encountered a group that saw the church as militant and the idea was to bring in the kingdom. That one started with a group or movement out of California in the 70’s called ‘The Walk’. The leader of that group and his wife and followers joined up with the leaders of another group called ‘The Move’. These things never end well.

I knew these men.

Wow I didn't know that....had never heard of it before in evangelical circles.  But it all sounds like the same thinking behind the "Crusades" of the middle ages.  It's not the Way that Jesus taught and demonstrated...and doesn't come from HIS Spirit. 

Do we still have fellowship with believers or groups who are on that path?  I just don't see how.  It's not the gospel that Jesus and the apostles brought.

[WilliamL]

On 5/22/2022 at 10:27 AM, Alive said:

Alive’s assertion: all verses folks use to assert a one world/all world government are inferential and are thus informed by a preconception.

Prove me wrong.

I would say that you are at best technically right. At best we can say that the Beast kingdom will rule over most of the world. It will not, for example, rule over the Rev. 12 saints who flee to the wilderness, being protected by God. Nor the 144,000, nor those who refuse the mark.

However, the Beast kingdom will claim worldwide authority, and those who support it will believe likewise. And Jesus did talk about "the prince/archon/ruler of this world," generally acknowledged to be Satan, who is to "give him [the Beast] his power, and his seat, and great authority." Rev. 13:2 So if Jesus acknowledges that there is an archon that has authority over the world, then who are you to dispute this?

[Alive]

31 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

I would say that you are at best technically right. At best we can say that the Beast kingdom will rule over most of the world. It will not, for example, rule over the Rev. 12 saints who flee to the wilderness, being protected by God. Nor the 144,000, nor those who refuse the mark.

However, the Beast kingdom will claim worldwide authority, and those who support it will believe likewise. And Jesus did talk about "the prince/archon/ruler of this world," generally acknowledged to be Satan, who is to "give him [the Beast] his power, and his seat, and great authority." Rev. 13:2 So if Jesus acknowledges that there is an archon that has authority over the world, then who are you to dispute this?

All but one bit of that is inference. Jesus did say that about Lucifer. Do you not see it?

[WilliamL]

12 minutes ago, Alive said:

All but one bit of that is inference. Jesus did say that about Lucifer. Do you not see it?

See what? Your reply is too vague.

[Alive]

31 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

See what? Your reply is too vague.

You are not answering the question.

:-)

[WilliamL]

28 minutes ago, Alive said:

You are not answering the question.

:-)

You are playing mind games. William out.

[Diaste]

On 5/22/2022 at 10:27 AM, Alive said:

Alive’s assertion: all verses folks use to assert a one world/all world government are inferential and are thus informed by a preconception.

Prove me wrong.

While doing so, be careful not to add to the words of scripture…let’s keep it simple.

I don't see that or cashless society. I see allegiance given to the beast to be able to buy and sell.

[truth7t7]

On 5/24/2022 at 5:11 AM, Alive said:

That sounds like someone took an old teaching a step further. Men do such things to round folks up.

I encountered a group that saw the church as militant and the idea was to bring in the kingdom. That one started with a group or movement out of California in the 70’s called ‘The Walk’. The leader of that group and his wife and followers joined up with the leaders of another group called ‘The Move’. These things never end well.

I knew these men.

THE WALK

John Robert Stevens   1919 - 1983

    
      Also known as the Church of the Living Word, this cult is led by "Apostle" John Robert Stevens.  At least 100 churches in the United States are allied with this "restoration movement."
     Although The Walk publicly denies sanctioning any extrabiblical revelation, Stevens claims that "God has given the apostolic ministry a unique ability to break into new levels in God and then impart them to the people."  The elite members of the organization are known as the "apostolic company," and they reportedly receive "new levels of revelation" on a regular basis.  All members of The Walk are expected to submit to such revelations.
     Stevens, like many other cult leaders, is extremely intolerant of individuality.  He wrote a book in 1977 called "From Many Comes One," in which he claims that "the day of individuality is ending.  Christ is coming to be glorified in His saints, not that a lot of individuals will be running around with Christ glorified in them, but that they will lose their own identity as saints...God does not seem interested in giving His people anything as individuals to make them happy and contented... God does not want to protract the problem of individuality."  From an orthodox Christian standpoint, Stevens' description of Christ is disturbingly similar to that of "Big Brother" of George Orwell's "1984."
      Stevens also places a strong emphasis on authority and subjection, and exhorts members of the cult to totally submit to himself and the "apostolic company," using the rationale of "Divine Right" used by kings in the Middle Ages to cement their authority over their subjects: "Those who are submissive will accept a word of authority over them, even when that word is wrong...If the Lord has revealed the authority over you, you can be submissive, even when the authority deviates from the will of God.  In other words, you can receive some wrong words of direction and still be a winner." One pastor in The Walk even claimed that he "would follow Brother Stevens to hell" and be honored by God for submitting to the will of Stevens.
     The Walk is also involved in psychic and borderline occult practices.  Stevens tells his followers that "In your present state, even though you are a Christian, your eyes are still not seeing the spirit world, your ears are not hearing the spirit world...You must work your way up to the higher plane." Members of the cult practice such rituals as the "glory chain," which can supposedly be used to transfer God's blessings through people.  This is done by placing the right hand, palm up, underneath another cultist's left hand (also palm up) and transferring the blessing through the back of his hand.  Stevens also teaches that astral projection can be performed, and cites I Corinthians 5:3-4 for support, claiming that Paul was able to project his soul to Corinth from a distant point.
     Martha Stevens, who was married to Apostle Stevens for 40 years, filed for divorce in 1979.  During the proceedings, she revealed that Stevens' holdings could amount to $40 million.  A California newspaper then launched an investigation of the Church of the Living Word, and learned that it had conducted a Nevada silver mine fraud that allegedly cheated members of the cult out of at least $500,000.  Stevens also possessed an extensive art collection and $29,000 in silver bars, and hired an attorney for the divorce suit, paying him $10,000 plus $125 per hour.  Martha claims, "My husband has total control of the church and its funds, and total access to all church finances.  He is, in essence, the church himself."

The Living Word Fellowship is a group of nondenominational Christian churches located in the United States, Canada, Brazil, and Mexico,[1] often described as a new religious movement or cult.[2] The group was founded in South Gate, California, by John Robert Stevens in 1951.[3] It has been known in the past informally as "The Walk" or "This Walk", reflecting the view that every Christian should have a personal walk with Jesus Christ.[3]

At its peak in the 1970s, the fellowship had about 100 member congregations. It was based at Shiloh, a farm and retreat site near Washington, Iowa. Membership declined after founder Stevens' death in 1983.[2]

Anthony Cox's 1985 documentary film Vain Glory deals with his experiences as a member of "The Walk."[2] Cox, who was involved in the group from 1971 to 1977, described the Church of the Living Word as "a pseudo-Christian cult" and said that John Robert Stevens prayed for the deaths of several U.S. political leaders and practiced a form of mind control and hypnotism with the church's followers.[4] Cox also said that Stevens had considered himself to be an incarnation of Jesus Christ and that church members expected Stevens to be resurrected after his 1983 death.[4]

Edited May 27, 2022 by truth7t7