Revelation Man Posted July 7, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,072 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 552 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 7, 2022 10 hours ago, truth7t7 said: As stated the only thing going between God and man is the shed blood on Calvary "Period" We Disagree You can't answer in depth because the answer DEFEATS you, we understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkin Posted July 12, 2022 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 76 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/16/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2022 On 7/5/2022 at 5:21 AM, truth7t7 said: Matthew 24:36KJV 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. You misunderstand the context of the scripture. To begin with The verb is in the perfect tense. Jesus never said no one would ever discover or know. The English translation is poor. He said no one knows or has discovered now. It was not for the people of that time to know. It would have hindered the Apostles and believers of that time if they knew Jesus would not return to set up His kingdom for more than 2000 years. It would have decreased their motivation to build His kingdom. Daniel is told at the end that knowledge will increase and only the wise will understand, but the wicked will not understand. [NKJV} Daniel 12:4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.” In verse 10 (Dan. 12:10) Daniel is told “None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.” In Jesus parable of the thief, it was a bad thing to not know when the house was broken into. Not a Good thing. Think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deborah_ Posted July 12, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 790 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 878 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/07/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Linkin said: To begin with The verb is in the perfect tense. Jesus never said no one would ever discover or know. The English translation is poor. Not so. The Greek verb for 'know' here is oido, which doesn't follow the normal tense pattern. What appears to be the perfect tense is actually the present tense, and the translation is absolutely correct. 2 hours ago, Linkin said: In Jesus parable of the thief, it was a bad thing to not know when the house was broken into. Not a Good thing. Think about it. But Jesus' point was, it is impossible to know in advance when the thief is coming. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkin Posted July 12, 2022 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 76 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/16/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Deborah_ said: Not so. The Greek verb for 'know' here is oido, which doesn't follow the normal tense pattern. What appears to be the perfect tense is actually the present tense, and the translation is absolutely correct. But Jesus' point was, it is impossible to know in advance when the thief is coming. Yes it is the present tense, sorry I wrote that incorrectly. And so it proves that it was not for people to know at that time. It is not a statement for all time. No where does Jesus say it was impossible to know. You have poorly misunderstood the parable. God throughout all history has warned mankind of coming destruction in advance. Noah was warned 120 years [see 2 Pet. 3:5 below] before the Flood. Noah then warned the people of what was coming at that time, as''a preacher of righteousness''. Jeremiah warned Israel 40 years before the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem. Likewise Jesus warned his own Nation of the second destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem 40 years in advance. Luke 19:41-44. 2 Peter 3:5 For they are willingly oblivious to this: that the skies continued from antiquity, and the land out from water and by water having been upheld by the announcement42 of God, 6 through which [announcement] the existing order was destroyed. 7 And the present skies and land, having been set aside by the same announcement,43 are reserved for fire until the Day of Justice and the destruction of ungodly men.44 42 In Gen. 6:3 God announced to Noah that he was delaying mankind’s judgment for 120 years. This announcement withheld the judgment of the flood for the predetermined time (while Noah prepared the ark), but also brought the judgment at the appointed time 120 years later. 43 The literal meaning of Peter’s statement is that the very same announcement that God made to Noah (that judgment would come for man in 120 years) not only withheld God’s judgment of the flood until the end of the specified time, but the same statement also indicates the time of the second destruction by fire. Genesis 6:3 has a dual meaning, predicting the first destruction by flood in 120 solar years, and the second destruction by fire in 120 Jubilee years (6000 years from creation). A Jubilee year occurs every 50th year (Lev. 25). 44 Isa. 66:24; 2 Thess. 1:7-10 120 X 50 = 6000 years. Edited July 12, 2022 by Linkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkin Posted July 12, 2022 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 76 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/16/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Deborah_ said: Not so. The Greek verb for 'know' here is oido, which doesn't follow the normal tense pattern. What appears to be the perfect tense is actually the present tense, and the translation is absolutely correct. But Jesus' point was, it is impossible to know in advance when the thief is coming. Below is the literal translation from the Greek text. Matt 24:36, 42-44 “Yet about that day and the hour no one has learned, not the messengers of the heavens, except My Father only.” … 42 “Watch then, because you have not learned which hour your Master is coming. 43 Yet, understand this: Because if the home-owner had learned which watch the thief is coming, he would have watched and would not have permitted his house to be plundered. 44 Therefore, you also become ready[11] because you do not know which hour the Son of Man is coming.” Notice that Jesus did not say that no one knows (present tense). Nor did He say that no one will know (future tense). And He certainly did not say that it was impossible to learn or discover the time at some point. He said that no one has learned or discovered the timeframe of His coming at the time He made this statement. This was because the critical information had been “sealed until the time of the end” when only the “wise” will understand. The Greek word above translated “has learned” is οἶδεν. The New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance defines this word in this passage as: #3609a “to have seen or perceived, hence to know.”[12] It refers to knowledge that has been learned or discovered from observation, experience, instruction, or disclosure. It does not refer to merely a static state of knowing. Jesus said that no one has learned the timeframe of the end-times when He made the statement. He did not even know Himself at the time.[13] This in no sense precludes the possibility of discovery or learning this information at some point in the future prior to His coming, especially when it will become critical to endure in the “hour of trial.”[14] Verse 43 begins with a command to pay attention to something very important – “Yet understand this.” Jesus then gave a hypothetical parable. “Because if the home-owner had learned which watch the thief is coming, he would have watched and would not have permitted his house to be plundered.” A “watch” in Roman times was a three-hour period of time, not an exact point in time. In a parallel account in Luke 12:39 Jesus said this: “if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come,” substituting “hour” for “watch.” Yet, in Revelation 3:10 Jesus referred to the whole time of tribulation as “the hour of temptation.” In Revelation 14:7 the whole period is called “the hour of His judgement.” Revelation 17:12 states that the ten kings will reign for “one hour” with the Antichrist. In the context of Jesus’ statement in Luke 12:39, the “hour” was one segment of the night which is 12 hours long. So whether it is 1/12th of the night or 1/4th of the night, in either case it is a limited timeframe not an exact point in time. There is plenty of precedent for concluding that Jesus was not referring to the exact calendar date and time of His coming, but to the general timeframe, the season of His coming which is the time of tribulation, the 70th Week of Daniel’s prophecy. Also, notice the association between KNOWING the timeframe and WATCHING within that timeframe in Jesus’ hypothetical parable about the thief. Watching depended on first having learned the timeframe. If the householder had learned or discovered the timeframe, he would have watched for the thief during that brief window of time. If he had watched during that 3-hour timeframe, he would have avoided disaster by confronting the thief the moment of his arrival. Knowing the timeframe beforehand is a prerequisite to watching effectively. Watching for Jesus’ arrival during that limited timeframe is necessary to avoid the plundering of the house. The plundering of his house was the result of not knowing the timeframe beforehand, and therefore neglecting to watch during the critical period. On the other hand, if he had first known the timeframe, he would have watched during it and his house would not have been plundered. Jesus’ parable demonstrates that knowing the timeframe beforehand is not only good, but essential. This is precisely why Daniel was told the following: Daniel 12:4,9 (LXX) “’And you, Daniel, close the words, and seal the book until the appointed time of the end; until many should be instructed and knowledge should be multiplied.’ … And he said, ‘Go, Daniel: for the words are closed and sealed up to the time of the end. Many must be tested, and thoroughly whitened, and tried with fire, and sanctified; but the transgressors shall transgress: and none of the transgressors shall understand; but the wise shall understand.” Notice that the time of Christ’s Kingdom had been “sealed” UNTIL another block of time, prior to the arrival of the Kingdom, during which time many will be instructed and knowledge will be multiplied concerning what had been previously concealed. The early Christians knew this, and it is exactly why Paul wrote the following: 1 Timothy 6:13-16 (LGV) 13 I charge you before the God who sustains life in all things, and Anointed Jesus, the one who testified over Pontius Pilate the good profession. 14 You are to keep this commandment, unblemished, blamelessly, until the Advent of our Master Jesus Anointed, 15 which [God] will disclose in His own appointed times – the King of kings and Master of masters, the Blessed and Sole Sovereign, 16 who alone holds immortality, housing unapproachable light, whom no man has seen nor is capable of seeing, to whom be honor and age-enduring dominion, Amen! In Jesus’ parable of the thief, ignorance of the timeframe in which one needs to watch and be ready is portrayed as being extremely dangerous and potentially disastrous. Yet notice that Jesus then gave this critical command: “Therefore, (as a result of the implications of this parable) you also become ready, because you do not know which hour the Son of Man is coming.” Jesus commanded His followers to “become ready” because of the potential hazard illustrated by this parable. Jesus did not say “be ready” as most translations have it as though a continuous state of readiness must exist throughout Christian history and throughout the lives of all Christians regardless of how many of the specific prophesied events have already occurred or are yet to occur. The Greek words are “γίνεσθε ἕτοιμοι,” (become ready). The verb literally means, “to cause to be, generate, to become, come into being.”[15] It does not refer to continuous static state of readiness but rather achieving something one does not currently possess. Jesus commanded His followers to achieve a state of readiness which those present at the time completely lacked due to their incomplete knowledge. He meant that His followers in the end times must not be like this hypothetical man (who did not know the timeframe in which the thief was coming; therefore, he did not watch; therefore, he suffered great loss). To “become ready” in this context means to learn or discover the timeframe of the tribulation events so that you know when to watch for His arrival. Yet such is not possible until after what Daniel prophesied, what Paul stated in the above passage occurs, until God Himself chooses to disclose the Advent of His Son to His people, those who are not among the “transgressors” but who are “wise” and thus will “understand.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkin Posted July 12, 2022 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 76 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/16/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Deborah_ said: Not so. The Greek verb for 'know' here is oido, which doesn't follow the normal tense pattern. What appears to be the perfect tense is actually the present tense, and the translation is absolutely correct. But Jesus' point was, it is impossible to know in advance when the thief is coming. The Greek word above translated “has learned” is οἶδεν. The New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance defines this word in this passage as: #3609a “to have seen or perceived, hence to know.”[12] It refers to knowledge that has been learned or discovered from observation, experience, instruction, or disclosure. It does not refer to merely a static state of knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deborah_ Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 790 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 878 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/07/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2022 On 7/12/2022 at 9:34 AM, Linkin said: The Greek word above translated “has learned” is οἶδεν. The New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance defines this word in this passage as: #3609a “to have seen or perceived, hence to know.”[12] It refers to knowledge that has been learned or discovered from observation, experience, instruction, or disclosure. It does not refer to merely a static state of knowing. But how does one "learn" when a thief is going to come? To introduce the idea of getting a chance to learn in advance (which never happens in practice) destroys the whole sense of the passage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linkin Posted October 18, 2022 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 76 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/16/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 18, 2022 The Bible does tell us when Jesus returns and when the Tribulation begins. God always warns in advance. God warned Adam he would die in the ''Day'' before eating from the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam lived to 937 years and so died within the ''1000 year day'' God was referring to. Psalm 90:4 The 6 Days of creation are the template of God's plan. Man is under the curse for 6 days and just as God rested on the 7th day we will rest on the 7th Millennia when Jesus returns to reign for 1000 years after which when all evil is destroyed/annihilated eternity begins. Circumcision was given on the 8th day. It is symbolic, and represents the removal of the curse by removing a piece of flesh from the body. In the 8th Millennia [the beginning of unmeasured time] we will be free from the curse. See Hebrews 4. The link below is a free translation of the Greek text https://www.4windsfellowships.net/LGV/LGV_Hebrews.pdf [Read the commentary in the footnotes which explain the Sabbath Rest in Chapter 4 in more detail]. God warned Noah 120 years before the flood. 2 Peter 3:5 For they are willingly oblivious to this: that the skies continued from antiquity, and the land out from water43 and by water having been upheld44 by the announcement45 of God, 6 through which [announcement] the existing order was destroyed. 7 And the present skies and land, having been set aside by the same announcement, 46 are reserved for fire until the Day of Justice and the destruction of ungodly men.47 8 Yet, do not miss this one thing: that one day with the Master is as a thousand years,48 and a thousand years as one day. https://www.4windsfellowships.net/LGV/LGV_2Peter.pdf [Read the commentary on the footnotes for 2 Pet. 3:5-8]. God through the prophet Jeremiah warned Israel for 40 years that the Exile would last 70 Years. Jeremiah 25. He also took some into captivity beforehand and saved them Jeremiah 24 ''The good figs''. There are so many other events where God warned in advance. Jesus also warned Jerusalem and the Temple would be destroyed 40 years before its destruction through the following examples. 1- The sign of Jonah [Matt. 12:38-42, Luke 11:29-32]. https://www.4windsfellowships.net/articles/Chronology/jonah.pdf 2-Luke 19:41-44 3-The Rich Man and Lazarus [Luke 16:19-31] https://www.4windsfellowships.net/bbi_03.html [Lesson 10a & 10b]. Notes for The Rich Man & Lazarus https://www.4windsfellowships.net/bbi_notes/03/10.pdf The Second Exile of Israel will last until 2029. It will end on Rosh Hashanah exactly like the First Exile. Leviticus 26:17 I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; [This refers to the First Exile which lasted 70 years]. Lev. 26:18“‘If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. This warning was repeated in verses 21,24, & 28. 70 X 7 = 490 + 490 + 490 + 490 = 1960 years in total. The destruction of Jerusalem commenced in 70 AD. Add 1960 years onto 70AD and we arrive at 2030. However the Jewish Calendar is offset from the Gregorian Calendar by a few months. So the year is actually 2029 in September. [Rosh Hashanah]. When the Exile ends the last Week [7 Years] of Daniel's 70 Week Prophecy begin. Jesus returns on a Jubilee Year [Isaiah 61]. 120 Jubilees X 50 Years = 6000 Years since creation. 1 Jubilee is 50 Years. Leviticus 25:11 The fiftieth year shall be a Jubilee for you. Jesus' return is on Yom Kippur 2036 Revelation 22:16 I, Jesus, sent My messenger to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the Root and the Descendant of David, the bright and morning star.508 https://www.4windsfellowships.net/LGV/LGV_Revelation.pdf 508 Balaam prophesied of a “Star” rising who is the Messiah (Num. 24:16-19). Peter stated that the “morning star” would “arise” on the Day of Christ’s return (2 Pet. 1:19). Here Jesus referred to Himself as the “bright and morning star,” which is actually the planet Venus when it appears early in the morning before sunrise. “The sign of the Son of man in the sky” which occurs while the sun and moon are darkened (Matt. 24:30) very well may involve the planet Venus rising in conjunction with Regulus (King) in the constellation Leo (Lion). This conjunction at dawn (viewed from Jerusalem)will occur on Yom Kippur 2036, and will appear as the King star (Regulus) crowning Venus, the morning star. If this is indeed “the sign of the Son of Man in the sky” that Jesus referred to, it will be something to behold against the blackened sky. 2 Peter 1:19 And we have the prophetic word verified22 to which you do well in heeding (like a lamp appearing in a dark place until the Day23 breaks and the morning star24 arises)20 knowing this first in your hearts:25 that all prophecy of Scripture does not generate its own explanation. 22 Peter and John, the two living witnesses of this event, confirmed the prophetic Scriptures through their eyewitness testimony to the preview Jesus gave them of the coming Kingdom. 23 “The Day” refers to day of Jesus’ return (1 Pet. 1:16; 2 Pet. 3:8,10). 24 The planet Venus was widely known as the “morning star.” According to Rev. 22:16, Jesus is “the Root and Offspring of David, the bright and Morning Star.” A literal interpretation may indicate that (Venus) will arise on the Day of Jesus’ return. “The sign of the Son of man in the sky” (Matt. 24:30) immediately precedes Jesus coming, while the sun is dark and the moon is red. This very well may involve the planet Venus in conjunction with the brightest star Regulus (King) in the constellation Leo (Lion). See Rev. 22:16. 25 Most translations have the prepositional phrase “in your hearts” modifying the clause “the morning star arises” which would necessarily make arising of the morning star merely metaphorical. However, the Greek grammar does not support or require that understanding. A more literal reading places the prepositional phrase “in your hearts” as beginning the next sentence, and makes perfect sense since Scripture refers to knowledge being in the heart. (cf. Psalm 37:31; Psalm 64:6; Psalm 119:11; Prov. 2:2; Prov. 7:3; Prov. 12:23; Prov. 14:10; Prov. 18:15; Prov. 22:17; Prov. 23:12; Eccl. 7:22). https://www.4windsfellowships.net/LGV/LGV_2Peter.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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