Daniel 9:26, 27 explained through New Test verses? YES? or no

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

Do you suggest Satan and his angels are currently in heaven?

The battle between Michael and Satan is future?

 Yes, I believe they are.  I believe Satans 'influence' roams freely but as for HIM IN PERSON, I believe he is our accuser and will be until he is cast out of heaven.  

WHAT do we know about humans and angels?  If they had already been cast to the earth in person, then WE WOULD HAVE GIANTS.   That is how we CAN BE SURE there haven't been any since that last influx.  

Also in the description Jesus gives us we are told what the end days will be like and one difference is  that it is like the days of Noah.  ANGELS.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Also written is 

2Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


And we know it is a specific amount of time by 

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.


 

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

John 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.


And there will be 10 day trials, and they rule with him ONE HOUR, etc.  

Those are the reasons I do not believe he is here now.  WHY do you believe he is?  Is it that I beheld Satan fall from the sky?  If so then He wouldn't have said, He goes because he comes, right?  Any way, thoughts?  

 

 

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Your beliefs have similarity in teachings found in the JW's and 7th Day Adventist, are you a member of either?

I have never been of any 'denomination' unless you count going to St Mary's till I was 6 maybe?  All I really remember is Jesus was the Son of God who died for me and STAND SIT KNEEL quit talking quit playing pay attention.    I know nothing of what any others believe.  OHH, AND I went to a friends church a couple times and I remember learning a song I really liked that is basically the words to the beginning of John I,  have never gone to school so I don't know any of the words everyone uses.  I have never watched any of the 'movies' of the end times though I have watch the old movies like the 10 commandments and Ben Hur .   I have never read books that men have written EXCEPT Greens Interlinear, Strong's Concordance, Smiths Dictionary,  some parts of books on Biblical Mathematics, Numbers, and a really good book cover to cover called One mans journey or way or day  about the beginnings of Israel.  Other than that a bunch of Bibles.  BUT I HAVE a ton of books on my shelf from my mother that probably cover everything.  We have done a lot of talking about the Bible, she taught me a lot, though we don't agree about all things.  
Does that help somehow?  Does it make what I say more or less truth? acceptable? not?  

So what do you consider yourself?  What is your back ground?  

Edited June 11, 2022 by DeighAnn

[truth7t7]

25 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 Yes, I believe they are.  I believe Satans 'influence' roams freely but as for HIM IN PERSON, I believe he is our accuser and will be until he is cast out of heaven.  

WHAT do we know about humans and angels?  If they had already been cast to the earth in person, then WE WOULD HAVE GIANTS.   That is how we CAN BE SURE there haven't been any since that last influx.  

Also in the description Jesus gives us we are told what the end days will be like and one difference is  that it is like the days of Noah.  ANGELS.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Also written is 

2Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

2Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


And we know it is a specific amount of time by 

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.


 

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

John 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.


And there will be 10 day trials, and they rule with him ONE HOUR, etc.  

Those are the reasons I do not believe he is here now.  WHY do you believe he is?  Is it that I beheld Satan fall from the sky?  If so then He wouldn't have said, He goes because he comes, right?  Any way, thoughts?  

 

 

I Disagree

Scripture clearly teaches Satan was cast unto the earth, waiting to devour Jesus Christ at his birth, this took place with King Herod seeking Jesus to kill him "Long Ago", Revelation 12:3-4 below is a recap of events in history

Satan was upon the earth at Jobs temptation, and also during the temptation of Jesus 40 days/nights in the wilderness

Satan isn't Omnipresent

Revelation 12:3-4KJV

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Job 1:7KJV

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Edited June 11, 2022 by truth7t7

[DeighAnn]

26 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

I Disagree

Scripture clearly teaches Satan was cast unto the earth, waiting to devour Jesus Christ at his birth, this took place with King Herod seeking Jesus to kill him "Long Ago", Revelation 12:3-4 below is a recap of events in history

Satan was upon the earth at Jobs temptation, and also during the temptation of Jesus 40 days/nights in the wilderness

Satan isn't Omnipresent

Revelation 12:3-4KJV

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Job 1:7KJV

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

 So WHERE IS HE?  Where are the angels?  How long does their hour last?  What are the 10 kingdoms they are ruling over?  Where is the image?  


So yes, Satan used Herod to kill all the children.  Where was he?  Yes, he possessed Judas, but where was he?  

Just as we have the HOLY SPIRIT doing His thing Satan has EVIL SPIRIT doing his thing.  

But Satan is not here, IF HE WERE WE WOULD KNOW IT. I am not understanding how you can take something and not see beyond the words as to the truth of it.  DO YOU REALLY think if Satan was here on earth he wouldn't be at the very least ruling some country?  It's not like he is going to be able to HIDE HIS BEAUTY is it?  Or is he and his angels holded up somewhere waiting until God say 'GO GET 'EM'

I THINK rather than me guessing how that works here in this PHYSICAL WORLD RIGHT NOW, since I don't believe it and you do,  you tell me how it's going where he's been how old he is and how is it no one has noticed we have a bunch of beings here on earth 1000 s of years old.  

 

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

 So WHERE IS HE?  Where are the angels?  How long does their hour last?  What are the 10 kingdoms they are ruling over?  Where is the image?  


So yes, Satan used Herod to kill all the children.  Where was he?  Yes, he possessed Judas, but where was he?  

Just as we have the HOLY SPIRIT doing His thing Satan has EVIL SPIRIT doing his thing.  

But Satan is not here, IF HE WERE WE WOULD KNOW IT. I am not understanding how you can take something and not see beyond the words as to the truth of it.  DO YOU REALLY think if Satan was here on earth he wouldn't be at the very least ruling some country?  It's not like he is going to be able to HIDE HIS BEAUTY is it?  Or is he and his angels holded up somewhere waiting until God say 'GO GET 'EM'

I THINK rather than me guessing how that works here in this PHYSICAL WORLD RIGHT NOW, since I don't believe it and you do,  you tell me how it's going where he's been how old he is and how is it no one has noticed we have a bunch of beings here on earth 1000 s of years old.  

 

Scripture clearly teaches where Satan is, before your eyes in Job 1:7 below, God asked, and Satan answered, no guesswork "The Earth" 

Job 1:7KJV

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Peter also taught Satan walks about "The Earth" seeking to devour

1 Peter 5:8KJV

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Edited June 11, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

Deleted

Edited June 11, 2022 by truth7t7

[AdHoc]

22 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Since the book of Daniel isn't even going to be able to be under stood till the time of the end and back in 71AD there were another 2000 years to go, I am not following why what anyone back then thought matters to us today.  THEY couldn't understand anything about what he wrote.  They may not have know that but WE CERTAINLY DO.  Hopefully you can, at least see,  WHY I DON'T CARE about what happened.  I go by what is written, and until ISRAEL became a nation again, none of what MAN did or thought should have any bearing.  UNLESS OF COURSE someone has some DOCTRINE that requires them to take mans history to tell us what GOD MEANS.  Hopefully that isn't what you are saying here. 

I understand your objections. If you've never considered these views, you will have no way of seeing my view. I'll just answer this point.

Solomon built a Temple. By the time Daniel wrote, that "sanctuary" was destroyed and Judah in captivity. Since Daniel wrote in the future tense, it would be clear to the reader that another "sanctuary" would have to be built and this Temple would also be destroyed by a certain "people". Between Daniel's prophecy and 70 AD, only one Temple was built - that of Zerubbabel.  And this Temple was destroyed by the Romans. The reader would quite logically say; "Ah -ha! Daniel wrote of a future Temple that would be destroyed, and now we see it before our eyes. And the People who did the destroying were Romans, SO ... that future Prince that Daniel talks of will be a Roman.

Any student of scripture living between 70 AD and today will have noted that the only sanctuary destroyed in connection with "Daniel's People" is that of 70 AD. And the People who destroyed it were Romans. Therefore the Prince spoken of must be a Roman.

I fully support you not caring what happens. Daniel is written to the Gentiles (Chapters 2 - 7) and then to "Daniel's People". The Church is not included in the prophecy except obliquely in Daniel 2:44. But as a man in God's purpose, that is, "Let THEM have dominion ..." (Gen.1:26-28), I am very interested who and when God's few will actually take dominion. Daniel 9:26-27 gives so much vital information that anybody who aspires to be a king of a city in Christ's Kingdom (Lk.19:17-19) cannot help but investigate.

I am aware that the book is shut till the end, but also realize two crucial things about the end. (i) According to the context of Chapter 12, the "end" corresponds with Matthew 24 and the Abomination of Desolation. The "end" is not Christ suddenly appearing from the clouds, but some years before, and (ii) there is a PROMISE in verse 10. The wise shall understand! I study these words and perhaps God will honor that and give me wisdom. It would seem that He always honors men and women who love His Word and want to understand it. I can't say if He has given me special wisdom, but I do so love His Word.

In closing, your objections to the resurrection seem to me to be utterly refuted by the very last verse of Daniel. Daniel has just been told to shut the book till the end. Then God tells Daniel about his (Daniel's) end. Daniel did not deserve to be uprooted from "his Lot" - his inheritance of the Good Land. And so God tells him that there will be a period of rest for Daniel m "till the end BE", and then he will "stand in his Lot". So, far from going to heaven, Daniel will rest after death and then, as verse 2 says, rise out of the dust of the earth and stand in his "lot" IN THE LAND (Nu.26:55).

[DeighAnn]

10 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Scripture clearly teaches where Satan is, before your eyes in Job 1:7 below, God asked, and Satan answered, no guesswork "The Earth" 

Job 1:7KJV

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Peter also taught Satan walks about "The Earth" seeking to devour

1 Peter 5:8KJV

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Is he invisible?  If he can't be everywhere and he stands behind God as our accuser night and day, then he would have to be omnipresent to accomplish that and what you claim.  

[DeighAnn]

10 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Therefore the Prince spoken of must be a Roman.

That is a conclusion on your part.  Pure and simple.  Satan isn't found in one kingdom he is found in many.  His followers have been since the beginning. If he has any 'people' it would be those who would fall under verses like 

John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

or the synagogue of Satan.  Those aren't 'conclusions', those are written

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Was this a temple the Jews just set up on their own?  

The 2nd Temple. The call it Herod's Temple. Don't know why.

 

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Here is what I never see anyone take into consideration and I don't know why they don't.

The Lev 26 prophecy was brought forth in Daniel.  ALL of that WOULD HAVE taken place IF THE KINGDOM WOULD have come into being.  BUT the Kingdom and King rejected, Jesus prophecy of the temple destroyed, would revert us back to the times of the Lev 26 prophecy UNLESS there is something written telling us that 'in a hundred years' another temple would be built etc.   SHY of something written the rest becomes MANS HISTORY and not GODS STORY so I PERSONALLY can't/don't/won't take things that men do on their own and count them as prophecy fulfilled.  Does that make sense to you?   BECAUSE if we were allowed 'SET' times ourselves, then it wouldn't really be about what is written.  

I think I see what you're alluding to. How do know God is not directing it all and it just looks like 'men do things on their own'? 

I don't think God is directing every moment of everyone's lives but when it comes to prophecy God brings it to pass.

So your objection to Dan 11:29-31 is, "It's just history not prophecy fulfilled."?

So where was it supposed to be fulfilled? Or When? And by whom? 

What about when Daniel tells us the Greeks are going to defeat the Persians and then 4 great ones from Greece will rule the Empire? 

Do you suppose Alexander did that 'on his own'? Was there supposed to be a Divine intervention of a chorus of angels and fire and brimstone? 

And what '100 years' are you talking about?

 

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

When Jesus mentions the AOD it is in the CONTEXT of the end times which FOLLOW the beginning of sorrows.  WERE there wars and rumors of wars that took place in those 100 years?  Were there nations coming upon nations?  Famine, pestilence, earthquakes, signs in the sky, fallen angels, Satan performing lying signs and wonders BECAUSE IF NOT, it isn't GODS TRUTH, is it?  

What '100 years'? 

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

It reminds me of those who say because of the cloven tongues on Pentecost JOELS prophecy was fulfilled.  Doesn't matter none of the other things were, that was good enough for them.   BUT because I believe Gods Word is perfect, it's all or nothing.  Unless there is something written that changes that.  

I agree. It's a misconception. Peter doesn't say, "This is prophecy fulfilled..." He says, "No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:"

People hear in their minds, "Peter said Joel was fulfilled at Pentecost."; but it's just not the case.

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

So I understand how people want to use history I just think when doing so it can be very seductive to a fix Gods words to mans events. 

What would you call 'man's events'?  What prophecy was ever fulfilled that didn't involve mankind? Divine prophecy is top down, higher to lower. Jesus wasn't nailed to the cross by angels. 

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Maybe that is why I don't read history.  I know that once the kingdom was rejected it was back to the Lev 26 curse that had to take place and that there wasn't going to be 100  or 500 or even only 1900 of the last 2000 years in which the 'whosoever' woulds would be coming to faith and anything that stops that process that doesn't also end the age, can't be truth, IN MY OPINION.   But if you can work out all of Gods word with that belief then who is to say I am right and you are wrong?  Not me, that's for sure.  

Back to Daniel 8, that was fulfilled in history. Greece did defeat the Persians and then 4 of the most powerful generals emerged from the chaos to rule what Alexander had conquered. That happened just as spoken by Gabriel to Daniel. 

It's stunning faith building proof of God's words come to pass. Why would one not be interested? We literally live in the past when it comes to scripture as it was written some 2000 years ago, by men. Divinely inspired men, but the actions of man recorded the words and deeds. You don't reject the events by man of writing, recording, compiling, and publishing. Do you?