A Mis - Understood Topic: Timing of the Rapture

[believeinHim]

[WilliamL]

On 6/28/2022 at 8:47 AM, AdHoc said:

Evidence .. yes, but you reached no conclusion. Be careful though to put those verses into their context because Jesus did not go to Hades to preach to the dead. The text reads 

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are (now) dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

The sense is that they heard the gospel when alive ... and are NOW dead, so the end of the sentence is "But LIVE according to God." They could not LIVE according to God as dead men.

Classic case of "adding to the Word" one's own belief. There is no "now" to be found here, neither in the scripture nor implied. Purely your presumption, in order to support your doctrine.

[Montana Marv]

On 6/30/2022 at 10:48 AM, truth7t7 said:

Israel is currently at peace with Egypt, a highway currently exist from Egypt to Syria

They do not worship together. Egypt is not his people, and Assyria is not his handiwork as yet.  There is no altar to the Lord in Egypt.  Neither worship the Lord God Almighty.  All future.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[truth7t7]

On 6/28/2022 at 6:52 AM, Montana Marv said:

2 separate events.  Rapture first. 2nd Coming is after the 70th week. Not anywhere near each other. No correlation between the two. This is where Post Trib fails. Invention by some man in the past. Prolonged by Gentry and others like him. Those who tie the two together are in error.

In Christ 

Montana Marv 

We Disagree, I Have Clearly Presented Scripture Proving A Post Trib "Catching Up" that takes place at the "Second Coming" The End

You have been clearly shown Ezekiel chapters 40-46 is the 2nd Zerubabbel temple built in 536BC, where animal sacrifice for sin is seen instructed by God

You have been clearly shown that Ezekiel chapters 47-48 is the (Eternal Kingdom) in the New Heaven & Earth where the river and tree of life are present

You have been clearly shown below that Isaiah chapter 19 is "Historical" and not future as claimed, there won't be future animal sacrifice and blood oblation accepted by God

Jesus Is The Lord

Edited July 2, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

16 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

They do not worship together. Egypt is not his people, and Assyria is not his handiwork as yet.  There is no altar to the Lord in Egypt.  Neither worship the Lord God Almighty.  All future.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Isaiah 19 below is a "Historical" event in history, not a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth as you claim

Verse 21 below alone disproves your claim of a future event, the Egyptians perform sacrifice and oblation to the Lord, this event is Pre-Cross of Calvary and the shed blood of Jesus Christ, "it's that simple" 

"No" there isn't going to be future animal sacrifice and blood oblation blessed and accepted by God as many claim, in some  future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man, through the spirit of antichrist in blasphemy to the shed blood upon Calvary

Jesus Is The Lord

Isaiah 19:19-21KJV

19 In that day shall there be an altar to the Lord in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the Lord.

20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the Lord because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.

21 And the Lord shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the Lord in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the Lord, and perform it.

Edited July 2, 2022 by truth7t7

[AdHoc]

On 6/30/2022 at 5:22 PM, truth7t7 said:

We Disagree, scripture clearly teaches below,the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ takes place "Immediately After The Tribulation" simple, clear, easy to understand

(The Second Coming)

Matthew 24:29-30KJV

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

We're not in disagreement about Matthew. I was quoting and commenting on the grammar of Mark. Normally you would compare apples with apples.

[AdHoc]

On 6/30/2022 at 5:28 PM, truth7t7 said:

Scripture "Clearly Teaches" This Earth Will Be Incenerated At The Lord's Return, Simple, Clear, Easy To Understand

 

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

 

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

 

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

 

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

Revelation 21:1-5KJV

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

Matthew 24:29-30KJV

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

 

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

 

Malachi 3:2KJV

2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

 

Psalm 46:6KJV

6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

 

Psalm 50:3KJV

3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

 

Psalm 97:5KJV

5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

 

Isaiah 66:15KJV

15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

 

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

Nahum 1:5-6KJV

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

 

Revelation 20:9KJV

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Again you are
1. Selective
2. Pit scripture against scripture

I know it is too much to expect but could you comment and reconcile your scriptures with Psalm 102:25–26 ...

25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. 26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed

And then Hebrews 1:10–12

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

.... which give the detail of the purging - NOT incineration. And then you might like to reconcile the following scripture which say that God made the earth to REMAIN

Psalm 78:69; And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.

Psalm 104:5; Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

Psalm 119:90; Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth.

1st Chronicles 16:30; Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Psalm 93:1; The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Psalm 96:10; Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.

[truth7t7]

12 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Again you are
1. Selective
2. Pit scripture against scripture

I know it is too much to expect but could you comment and reconcile your scriptures with Psalm 102:25–26 ...

25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. 26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed

And then Hebrews 1:10–12

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

.... which give the detail of the purging - NOT incineration. And then you might like to reconcile the following scripture which say that God made the earth to REMAIN

Psalm 78:69; And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.

Psalm 104:5; Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

Psalm 119:90; Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth.

1st Chronicles 16:30; Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Psalm 93:1; The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Psalm 96:10; Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.

The earth will abide forever, it's called a "New Earth" not Mars, Venus, The Moon, but "Earth"

Revelation 21:1KJV

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

[AdHoc]

On 7/1/2022 at 9:56 PM, WilliamL said:

Classic case of "adding to the Word" one's own belief. There is no "now" to be found here, neither in the scripture nor implied. Purely your presumption, in order to support your doctrine.

I'll wait for you to answer fully. You did not show how a dead man can LIVE for God. This is doubly born by the whole surrounding context. The context, before and after, sets forth what manner of LIVING! How shall dead men do this?

And here is something more to contend with.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them (Re 14:13)

If Christ has preeminence in ALL things, how shall other men rest while he works, and how shall his works not follow Him. And Revelation 6:11 tells the dead to "REST YET" implying that they had been doing this up to then.

Finally, on the note of adding to scripture, could you show where it is said that Jesus preached to the dead. Don't quote 1st Peter 3:18–20 as you will compound the matter ...

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

- because the Holy Spirit is the subject. "quickened by the Spirit, by which (SPIRIT)"
- because the SOULS of men are In Hades - not Spirits
- because The "prison" for spirits is Tartaroo - not Hades (2nd Pet.2:4)
- because the SPIRITS that were (THEN at Noah's time) preached to are angels, or, as Genesis 6 and Job 1, 2 and 38 call them "sons of God"

 

[AdHoc]

21 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

The earth will abide forever, it's called a "New Earth" not Mars, Venus, The Moon, but "Earth"

Revelation 21:1KJV

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Yes. And if you did a word study on the word "NEW" you would find out that it means "MADE PRISTINE" - NOT "CREATED".