Do Christians Still Have A Sinful Nature?

[Fiosh]

Rukkus,

It sounds like a very "carefree" Christianity with absolutely no responsibility.

Peace,

Fiosh

[Rukkus]

Fiosh said . . .

Rukkus,

It sounds like a very "carefree" Christianity with absolutely no responsibility.

Peace,

Fiosh

Oh it is. And it's great too. Nothing like living in what Christ did for you. It's just like Hebrews 3 and 4 talk about. Believing, and then entering into rest, and ceasing from your own works.

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. . . .

(Heb 4:3)

For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

(Heb 4:10)

[Guest shiloh357]

Rom 4:4-8 says that by simply believing on Jesus makes you righteous, and righteousness is defined as your iniquities forgiven (verse 7) and then sin no longer imputed to you (verse 8). So, if God is no longer imputing sins (in Greek that simply means not held against you, or considered, or taken into account) to us, why do we think that we have to confess them in order to be? If you're already forgiven, and sins no longer imputed, how is God going to forgive you if He stopped holding them against you because of your faith in Jesus?

Romans 4:4-8 does not say that faith makes you righteous. It says in v. 6 that God imputes righteousness to us. This is also reiterated in Romans 4:22-24. We are not MADE righteous when put faith in Christ. We are DECLARED righteous. There is a big difference. We are not infused with righteuosness, but just as Abraham was declared righteous by faith, so are we. Justification is a legal declaration, only. It is nothing more. We are declared righteous and will not receive the fullness of it until we receive our new bodies.

What Roman 4:8 says is blessed is the man to whom God does not impute SIN. He did not say SINS (the things we do,) but SIN (the condition we are in before salvation). To claim that we no longer need to confess our sins, is nonsense. It shows that you don't know what confession of sin is for.

We do not cofess sin in order to be right with God. Confession of sin is not for God, but for the sake of our conscience. It is our conscience that needs to be cleansed of unrighteousness when we sin. Confession of sin is for our benefit, not God's. God is not holding our sins against us, but that does not remove the need for confession of sin to the Lord.

[Rukkus]

Shiloh said . . .

Romans 4:4-8 does not say that faith makes you righteous. It says in v. 6 that God imputes righteousness to us. This is also reiterated in Romans 4:22-24. We are not MADE righteous when put faith in Christ. We are DECLARED righteous. There is a big difference. We are not infused with righteuosness, but just as Abraham was declared righteous by faith, so are we. Justification is a legal declaration, only. It is nothing more.

Well what was John talking about when he said this . . .

1Jn:3:7: Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Because here he says that someone who acts righteous, is as righteous as God Himself. Is God's righteousness only legal?

And what about Romans 5? Paul said that the same way sin was passed upon us by Adam, so now righteousness is passed upon us . . .

19: For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Here Paul says in the same way we were made sinners by Adam, we are made righteous by Christ. So if our righteousness is only a legal standing, and nothing else . . . That means no one is actually a sinner? Because the same way we were made sinners, we are now made righteous.

And what about 1Jn 1:9? If we are cleansed of all unrighteousness . . . What would that make us?

Yes, you're right that Romans 4 talks about righteousness being imputed. But then there are other scriptures that say plain and simply that we are righteous. Not that it was imputed to us, but that we simply are righteous.

Here's some . . .

1Cor:6:11: And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

2Cor:5:21: For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

2Cor:6:14: Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Eph:4:24: And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Phil:3:9: And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

We are declared righteous and will not receive the fullness of it until we receive our new bodies.

What scripture are you referring to? And if we are declared righteous . . . I thought God can't lie? Are we righteous, or not? If God declares us righteous, is He lying?

What Roman 4:8 says is blessed is the man to whom God does not impute SIN. He did not say SINS (the things we do,) but SIN (the condition we are in before salvation).

You're defining your own terms here (in parenthesis of your statement). You need to show me scripture that shows a difference between "sin" and "sins" besides that one is plural and the other singular.

To claim that we no longer need to confess our sins, is nonsense. It shows that you don't know what confession of sin is for.

This is a statement you need to address biblically. I can't do anything with it at this point.

Edited September 22, 2005 by Rukkus

[Fiosh]

Fiosh said . . .

Rukkus,

It sounds like a very "carefree" Christianity with absolutely no responsibility.

Peace,

Fiosh

Oh it is. And it's great too. Nothing like living in what Christ did for you. It's just like Hebrews 3 and 4 talk about. Believing, and then entering into rest, and ceasing from your own works.

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. . . .

(Heb 4:3)

For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

(Heb 4:10)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, if that works for you, bless you brother.

I prefer to try to live my life after the example given by my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Peace,

Fiosh

[Rukkus]

Fiosh

Well, if that works for you, bless you brother.

I prefer to try to live my life after the example given by my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Peace,

Fiosh

well, since it's not the subject, I won't get into it. But I really think you'd be blessed by clicking this link and reading our tract "Faith and Works"

Edited September 23, 2005 by Rukkus

[Rukkus]

Anymore responses? If not we can call this a wrap.

[Guest Thomas I believe]

Anymore responses? If not we can call this a wrap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds and looks like this one has gone as far as it can go.... But we will see

[Fiosh]

Fiosh

Well, if that works for you, bless you brother.

I prefer to try to live my life after the example given by my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Peace,

Fiosh

well, since it's not the subject, I won't get into it. But I really think you'd be blessed by clicking this link and reading our tract "Faith and Works"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mornin' Rukkus,

I skimmed the tract; I'll read it more carefully tonite, but I must leave soon.

Generally speaking, I agree with most of what it says.

Yes! My greatest joy is to do the work of Christ, in the Holy Spirt.

Yes! I am fully aware that it is not I that work, but the Holy Spirit working thru me.

Yes! My strength comes from the Lord, whose "strength is made perfect in my weakness.

Yes! At every Mass I ascend to the throne of God and praise Him with the angels and saints.

Still, all but one of the Apostles was martyred for their faith. Still, Paul struggled against the flesh. Still, Christians throughout the world are persecuted. Still believers go thru periods of doubt.

Still Satan is the prince of the world, and we battle against him---with the power that is in us. ( Ephesians 6)

But not for long.

We walk the path in the power of a Most High God, but it is not a carefree path.

In His Love,

Fiosh

[Arthur Durnan]

Yea, it's done for now. Stick a fork in it. The last time I checked, Holy Writ outlined two distinct natures for believers in Christ Jesus. Anyways, I'm leaving for STARBUCKS to get a venti decaf nonfat extra-hot no foam with whip three-pump vanilla latte. Never enjoyed one yet? Not since the fall of the Second Temple has there been such a debacle as that!

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

http://www.arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com