DeighAnn Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.61 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 4 hours ago, Jayne said: Thanks to our heavenly Father that the Law was 100% fulfilled in Jesus Christ. That means that it is over. Jesus said, himself, that this is what he came to do. Fulfill it. He wasn't abolishing, but fulfilling it. Some people were saying that he came to destroy Moses - abolishing the law. That wasn't true he explained. Didn't He come to fulfill all the prophecies written of Him IN THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS. I am not saying Jesus didn't follow the law perfectly, so I guess my question is 'how does one 'fulfill' a law? I understand following it but fulfill? The law CAN'T be over because every thing GOD does is done through laws. If we think about the 'laws' and when and why they were given it helps us to understand what was meant. For 400 years the people had been slaves. They didn't know how to set up worship God, run a government nor police their people. They had no idea about priests and their duties. They had no idea about how or what to sacrifice. They had no idea how to run a country. They were like little kids. SO the LAWS were given to do EVERYTHING. Food laws so they ate right. Laws for everything so they had STRUCTURE and it was being done GODS WAY. With the temple being destroyed and their banishment from their lands and nation, those laws were no longer followed because they were no longer needed. Can't run a country without one... can't sacrifice in a temple without one... But the 10 commandments will never be abolished and they aren't something Christ could fulfill only follow. Had you ever heard of 'fulfilling a law' before? That's like fulfilling the color blue don't you think? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.61 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 3 hours ago, Jayne said: Hi, Charlie. Yes, the law has been fulfilled in us [who are saved and live by the Spirit]. The Bible says so in Romans 8:3. It says, "...And so he, [the Father], condemned sin in the flesh [the body of Christ on the cross], in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." So, the question is obviously begged, what ARE the commandments of Christ to be obeyed as evidence of our love for him? There are three. Two from Matthew 22:36-40 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets." And the third - John 13:34 - "Yet Jesus also said, “I give you a new commandment: love one another. Just as I have loved you, you must also love one another” So - love God with all you have and are [that implies moral behavior and holy behavior] love others in the same manner that you esteem yourself love others in the same way that Christ loves These three will ensure that you conduct is what God wants. Ever notice the first one follows or parallels?? the first 5 commandments and the 2nd one follows the last 5? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 861 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2022 1 minute ago, DeighAnn said: Ever notice the first one follows or parallels?? the first 5 commandments and the 2nd one follows the last 5? Jane, also remember, the first 4 commandments speak directly to our relationship with God... I really do not think the Cross eliminated or removed those commands... Charlie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LearningToLetGo Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 717 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 660 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/21/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2022 "Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in[a] him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness." (Romans 4:4-5 ESV) By obeying the law we attempt to partake in an agreement whereby God will impute his righteousness upon us if we can conform to his regulation. The problem is there is no way a human can compel God to action. Obeying the law may be correct behavior but it still won't force God to save us. God's salvation is a free gift. He gives his grace to us not because we deserve it (not because we have earned it via our action) but because we don't. That's why it's a gift. That's why it's free. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.61 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 57 minutes ago, LearningToLetGo said: "Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in[a] him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness." (Romans 4:4-5 ESV) By obeying the law we attempt to partake in an agreement whereby God will impute his righteousness upon us if we can conform to his regulation. The problem is there is no way a human can compel God to action. Obeying the law may be correct behavior but it still won't force God to save us. God's salvation is a free gift. He gives his grace to us not because we deserve it (not because we have earned it via our action) but because we don't. That's why it's a gift. That's why it's free. You know what is weird to me? No, you don't. So I am going to tell you. They couldn't do the law perfectly because the flesh was weak. So why is it, if it were applicable to us today, (which most of it isn't because we don't live in Israel, we are not a nation, we don't have a temple, we don't sacrifice animals, we don't do blood rituals at all, we don't need priests to go talk to God for us etc. WE have the Lamb, the High Priest and the gift of Salvation) having the HOLY SPIRIT with us, could we not easily do what was so hard to do without? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.61 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 Anyone know exactly WHAT laws people today, or even back then, would find or do find hard to follow? Jesus made it SOOO easy for us it's crazy. All that time carrying sin around that you can't get rid of till you find a perfect sacrifice, go to the temple, slit it's throat, have it offered, confess to a priest, have the priest talk to God for you and then be washed clean as you could be but then can't really forget cause of the once a year thing... But is it so hard to put God first and foremost, and treat others right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,871 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,765 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2022 11 hours ago, DeighAnn said: What was wrong with being under the law? Why weren't we just given the Holy Spirit to help us follow the law perfectly? Besides the rituals (blood sacrifice), temple and priests being all wrapped up in Christ, what else changed? In Jesus Christ we have an EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS. And this everlasting righteousness it was made available to all the people of the world. (Jesus Christ died for the sins of everyone who ever lived) This EVERLASTING righteousness is imputed upon anyone who has believe in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of his sins... Yes every believer is in his own individual righteousness, and at the same time he is in the EVERLASTING righteousness of Jesus Christ... When he believes he is adopted into Jesus Christ family, and he is also in Jesus Christ EVERLASTING righteousness. This is why Jesus Christ is our peace with the Heavenly Father. In Jesus Christ our Lord we have the Heavenly Father, we are the children of the Heavenly Father. We know that because we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of the Heavenly Father...we are his children because we believe in Jesus the Christ of God...the Messiah. Jesus Christ is our righteousness...we have peace with God because we are under the blood of Jesus Christ and are always in his righteousness, even though we may be in trouble with our individual righteousness... And this is because we continue to be under the righteous blood of Jesus Christ even when our individual righteousness comes into question... And this is also because Jesus Christ continuous to be righteous and will always be righteous and this is because he is the Lord now, and the Father does not tell him anymore what to do. Since the moment Jesus Christ died the Father does not tell Jesus Christ what to do, so there is no any chance and will never be any chance or a possibility for Jesus Christ to disobey the Father... And because The Father gave everything to Jesus Christ, all authority everywhere and he also gave him everything he had all his theotis...all his power and all his wisdom and he let Jesus be in charge of everything...Jesus is in charge...there is not any possibility for a rift between Jesus and the Heavenly Father, there will be always peace... That's why we are going to be the children of the Heavenly Father for ever more without an end. Now the time has come to emphasize about something that is not clear in the mind, or rather is not easily understood... What does Jesus Christ has to do with the righteousness of the Law... Jesus Christ was above the law.... The Law was not given to sanctified Jesus...it is not only that Jesus was the one who in his former estate gave the Law to the Israelites...for their Sanctification, that he was above the Judgment of the Law...and who is going to Judge Jesus who was he who was the Lord God Almighty of Israel in his former estate...we see that Jesus was the other party to the Sinai Covenant in his former estate as the Lord God Almighty... It is because Jesus was the Son of God, being sanctified out side the Law at the time of his conception he was sanctified and a lot more he was not from the Inheritance of Abraham in the Spirit...Jesus was in the Life of God and outside of Adam because his Life was not from the seed of Adam and from the seed of Abraham.. A woman (Mary) gave birth to a man who was outside the seed of Adam (the seed of the woman) and at the same time Mary son Jesus was out side Abraham because he was in the Life and Abraham was not...Abraham had the need of the Life. Jesus did not need the Circumcision, this is was done be a accepted by the culture and the culture was in obedience to the Law... He has to go through the rituals of the culture to be accepted by the culture as one of them as a member of their culture.. Jesus righteousness was not depending on obedience to the Law, Jesus did not live with that fear, and never had that fear, because God never asked him for that, never asked him to be subject to the Law to go after the Justification of the Law, because Jesus was Justified outside the Law. Jesus was born Holy and Just...he did not need Sanctification...he needed to remain in obedience to the Heavenly Father... Jesus remained just with his obedience to the Heavenly Father...he had to do what the Heavenly Father was asking from him to do.. That's why we say that we are in the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ. Because Jesus Christ was in the righteousness of God, he did what The Heavenly Father asked him to do... THE RIGHTEOUSNES OF THE LAW DOES NOT COME INTO PLAY AT ALL. When the Father asked Jesus to heal that man in the Synagogue on the Sabbath day... No one knew that the Heavenly Father was asking Jesus to heal the man on the Sabbath. But please follow very careful what Jesus said, because this was the first time the Father was asking Jesus to heal someone on the Sabbath day... (I need to finish this though, please bare with me, because this is a hidden treasure) (I should post the scripture here because we need to follow Jesus) I should save this before I loose it, because I am posting from an I phone this is the only way to post it and come back and edit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.61 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 7 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: (Jesus Christ died for the sins of everyone who ever lived) Side note, note Is that truer to the truth to say Jesus 'paid the penalty of death' for all the sins of the world, and not so much 'died' for everyone? because it is only those who repent of their sins His death pays the penalty for as those who don't repent they pay their own. I think this distinction is important especially in the DIFFERENCE between saved and not saved and set to show what the differences in death and dying are between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.61 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: Since the moment Jesus Christ died the Father does not tell Jesus Christ what to do, so there is no any chance and will never be any chance or a possibility for Jesus Christ to disobey the Father... Sorry to go off subject twice, but do you think Jesus ever thought God had forsaken Him on the cross? I don't understand why it was predicted He would say it, even though I understand why He did. Just hoping for another direction from the one I currently have. 8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: Jesus righteousness was not depending on obedience to the Law, Jesus did not live with that fear, and never had that fear, because God never asked him for that, never asked him to be subject to the Law to go after the Justification of the Law, because Jesus was Justified outside the Law. Jesus was born Holy and Just...he did not need Sanctification...he needed to remain in obedience to the Heavenly Father... Being obedient to the Father is overrides being obedient to law which is how one 'comes to faith' while under the law, like Abraham Isaac and Jacob. The laws are perfect for what they are and what they accomplish but they are 'guidelines' that are to TRAIN us to walk holy but they are not end all be alls WHEN you have 'come to' the place of loving God and having faith in Him through LOVE and not just obedience. I hope you can read between the lines because I know what I am thinking and feeling but can't seem to get the words right. I have always struggled to put into perspective how those who were 'under the law' were but weren't. Abraham proved his love and faith in and to God by going way above and beyond anything written in the law, by TRUSTING that whatever God was asking of him was the RIGHT way to go, no matter how wrong it may have felt to him at the time and doing things like this made him 'under grace' such as we are today even in the time of under the law. Correct? or not so much correct? 8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: A woman (Mary) gave birth to a man who was outside the seed of Adam (the seed of the woman) and at the same time Mary son Jesus was out side Abraham because he was in the Life and Abraham was not...Abraham had the need of the Life. I understand He was born a life giving spirit as opposed to just a living soul, but outside the seed of Adam, wouldn't that take away His 'humanity'? I am not following here. 8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: No one knew that the Heavenly Father was asking Jesus to heal the man on the Sabbath. But please follow very careful what Jesus said, because this was the first time the Father was asking Jesus to heal someone on the Sabbath day... (I need to finish this though, please bare with me, because this is a hidden treasure) (I should post the scripture here because we need to follow Jesus) I should save this before I loose it, because I am posting from an I phone this is the only way to post it and come back and edit it. Funny, I never once thought of Jesus breaking the law even when others questioned I just figured I had a lack of understanding as to WHY the law was. Looking forward to the rest of your post. Please don't let my side questions distract you. Thank you for the perspective again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,871 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,765 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2022 1 hour ago, DeighAnn said: Funny, I never once thought of Jesus breaking the law even when others questioned I just figured I had a lack of understanding as to WHY the law was. Looking forward to the rest of your post. Please don't let my side questions distract you. Thank you for the perspective again.... You create a good conversation and your inquiries are with substance...if you excuse me I need to fill in in what I was posting earlier... The theme is that Jesus was born within the Law of Moses and he lived in a culture who were Judging one another with both obedience and disobedience to the Law... The Father asked him to be obedient to the Law and their religious Calendar till the time the Father asked him to heal someone on the Sabbath day...the Father putting Jesus in a position to stand in Judgment to the Law...this is it the people witness Jesus putting himself under the judgment of the Law, Jesus disobeyed the Sabbath. There is not forgiveness for this disobedience, and the punishment for that is death...the iniquity of disobedience of the Sabbath rest upon the people....if the people do not do what the Law required them to do to punish him for his sin their Lord God will require it from them and the will be punished for his sin... That time Jesus became like the sheep with the sins on him, someone expelled from the congregation like the scapegoat, he had to stopped taking part in the celebrations of their religious Calendar...it was in the state of being cut off from the community and from God and without any hope for reconciliation...and not only him but also his children born to him not only after his disobedience but even before...including his wife... Like the scapegoat if he goes away and stays away no one should kill him but if he stays and continues to participate in the things of the Law his iniquity was upon the congregation till they put him to death... The Father put Jesus under the Judgment of the Law...and the congregation had to do what the Law required them to do, putting him to death, if not his iniquity rest upon the congregation and the Lord will send the plague upon them... The Father put Jesus in that situation, to obey him and remained in obedience to him, would mean to disobeyed the Law and be under the Judgment of the Law....it was to die, that the congregation will put him to death because the Father asked him to remain and continue to participate in the celebration of the Law... This is how God loved the world by putting Jesus in that situation...so eventually he will die on the Cross as a sinner, under the Judgment of the Law... To make matters even worse for Jesus the Father test the people and asked Jesus to heal again on the Sabbath, and the leaders were still hesitating because some of them believed in him, the Father asked him to forgive the sins of those who were in a similar Judgment under the Law as he was...and for that reason were sick...the Father asked Jesus to forgive the sins of those who were condemned by the Law, because no forgiveness was available for them in the Law...that sealed the fate of Jesus the leaders had to put him to death, they were waiting for God to punish him, but as Jesus was not punished by God, they took it that God was testing them and was asking them to be the ones to put him to death. Jesus offend their religious Calendar two years in a row, that it was enough for them to take the Law in their hands, and put him to death them selves....in the testimony of two witnesses they could put someone to death... For two years in a row it was witness that Jesus took part in the celebration of the Law after he healed on the Sabbath....that's enough to put him to death themselves...they felt compelled to do it if not God will punish them. Jesus knowing that he will died also for blasphemy against God, and for sins that there was no forgiveness under the Law as the disobedience to the Sabbath he said: All sins will be forgiven in his name, even the blasphemy against God and himself...sins not forgiven under the Law...Jesus said that knowing that he will die for the forgiveness of all sins... So everyone can be included in his righteousness...those who blasphemy the Holy Spirit are also included in his forgiveness but they cannot be included in the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit... As Peter said to Simon the sorcerer who had believe in Jesus Christ, because you have offend the Holy Spirit you have no Inheritance in the Holy Spirit...that it did not effect his Salvation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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