Stoning as a means of execution

[Trust & Obey]

I'm doing some research on the internet and have come across some very disturbing footage of a stoning conducted in Iran. On the video you can see that a man has been put in a potato sack type of bag and tied so that he/she cannot get out. Then, a mob proceeds to stone this individual.

We all read of stoning in the Old Testament and just carry on... not thinking too much about it. But, after seeing this footage I am disturbed. How does this fit into the love of God? I am pro-capital punishment. I believe that capital punishment should be available and reserved for terrible offenses. I believe it serves as a deterrent to crime. Does the method of capital punishment matter at all? I mean, is there a responsibility to carry out the sentence with mercy?

Beheadings, although they look grotesque, are quick and virtually painless. Hanging, although not immediate death.. is rather quick and doesn't seem as torturous as a stoning. The electric chair is certainly a very cruel method.

So, my question... does the method of execution matter? Would it be okay for the government to start throwing people into a furnace and burn them alive? I know that has been practiced at times throughout history? What about "the rack" made famous on Braveheart?

I'm hesitant to post the link for the stoning as the footage is quite disturbing. I know there are young people on this website and I don't think it is appropriate for their eyes. If someone wants the link they can PM me. It is not "graphic" at all in the sense of blood or anything. You simply see them throwing rocks at a sack that is moving (because there is a person inside suffering).

Any thoughts? Did God condone stoning? Or did He simply recognize that it was the method of execution at the time similar to God's recognition, not endorsement, of slavery as a cultural reality?

[Joy in the Journey]

I'm doing some research on the internet and have come across some very disturbing footage of a stoning conducted in Iran. On the video you can see that a man has been put in a potato sack type of bag and tied so that he/she cannot get out. Then, a mob proceeds to stone this individual.

We all read of stoning in the Old Testament and just carry on... not thinking too much about it. But, after seeing this footage I am disturbed. How does this fit into the love of God? I am pro-capital punishment. I believe that capital punishment should be available and reserved for terrible offenses. I believe it serves as a deterrent to crime. Does the method of capital punishment matter at all? I mean, is there a responsibility to carry out the sentence with mercy?

Beheadings, although they look grotesque, are quick and virtually painless. Hanging, although not immediate death.. is rather quick and doesn't seem as torturous as a stoning. The electric chair is certainly a very cruel method.

So, my question... does the method of execution matter? Would it be okay for the government to start throwing people into a furnace and burn them alive? I know that has been practiced at times throughout history? What about "the rack" made famous on Braveheart?

I'm hesitant to post the link for the stoning as the footage is quite disturbing. I know there are young people on this website and I don't think it is appropriate for their eyes. If someone wants the link they can PM me. It is not "graphic" at all in the sense of blood or anything. You simply see them throwing rocks at a sack that is moving (because there is a person inside suffering).

Any thoughts? Did God condone stoning? Or did He simply recognize that it was the method of execution at the time similar to God's recognition, not endorsement, of slavery as a cultural reality?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good question T & O. I guess that would beg the question of crucifixion as well ? I'd have to say, there probably was no worse/more painful way to die than that.

I look forward to some of the responses you'll get

God bless,

Tim

[Kabowd]

Just hearing you describe it is disturbing enough, thank you for not posting the link.

I've been raised by someone who punishes criminals for a living. My entire life has been influenced by the balance between justice and punishment...and mercy and grace. My opinions are probably tainted just because of my background, but I really struggle with the fact that there are SO many rights established to protect criminals. I understand that there are checks and balances in place to prevent abuse, but at the same time...many of these laws and boundaries make it extremely difficult to bring a person to justice. There is no reason to fear that we'll be stoning anyone in America anytime soon. It took 15 years just to execute John Wayne Gacy (who molested and murdered countless men and boys and was clearly guilty). Our society already has a hard time following through, which is why the death penalty does not serve as much of a deterrant..it's rarely enforced. When it is, it's most often after years of appeals, controversy and protest.

But anyway, when I hear stories of horrible child abuse cases...or cases like the BTK killer, it definately makes me think that they should suffer for the pain they put their victims through. But at the same time, my brother has often reminded me that it's not our place to be vindictive or torture ppl (as much as we'd like to). Vengeance belongs to the Lord, and thank goodness capital punishment isn't about vengeance. It's about justice. I think when we begin torturing ppl for their crimes we've crossed the line and stepped over into where God's authority alone presides. I believe in capital punishment and I believe it should be enforced. After a person is dead, their soul belongs to God and it's His decision whether or not they should suffer.

On a similar note: what is your opinion of physically or chemically castrating sexual predators? I'm in favor of it. Not as a means of torture, but because it prevents the person from using this means to harm someone again.

[Trust & Obey]

Just hearing you describe it is disturbing enough, thank you for not posting the link.

I've been raised by someone who punishes criminals for a living. My entire life has been influenced by the balance between justice and punishment...and mercy and grace. My opinions are probably tainted just because of my background, but I really struggle with the fact that there are SO many rights established to protect criminals. I understand that there are checks and balances in place to prevent abuse, but at the same time...many of these laws and boundaries make it extremely difficult to bring a person to justice. There is no reason to fear that we'll be stoning anyone in America anytime soon. It took 15 years just to execute John Wayne Gacy (who molested and murdered countless men and boys and was clearly guilty). Our society already has a hard time following through, which is why the death penalty does not serve as much of a deterrant..it's rarely enforced. When it is, it's most often after years of appeals, controversy and protest.

But anyway, when I hear stories of horrible child abuse cases...or cases like the BTK killer, it definately makes me think that they should suffer for the pain they put their victims through. But at the same time, my brother has often reminded me that it's not our place to be vindictive or torture ppl (as much as we'd like to). Vengeance belongs to the Lord, and thank goodness capital punishment isn't about vengeance. It's about justice. I think when we begin torturing ppl for their crimes we've crossed the line and stepped over into where God's authority alone presides. I believe in capital punishment and I believe it should be enforced. After a person is dead, their soul belongs to God and it's His decision whether or not they should suffer.

On a similar note: what is your opinion of physically or chemically castrating sexual predators? I'm in favor of it. Not as a means of torture, but because it prevents the person from using this means to harm someone again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tess, I agree that stoning will not surface in America. I agree that our capital punishment system is not executed swiftly. I also understand the reasons for this. I understand that someone who is sentenced to death should be afforded the opportunity to appeal and prove their innocence. There are times where justice is wrong... innocent people do get wrongly convicted. Fortuntately, DNA is making this less of a reality, but it still happens. Should this fact completely eliminate capital punishment as being an option? I don't think so.

The fact that stoning is happening elsewhere still bothers me. People are people, whether from the US, Europe, Asia, or Africa.

Your point with BTK is an interesting one. Should worse offenders receive worse methods of execution? Or, should we have one method for everyone? The lethal injection is certainly the most human thing I can think of and that is what most states in the US do.

I do believe that stoning is torture. It is a torturous death by all accounts. I do see how stoning could also be a very, very powerful deterrent. But, does stoning, and torture for that matter, line up with the character of God? Do you consider stoning to be "torturous?" I guess one can pray they take a good shot to the head right off the bat and go out rather than take 5-10 minutes of rocks being thrown at you. And, these are big rocks... probably 3-5 pounders.

Regarding chemical castration... I do not think it should be mandatory. I believe that a person should be able to accept that "treatment" as a condition for parole.

I'm a father of 2, soon to be 3, and know all too much about the sexual predator problem. We have a lot of that where I live and quite a few neighbors have rallied together to try and do something about it. I think we are way too lenient on them. Their recidivism rate is alarmingly high. I think that after the 2nd offense they should be locked up for life.

But, then again... the situations of incorrect conviction. I remember reading an article where a family took film into a Wal-Mart to get it developed. On the film were some pictures of a little girl nake and the father kissing her belly button. Now, that is not abnormal to do with an infant. But, they called Child Protective Services... the child was ripped from this family... the father was arrested for making child pornography and molestation. He finally was vidicated when the Attorney General looked at the photos and saw that there was obviously no mal-intent. It was harmless.

Still... sexual predators are a cancer to our society and must be dealt with harshly. I know that.

What do you think about the stoning method of execution? Do you think God approves of it or does He just acknowledge its existence? I'm not trying to bait you or anything. I'm just curious. For a long time I thought that stoning was loving in the way that it prevents crime... that is showing love for society. But, after seeing a live stoning it is apparent that the purpose is to cause severe pain and suffering to the person as they are dying.

[book_wirm]

What do you think about the stoning method of execution? Do you think God approves of it or does He just acknowledge its existence?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

T & O,

Stoning is no doubt a very brutal death but where the scripture speaks of stoning it speaks in plain terms. I don't see that God "acknowledged" stoning. He was giving His people His law...had He wanted beheading (for example) to be the means of execution He would have said so.

I would have to say, then, that not only did God approve of it, he ordered it. If we struggle to understand that in light of "God's Love" then how are we to comprehend Hell? Surely no torment is greater. Perhaps we misunderstand God's love...who it is given to, what it entails. Perhaps we compartmentalize God, forgetting that He is One...ie. being loving in no way deminishes His Righteous Justice and Judgement. I don't know.

Before a slew of people jump on me, though, reminding me that we live in the age of Grace and throw hypothetical/rhetorical questions at me ad infinitum like "So you think we should stone people?"...allow me to say that I tend to be anti-capital punishment. It is plain, however, that in that instance (Israel receiving the Law) God ordered executions by stoning. I must accept that as Just and Right.

Just my two cents.

In Christ,

Eric

[Constant]

I used to beleive that they crime the criminal committed like murder or the "others" is the way they should be punnished. But, that would be torture. I cannot stand torture, watching it or hearing about it makes me SO MAD. As far as the stoning thing, that is just sick. If the person was to be executed, just shoot them in the head. Don't torture the person. Criminals are people too. Just did really bad thing. I think all capitol punnishment with execution should be leathal injection. Frying a person in the chair is nasty, hanging is nasty and definetly stoning is nasty.

[Kabowd]

I brought this up to my brother while getting ready for school. He said something like, "There's no need for us to prolong someone's suffering here [by torturing them]. This is simply usurping a position that rightfully belongs to God. Not only that, but punishment from God is far more sufficient than any punishment a human can bring on another. The best thing to do is turn them over to God, i.e. end their life quickly (I think he meant lethal injection but I didn't ask). God alone has the perspective, wisdom and soveriegnty to determine whether or not a person should suffer. And if He determines it so, He merely allows them to suffer the torture they deserve." (not to mention, it's eternal)

[Trust & Obey]

What do you think about the stoning method of execution? Do you think God approves of it or does He just acknowledge its existence?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

T & O,

Stoning is no doubt a very brutal death but where the scripture speaks of stoning it speaks in plain terms. I don't see that God "acknowledged" stoning. He was giving His people His law...had He wanted beheading (for example) to be the means of execution He would have said so.

I would have to say, then, that not only did God approve of it, he ordered it. If we struggle to understand that in light of "God's Love" then how are we to comprehend Hell? Surely no torment is greater. Perhaps we misunderstand God's love...who it is given to, what it entails. Perhaps we compartmentalize God, forgetting that He is One...ie. being loving in no way deminishes His Righteous Justice and Judgement. I don't know.

Before a slew of people jump on me, though, reminding me that we live in the age of Grace and throw hypothetical/rhetorical questions at me ad infinitum like "So you think we should stone people?"...allow me to say that I tend to be anti-capital punishment. It is plain, however, that in that instance (Israel receiving the Law) God ordered executions by stoning. I must accept that as Just and Right.

Just my two cents.

In Christ,

Eric

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Eric, thanks for your comments. I completely agree with you on the Hell thing. I was thinking about that last night. Stoning is nothing compared to the 2nd death.

I guess this speaks to the ultimate level of God's righteousness and holiness. God is so infinitely holy and righteous that Hell is what it takes to pay the debt for a lifetime of sin. What we find as "not that bad of a life" God sees and utterly deplorable. This is due to the difference between man's perceived righteousness vs. God's. We tend to judge ourselves with ourselves, and the Bible says that is not a wise thing (2 Cor 10:12).

Sometimes when I watch the news and see the "Palestinians" and other Middle Eastern people parading down the street or participating in some type of demonstration they'll be burning flags, saying "down with Israel...death to Israel..." I've seen footage of 7 and 8 year old kids singing songs that say things like "I want to be a martyr and spill Jewish blood" I think to myself, "what a brutish people."

I thought the same thing when I saw that stoning in Iran. What a barbaric people. How uncivilized.

But, then I thought, "wait a minute... God commanded stoning in the Bible."

Maybe it is us in the Western world that are the odd ones. Perhaps we are too soft, too lenient, too cuddly.

Does God want us to be like them?

I have a hard time seeing Christ parade around like they do. As a matter of fact, when given the chance Jesus refused to participate in a stoning. True, the circumstances were that they were trying to entrap Him. But, can anyone envision Jesus stoning someone under any circumstances?

I guess the answer lies in the fact that in Jesus' 1st Coming He came as a Lamb. At His 2nd Coming He'll come as a Lion... and the stones will be flying.

[Trust & Obey]

I used to beleive that they crime the criminal committed like murder or the "others" is the way they should be punnished.  But, that would be torture.  I cannot stand torture, watching it or hearing about it makes me SO MAD.  As far as the stoning thing, that is just sick.  If the person was to be executed, just shoot them in the head.  Don't torture the person.  Criminals are people too.  Just did really bad thing.  I think all capitol punnishment with execution should be leathal injection.  Frying a person in the chair is nasty, hanging is nasty and definetly stoning is nasty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny you mention "shooting in the head." This website had pictures of just that going on in China.

In China they shoot them in the head so that they don't damage the rest of the body. Why? Because they want to harvest thier organs and then traffic in them.

Those pictures were nasty too. One picture showed a teenage girl lying dead on the ground with the top portion of her head, everything above the nose and eye sockets, completely gone.

I agree that lethal injection is the most civilized. That isn't letting them "off easy" either. As Tess said, their soul then belongs to God.

[refugepsa91]

John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

I know its hard to do a comparison with this in the United States, as here we don't execute people for adultry, but correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't the middle eastern countries and others still execute for this?

I think Jesus was not questioning stoning as a punisment in itself, but he was pointing out that the "reason" for it was wrong. Did that make sense?

Love and Blessings,

Angel