Mr. M Posted January 24, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.33 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 6.96 Reputation: 1,798 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Share Posted January 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, Selah7 said: The way I understand it, anyone who comes to the Lord will be saved. But some have been predestined (chosen) to salvation before the foundation of the world to carry out some special purpose in God’s plan. An example would be Jeremiah and Paul. Others have been given free will to choose Jesus Christ upon hearing the Gospel. We’re all His sheep. You should not separate predestination from foreknowledge. The Lord knew me long before I got desperate for Him. His plan was to predestine me to His work based on that foreknowledge, that my heart had room for His compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted January 24, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.53 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2023 Just now, Mr. M said: You should not separate predestination from foreknowledge. The Lord knew me long before I got desperate for Him. His plan was to predestine me to His work based on that foreknowledge, that my heart had room for His compassion. Just a clarification: foreknew, when applied to people, in the Bible, means "chose beforehand", not "knew what they would do". From BDAG - the foremost Koine Greek lexicon: Foreknow (proginosko) BDAG: προγινώσκω 1. to know beforehand or in advance, have foreknowledge (of) τί someth. Hs 7:5. Abs., in advance 2 Pt 3:17. 2. choose beforehand τινά someone Ro 8:29., 11:2, Pass. of Christ προεγνωσμένος πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου 1 Pt 1:20.—Know from time past προγινώσκοντές με ἄνωθεν Ac 26:5. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah7 Posted January 24, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,610 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 3,182 Days Won: 11 Joined: 05/25/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Mr. M said: You should not separate predestination from foreknowledge. The Lord knew me long before I got desperate for Him. His plan was to predestine me to His work based on that foreknowledge, that my heart had room for His compassion. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. - Romans 8:28-33 (KJV) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted January 24, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.33 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 6.96 Reputation: 1,798 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, David1701 said: Enoob, why have you changed the subject to redemption? It's a very good subject, but it's not what we were discussing. Not to mention reconciliation, which speaks of a renewed relationship, and a covenant one at that. Many who are locked into saved by grace through faith without works seem to lack a knowledge of covenant obligations. We belong to Him now, and are His servants. Those found with Him are called, and chosen AND FAITHFUL> Rev 17:14 Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Too often, too many stop at verse 9. As to redemption, this is referring in particular to our body, (or members, as Paul uses), the outward manifestation of our inner salvation, becoming a vessel of honor. Romans 8:23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let’s cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Until that day: Luke 21:28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near. 2 Corinthians 5: 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. M Posted January 24, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 743 Topics Per Day: 1.33 Content Count: 3,893 Content Per Day: 6.96 Reputation: 1,798 Days Won: 12 Joined: 10/28/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1956 Share Posted January 24, 2023 16 minutes ago, David1701 said: Just a clarification: foreknew, when applied to people, in the Bible, means "chose beforehand", not "knew what they would do". From BDAG - the foremost Koine Greek lexicon: Foreknow (proginosko) BDAG: προγινώσκω 1. to know beforehand or in advance, have foreknowledge (of) τί someth. Hs 7:5. Abs., in advance 2 Pt 3:17. 2. choose beforehand τινά someone Ro 8:29., 11:2, Pass. of Christ προεγνωσμένος πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου 1 Pt 1:20.—Know from time past προγινώσκοντές με ἄνωθεν Ac 26:5. Is there a difference when talking about God? He knew what beforehand? That we would answer the call to repentance, and gave us an assignment. Here is an analogy, I know from foreknowledge that you are the most reliable member of my team of which I am your supervisor. I assign you a task based on that foreknowledge that you are the one I want assigned before you are told. There is a measure of proven character in us that God is aware of, before we have a clue. Jeremiah is not called the weeping prophet for nothing. God foreknew his heart of compassion, even before he was in the womb. God is in no way illogical, random, capricious or Calvinist. I grew up being called a crybaby by my own father. Turns out my heavenly Father hears my weeping, my supplications for others, and has kept every tear in a bottle. Awesome! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted January 24, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,143 Content Per Day: 4.61 Reputation: 27,833 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, David1701 said: The doctrines of grace are the gospel. There is one poster who wants to call these "Calvinism"; but, they are simply what the Bible says about how salvation works. Let's leave Calvin out of it, and study what the Bible says, in context, not merely walls of texts without proper exposition, or out-of context proof texts, as one poster likes to do, which is not Bible study at all. Have no idea why you're quoting me- I was really enjoying reading the Scriptures & then it went waaay off Topic imo ,did what I could to try bringing in some Peace and hopefully help all to see we can talk through anything " nicely"- I'm not interested in partaking here ," the one poster" and accusing people of being false teachers is not part of my walk but God Bless y'all-leave me out of it - Thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted January 24, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.53 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Mr. M said: Not to mention reconciliation, which speaks of a renewed relationship, and a covenant one at that. Many who are locked into saved by grace through faith without works seem to lack a knowledge of covenant obligations. We belong to Him now, and are His servants. Those found with Him are called, and chosen AND FAITHFUL> Rev 17:14 Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Too often, too many stop at verse 9. As to redemption, this is referring in particular to our body, (or members, as Paul uses), the outward manifestation of our inner salvation, becoming a vessel of honor. Romans 8:23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let’s cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Until that day: Luke 21:28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near. 2 Corinthians 5: 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. There is a now-but-not-yet to redemption. We have been redeemed from the slave market of sin already (in our spirit); however, our flesh has not been redeemed yet (that happens at the resurrection). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted January 24, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.53 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Mr. M said: Is there a difference when talking about God? He knew what beforehand? That we would answer the call to repentance, and gave us an assignment. Here is an analogy, I know from foreknowledge that you are the most reliable member of my team of which I am your supervisor. I assign you a task based on that foreknowledge that you are the one I want assigned before you are told. There is a measure of proven character in us that God is aware of, before we have a clue. Jeremiah is not called the weeping prophet for nothing. God foreknew his heart of compassion, even before he was in the womb. God is in no way illogical, random, capricious or Calvinist. I grew up being called a crybaby by my own father. Turns out my heavenly Father hears my weeping, my supplications for others, and has kept every tear in a bottle. Awesome! God's foreknowledge of people is not based on anything within them. It is based on God's will. God chooses to make someone something, which includes giving him the necessary character and abilities. It is like an author choosing what a character in his book will be and do, based, not on advance knowledge of what the character will do (that would be absurd), but upon what the author has decided he will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted January 24, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.53 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2023 51 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: Have no idea why you're quoting me- I was really enjoying reading the Scriptures & then it went waaay off Topic imo ,did what I could to try bringing in some Peace and hopefully help all to see we can talk through anything " nicely"- I'm not interested in partaking here ," the one poster" and accusing people of being false teachers is not part of my walk but God Bless y'all-leave me out of it - Thanks! You have already partaken, and the bias was obvious. Have a look at how Jesus and the apostles dealt with those teaching error. It was stronger than anything in this thread; and it needs to be dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 25, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,332 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,530 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted January 25, 2023 6 hours ago, kwikphilly said: Surely Adam knew he disobeyed God,he felt guilt, shame and yet,odd to me- neither he or Eve ever said " I'm sorry Lord,please forgive me/ us" No,instead they quickly blamed another and seemed to take no responsibility for their actions. For me that has always stood out like a sore thumb - it was the spiritual death that they had a hardened heart( imo) What do you think? Yes exactly... It is the structure of God's Word. He gave His Law to the Elect Israel and naked before the world showing themselves unable to keep it. Then God sent His Son Who did... showing the world if we wanted to be perfect it had to be His perfection not our own. We literally have to look outside of our own selves to find it in Jesus... I believe repentance is that very act. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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