The Father

[JohnD]

The incarnation of God the Word (John 1:1 / John 1:14) is an Old Testament prophetic mystery. 

Once we learn who and what God the Word is, we learn that the Heavenly Father is also an Old Testament prophetic mystery.

One most are unaware of even today.

Because most assume the LORD of the Old Testament is the Heavenly Father.

But the LORD of the Old Testament is rather God the Word (the preincarnate Jesus).

Being eternal, the Heavenly Father was present (obviously).

But he is rarely spoken of in the Bible until the New Testament.

__________________________________________________________________________

1 John 2:13 (AV)
13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

???

If the Father was the LORD of the Old Testament, what distinguishes these Christians from the Jews?

John 16:3 (AV)
3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

Jesus was referring to religious Jews who went to synagogue (where the Old Testament is read and studied).

John 17:25 (AV)
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

It's no wonder people find the simple facts about the Trinity (the triune nature of the one God) so confusing / hard to understand... because they keep misinterpreting who and what each of them are.

The so-called Apostle's Creed begins with the error that God the Father is the Creator of heaven and Earth. The Bible teaches that the preincarnate Jesus is the lone Creator of all things created in the beginning by himself (John 1:3 / Colossians 1:16 / Isaiah 44:24).

Jesus is the Father of creation:

Colossians 1:16 (AV)
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

John 1:3 (AV)
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Luke 3:38 (AV)
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Adam was the son of God the Word. Jesus is the Son of God the Father ← his only creation (John 1:14 / John 3:16 / John 3:18 / 1 John 4:9)

The people who claim all human beings are children of God have it half right.

All human beings are children of God the Word.

Only believers in Jesus Christ are adopted children of his Father the Heavenly Father:

Romans 8:14–15 (AV)
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

John 16:27 (AV)
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

The office of the Heavenly Father is that of ultimate authority (Acts 1:7) sending the Son into the world (John 6:29) and the Holy Spirit (John 14:26) with which he is equal but whose office / mission is greater (John 10:29 / John 14:28) ← greater in authority not better in nature.

Edited August 4, 2022 by JohnD

[JohnD]

An underlying theme, caution, warning if you will...

...is how much confusion are we permitted about who and what God and Christ are?

In a day and age when we have long since had the completed Word of God in our possession

in our native languages and often in multiple translations / versions of our language...

Put another way, in a time when we have no excuse not to know with certainty the authentic genuine

Jesus Christ, God the Father, and the Spirit of God...

will our abysmal ignorance / laziness be excused come judgment day?

Matthew 7:21–23 (AV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

2 Corinthians 11:3–4 (AV)
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Galatians 1:8–9 (AV)
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

________________________________________________________________

There is being convinced with the confirmation of the Holy Spirit interpreted Word of God...

and there's being convinced by gut feelings or taking other people's word for it...

Matthew 16:23 (AV)
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Mark 7:13 (NIV84)
13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

Mark 7:7 (AV)
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Again:

Matthew 7:21–23 (AV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[DPMartin]

It’s not confusing at all, though I do believe what you’re talking about in reference to confusion is intentional.

The first three verses in genesis shows the three, verse one God created, verse two Holy Spirit (Spirit of God, God’s Presence) and three “God said” God spoke in His Presence in His creation. Hence the revelation of God’s Word in His Presence in His creation.

 

One should note that all living is what it is, has presence, and expresses itself in its presence in one fashion or another. Thing is with the Almighty there is Him, His Presence, and His Word are God to anyone or anything that is not God, with God's power. Just as you are you your presence is you and your word is you to anyone not you. One should also understand the God gives His Word just as one with the power to make something so gives their word. God’s Word to man is always a covenant an agreement that God is faithful to keep, therefore giving His Word. Of which also all of creation knows God by and through, His Word.

 

The relationship of Father Son and Holy Spirit is easy but that we fit in that relationship somewhere is amazing. Seeing the foreshadowing via Abraham (the father who offered his beloved son) Isaac the son who was offered and Jacob renamed Israel of which originally had twelve sons and the Lord their God call them in Moses’ day the children of Israel. And we know born-againers are children of God via the Word of God (Jesus) in the Holy Spirit (in the Presence of God).

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by DPMartin

[Selah7]

Let’s look at these scriptures and meditate upon them.  Selah 
 

God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom. And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

- Hebrews 1:1-2,8,10 (NKJV)

A Psalm of David. The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."

- Psalm 110:1 (NKJV)

But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."

- Hebrews 1:8-9 (NKJV)
 

God calls His Son “Lord” and even “God” because Jesus is God.

[JohnD]

9 hours ago, DPMartin said:

It’s not confusing at all, though I do believe what you’re talking about in reference to confusion is intentional.

The first three verses in genesis shows the three, verse one God created, verse two Holy Spirit (Spirit of God, God’s Presence) and three “God said” God spoke in His Presence in His creation. Hence the revelation of God’s Word in His Presence in His creation.

 

One should note that all living is what it is, has presence, and expresses itself in its presence in one fashion or another. Thing is with the Almighty there is Him, His Presence, and His Word are God to anyone or anything that is not God, with God's power. Just as you are you your presence is you and your word is you to anyone not you. One should also understand the God gives His Word just as one with the power to make something so gives their word. God’s Word to man is always a covenant an agreement that God is faithful to keep, therefore giving His Word. Of which also all of creation knows God by and through, His Word.

 

The relationship of Father Son and Holy Spirit is easy but that we fit in that relationship somewhere is amazing. Seeing the foreshadowing via Abraham (the father who offered his beloved son) Isaac the son who was offered and Jacob renamed Israel of which originally had twelve sons and the Lord their God call them in Moses’ day the children of Israel. And we know born-againers are children of God via the Word of God (Jesus) in the Holy Spirit (in the Presence of God).

 

I'm sorry, I'm missing your point somehow.

[JohnD]

1 hour ago, Selah7 said:

Let’s look at these scriptures and meditate upon them.  Selah 
 

God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom. And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

- Hebrews 1:1-2,8,10 (NKJV)

A Psalm of David. The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."

- Psalm 110:1 (NKJV)

But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."

- Hebrews 1:8-9 (NKJV)
 

God calls His Son “Lord” and even “God” because Jesus is God.

So what is your point here with reference to the topic?

There is a Father and a Son and they are both God... as is the Holy Spirit... 

And?

[Selah7]

22 minutes ago, JohnD said:

So what is your point here with reference to the topic?

There is a Father and a Son and they are both God... as is the Holy Spirit... 

And?

Hey John…  You sounded a little bit confused, so I wanted to point out that the Trinity has existed from the very beginning from Genesis to Revelation.     Selah 

Edited August 5, 2022 by Selah7

[other one]

Keep in mind that the words translated God/god in Hebrew and Greek is speaking of any number of entities that excist in the heavenly realm.     And Hebrew has no capitol letters and the Greek New Testaments are written in all caps so the original texts make no difference in God and god except for the context of the sentence.

[JohnD]

1 hour ago, Selah7 said:

Hey John…  You sounded a little bit confused, so I wanted to point out that the Trinity has existed from the very beginning from Genesis to Revelation.     Selah 

Not confused at all. In fact I point out in many places in Worthy Christian Forums that in the beginning all three are present in the biblical record (John 1:1-2 / 1 John 1:1-2 / Genesis 1:1-2). 

Just pointing out that Jesus (preincarnate i.e. God the Word) is YHVH / the LORD of the Old Testament (who many mistake for God the Father / the Heavenly Father).

Just so you don't feel anyone is confused here... God the Father was obviously there all along (being eternal and all)... but Jesus is the one in the Triune (Trinity) Godhead who dealt most with humanity.

He is also the lone Creator of all things created in the beginning (John 1:3 / Colossians 1:16 / ISAIAH 44:24).

I hope that clears up things for you.

[JohnD]

38 minutes ago, other one said:

Keep in mind that the words translated God/god in Hebrew and Greek is speaking of any number of entities that excist in the heavenly realm.     And Hebrew has no capitol letters and the Greek New Testaments are written in all caps so the original texts make no difference in God and god except for the context of the sentence.

There are higher beings than human beings (typically referred to as angels, cherubs, seraphs, and teraphs) that were: 

• believed to be gods before the real God straightened out humanity on the subject
• worshiped as gods     "        "     "     "             "             "        "          "   "         "

And yes the context often indicates which is being referred to (and being straightened out by God's revelation on the subject).

2 Corinthians 4:4 for example refers to Satan being the god of this world (which does not legitimize his deity but rather his being worshiped falsely as a god or ruler). Once we learn that there is only one true God (Isaiah 43:10-11).