Genesis 2:11 The Garden of Eden's Location

[Retrobyter]

12 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

I think scripture doesn't mention the garden trees as seed bearing. In Gen 1 does mention earth's vegetation and trees etc as seed bearing. But the garden was different than earth's vegetation built after and its trees unique not needing seeds to reproduce. It's Botney like nothing else on earth a special place.

Shalom, BeyondET.

Genesis 2:8-9 (KJV)

8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

I don't see that God made a difference between the trees outside the garden and those within the garden. He just planted them all together in that smaller area so that Adam and Chavah would have a more ready supply of food than having to go all around the world to find various trees. Just because Genesis 2:8 doesn't mention that they were seed-bearing, He did however say "EVERY tree!" Besides, how do trees proliferate without seeds or nuts or fruit with seeds inside the fruit? It's not mentioned here that most trees have female parts - flower pistils, stigmata, styles, and ovaries - and male parts  - flower stamen, filaments and pollen-producing anthers. It's also not mentioned how the fertilized germs of the flower grow within the pistils and the fruit grows from the pistils as food and protection for the germs within the seeds being produced. But ALL of that was found in EVERY tree that God created! Some trees even formed specialized seed coats that were thick and hard shells, producing what we call "nuts." Other forms of fruit also specialized into protective structures called "cones," such as "pinecones," to further protect the seeds and to release them in a timely way. The pinecones of jack pines, for instance, can survive through forest fires, and replant their seeds when conditions were favorable again. Botany IS a fascinating field, but it STRENGTHENS my belief in a 6-day Creation, because of all the complicated, intricate, symbiotic details which could NOT have developed by mere chance!

[JohnR7]

9 hours ago, BeyondET said:

I think scripture doesn't mention the garden trees as seed bearing. In Gen 1 does mention earth's vegetation and trees etc as seed bearing. But the garden was different than earth's vegetation built after and its trees unique not needing seeds to reproduce. It's Botney like nothing else on earth a special place.

Who can be compared

to your greatness?

3Look at Assyria, a cedar in Lebanon,

with beautiful branches that shaded the forest.

It towered on high;

its top was among the clouds.

4The waters made it grow;

the deep springs made it tall,

directing their streams all around its base

and sending their channels to all the trees of the field.

5Therefore it towered higher

than all the trees of the field.

Its branches multiplied,

and its boughs grew long

as it spread them out

because of the abundant waters.

6All the birds of the air

nested in its branches,

and all the beasts of the field

gave birth beneath its boughs;

all the great nations

lived in its shade.

7It was beautiful in its greatness,

in the length of its limbs,

for its roots extended

to abundant waters.

8The cedars in the garden of God

could not rival it;

the cypressesa could not compare with its branches,

nor the plane treesb match its boughs.

No tree in the garden of God

could compare with its beauty.

9I made it beautiful with its many branches,

the envy of all the trees of Eden,

which were in the garden of God.’

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by JohnR7

[other one]

10 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

Eden was in the Tigris, Euphrates River valley. Babylon is in Iran. They are both on the Arab Continental Plate. 1500 by 1500 by 1500 miles that will become the New Jerusalem. Abraham was the first Hebrew to cross over the great river. Today we read in Revelation the river is beginning to dry up. This is revealing a lot of previously unknown archeology sites. 

Sudan Hussain tried to rebuild Babylon, but he was not able to. The Bible says the city will not be rebuilt. 

Babylon was a popular spot for the Americans to visit when they were in Iran. They are not currently doing any archeology there because it is just too dangerous. Most of what we have done was 100 years ago. 

Not to seem picky, but I think you mean Iraq.

[JohnR7]

2 hours ago, other one said:

Not to seem picky, but I think you mean Iraq.

Yes, Iraq, my brother-in-law was working in Iraq. Russia just used drones in Ukraine that they got from Iran. Difficult to know who the players are if you do not have a program.

[JohnR7]

2 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

the envy of all the trees of Eden,

There had to be an actual physical tree in the Garden of Eden. But clearly this is a metaphor. We see that "all the great nations lived in it's shade". This has to do with partaking of the knowledge of good and evil. 

Joseph Smith and John Calvin believed that God wanted man to disobey him. Which is so contrary to scripture. The entire Bible is about man living in obedience with the commandments of God. 

 

[Retrobyter]

15 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Well imo it doesn't seem plausible God neglecting the garden or abandoned it just because man was gone. I've tried to find the verse that says the garden had the greatest variety of fruit trees and herbs can you post it?. Hard to keep at bay I wouldn't think would be hard for God to do in his garden.

Shalom, BeyondET

I got to thinking and you could see it this way: Man couldn't come to the garden any more; so, the garden came to the man!

Yeah, God could have kept the garden intact, but to what purpose? It's not His way to hoard a valuable. He would share the goodness with the world! He just wouldn't allow the species of the Tree of Life to escape His plan. 

It was a CONTEST of sorts! If you'll notice, God told man not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, but He didn't tell Him anything about the Tree of Life. He only said,

Genesis 2:15-17 (KJV)

15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying,

"Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

So, they were to eat from every tree of the garden, other than the one. And, if they could have obeyed God until they had eaten from every tree, they would have eventually come to eat of the Tree of Life!

When they were expelled from the garden, the reason why is enlightening:

Genesis 3:22-24 (KJV)

22 And the LORD God said,

"Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever ...": 

23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Apparently, the thought was too horrible to continue!

[Retrobyter]

19 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

Who can be compared

to your greatness?

3Look at Assyria, a cedar in Lebanon,

with beautiful branches that shaded the forest.

It towered on high;

its top was among the clouds.

4The waters made it grow;

the deep springs made it tall,

directing their streams all around its base

and sending their channels to all the trees of the field.

5Therefore it towered higher

than all the trees of the field.

Its branches multiplied,

and its boughs grew long

as it spread them out

because of the abundant waters.

6All the birds of the air

nested in its branches,

and all the beasts of the field

gave birth beneath its boughs;

all the great nations

lived in its shade.

7It was beautiful in its greatness,

in the length of its limbs,

for its roots extended

to abundant waters.

8The cedars in the garden of God

could not rival it;

the cypressesa could not compare with its branches,

nor the plane treesb match its boughs.

No tree in the garden of God

could compare with its beauty.

9I made it beautiful with its many branches,

the envy of all the trees of Eden,

which were in the garden of God.’

 

Shalom, JohnR7.

Please remember to include the reference. It makes it easier to find and read in the Hebrew.

You've quoted Ezekiel 31:2b-9, Berean Standard Bible, I presume.

That's fine, but now in context I can tell that you are right. It most certainly IS a metaphor. Verse 3, especially in the Hebrew, confirms that this is a metaphor about the Assyrian, speaking of Nebuchadnezzar, the "Lebanese cedar." The Pharaoh of Egypt is being compared to him.

Ychezk'eel prophesied from 592 B.C. to 571 B.C., and the "Assyrian" would have been Nebuchadnezzar II or his successor, Nabonidus, and the Pharaoh he attacked would have been Apries (Hophra) of Egypt, who lost the kingdom in 570 B.C. to his own general Amasis II (Ahmose II), who murdered him in 567 B.C.

[JohnR7]

6 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

It most certainly IS a metaphor.

Yes that was my whole point. We are not told what the literal tree was. Maybe it was the Fig tree because we see artistic renderings of Adam and Eve covered with Fig Leaves and people talk about Fig leaf religion. 

We know that they used the fiber from fig trees to make clothing. But the clothing was more for show or ceremony. God had to show them how to make clothing from Animal Skins to keep warm. Esp in the colder climate of the Middle east. 

If we do a google search there are a lot of articles about how we should not eat Figs. Of course today we have a lot more to worry about than just figs. Esp figures of speech. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by JohnR7

[JohnR7]

12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Yeah, God could have kept the garden intact, but to what purpose?

We still have all the plants of the Garden. Adam just has to work for his dinner now.

Genesis 3:19

 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."

Man went from a food gather to a food producer. He has to grown all his own food. Because we can not resist eating the forbidden fruit from the Fig tree. 

[Retrobyter]

50 minutes ago, JohnR7 said:

Yes that was my whole point. We are not told what the literal tree was. Maybe it was the Fig tree because we see artistic renderings of Adam and Eve covered with Fig Leaves and people talk about Fig leaf religion. 

We know that they used the fiber from fig trees to make clothing. But the clothing was more for show or ceremony. God had to show them how to make clothing from Animal Skins to keep warm. Esp in the colder climate of the Middle east. 

If we do a google search there are a lot of articles about how we should not eat Figs. Of course today we have a lot more to worry about than just figs. Esp figures of speech. 

Shalom, JohnR7.

RIGHT! And for hundreds of years, the "apple" was blamed, as well! It really doesn't matter, because once Adam disobeyed God in this ONE commandment, the commandment was broken. WHAT was eaten doesn't matter nearly as much as WHY it was eaten or THAT it was eaten at all! Today, whatever that fruit was, it's just another tree from which to eat fruit.

As I said, the NAME of the tree - the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil - is simply an IRONY. If there had never been the "wrong," the "sin" - the introduction of "evil" into the human race, they (and we) would never have known what "evil" was! As soon as they disobeyed God by eating the fruit forbidden to them, they KNEW the difference between "Good" - GOD - and "Evil" - themselves! So, it no longer matters what the fruit was, evil has been introduced into the world, and "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." That is now the inheritance from Adam and Chavah ("Eve") passed on to every person in Adam's race!