Jesus' Sacrificial Death

[TempestTossed]

I have a bone to pick with this central Christian doctrine that Jesus paid the debt for the sins of everyone when he was crucified by the Romans. Maybe it is really just symbolic, or maybe God is powerful enough that He made it all make sense somehow. But, to me, it is sign that the whole religion is just a religion, nothing more. Please let me explain.

According to the Gospels, Jesus died a horrible death. I went to a Christian school where I was given a doctor's study about how torturous this sort of death was. So Jesus went through that, he died, and then his soul went to either heaven or hell, or he just hung out in the grave for three days. Then he came back to life, just as he was before, only with wounds in his hands and side.

Now I can't really see the difference between this and your normal Roman crucifixion followed by a three day sleep. However, this is supposed to be God's ultimate sacrifice. Sure, it may be a great sacrifice. I would feel bad too if I sent my kid to a hyper-abusive daycare center for a day followed by a three-day stint in a hospital bed. But it seems to me that there are greater sacrificies being made by human beings all over the planet. I don't know if you have seen that photo of the bony little African girl scrounging for food in the groung while a vulture waits for her to collapse in a bundle, but that is the sort of life that would count as a much bigger sacrifice in my opinion.

Here is another angle to it: for every human being who doesn't accept this method of payment for their life of sin, they are sent to Hell. I don't know what sort of Hell this is. Maybe there are literal fires, or maybe Hell is just a lonely miserable place, but here is how Jesus describes it in Luke 16:22-24:

...the rich man also died, and was buried;

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Be this metaphorical or literal, this is supposed to go on for an everlasting time, or at least "age-during." Jesus' torment lasted a day. It could have lasted a million years, but it wouldn't really compare to an infinite time.

I have heard some Christians say that the death and torment of God himself counts for more than the death and torment of mere humans. Is this the explanation you take? It seems to be a cop-out more than anything. God seems to be anything convenient for explaining things that are otherwise hard to explain. I have my own explanation.

I think the crucifixion of Jesus was not really intended by either Jesus or God. I suspect that Jesus was a mere mortal who was the leader of his own religious sect. His teachings angered the sanhedrin, and they had him crucified. Such an execution was embarassing to Christians, but they soon adopted a doctrine that Jesus thwarted the executioners and miraculously came back to life, and they even cleverly tied it together with prophecy in Isaiah.

And I think my explanation makes more sense than the doctrine that God made the ultimate sacrifice that lasted three days. I really see no reason that Jesus couldn't have died forever. That would count as a greater sacrifice on par with the sacrifices that happen on Earth every day. Or how about Jesus goes to Hell for eternity, just like everyone who doesn't accept his gift? That would certainly leave me impressed. It would make God look like less of a hypocrite. I was told in church that Jesus came back to life because he conquered death, and at the same time God made some sort of huge sacrifice. But you shouldn't have it both ways. It just doesn't make sense.

Edited September 26, 2005 by TempestTossed

[Guest suzettebooyens]

I pray that God will reveal this to you Himself.

[TempestTossed]

I pray that God will reveal this to you Himself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks. I welcome God to reveal himself to me just as Jesus revealed himself to Thomas after the resurrection.

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

The great sacrice doesn't lie within the torture but that it was GOD'S only SON.Would you let your only child die for millions?The point is that JESUS didnt have to die for you and me but HE chose death because it was HIS FATHER'S will.HE chose to die because of HIS love for fallen man.

[Guest suzettebooyens]

I haven't got any facts on your topic yet, but will concider a major study, there is however one thing that no words can debate, and that is the love and the realness of God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. There's a freedom you will only know in the arms of the Holy Spirit, try inviting Him.

[TempestTossed]

Would you offer your son as a sacrifice to save the life of a murderer?

The great sacrice doesn't lie within the torture but that it was GOD'S only SON.  Would you let your only child die for millions?

Tell you what, if I knew I would get my son back after three days, it wouldn't be all that bad. See you in three days, kid. Don't you see what is wrong with this?

[TempestTossed]

I haven't got any facts on your topic yet, but will concider a major study, there is however one thing that no words can debate, and that is the love and the realness of God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.  There's a freedom you will only know in the arms of the Holy Spirit, try inviting Him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have made a habit out of not commiting myself to any sort of religion or cult or ideology until I am sure that it makes some sort of reasonable sense. Once I commit, it is hard to get out of it, and then I might find myself stuck in some twisted belief system.

[TempestTossed]

WhySoBlind, you are to be commended for honestly addressing what I am saying. Thank you for that. Now you say that three days seems like an eternity to God. I could more easily imagine that three days seems like no time at all for God. I mean, imagine with me that you had eternal life, and you lived eternally into the past. Wouldn't time fly like an arrow? Wouldn't a day seem like a second? But maybe it is different in God's case. Who knows? Like I said, God seems to be made of anything that is convenient in order to explain things that are otherwise hard to explain. Such arguments by appealing to the mysteriousness of God don't really do much for me. If the Bible said something like, "I am the Lord thy God, and I like to starve children for fun," I am sure that Christians could still make God seem like a loving person--at least in their own heads--by redifining love in terms of God or appealing to some mysterious Godly purpose. In this case, we redefine misery and time in terms of God. It doesn't make much more sense than it did before, and I would prefer to stick with explanations that make elegant sense.

[Giaour]

From the beginning of time, the only way to cleanse sin is with blood. Only a sacrifice can rid you of your sins. In the old tetament, animal sacrifices were used to cleanse but over time, man's sins were just too great to be appeased by the blood of animals. So God needed a perfect sacrifice, something whose blood was perfect and pure. The only answer possible was Jesus. A sinless, lamb without blemish could cleanse the world of their sins. So God sent His only begotten Son to die for our sins on the cross. Blood HAD to be spilled for cleansing and Jesus gave up His life for this sacrifice.

[serotta]

I pray that God will reveal this to you Himself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks. I welcome God to reveal himself to me just as Jesus revealed himself to Thomas after the resurrection.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just remember, seeing isn't believing. Believing is seeing.