Master/ slave = employer/employee?

[serotta]

Do verses like Titus 2:9 and 1Peter 2:18 that speak to master/slave relationships apply to employer/employee relationships?

I am faced with a very difficult situation at work and need to understand what God expects of me. In a nutshell, I've been in my current position for 5 years and had been growing increasingly frustrated over the last 2. I decided to look for a different position, and found one and gave my 2 weeks notice. Then that Sunday I heard a very good sermon on loyalty and covenant relationships. I felt convicted to withdraw my resignation, and while my immediate boss was very pleased, his boss ended up saying that they would not allow me to withdraw my resignation. They would however consider rehiring me after terminating my employment, but then I would lose 20% vesting in my retirement and 401K as well as some vacation time.

So along with the doctrinal question above, I guess I would also ask if they are voluntarily ending my employment does that free me from any loyalty that was owed them?

[refugepsa91]

I would say you fulfilled your obligations by submitting a resignation letter, you were being loyal and doing the right thing.

Now it sounds as though your immediate boss is good, but as far as hiring you back from his supervisors, sounds like plain nastiness. I'm sorry but it sounds as though the higher ups are a little (I'm searching for the right word) obnoxious. If you were a good and loyal worker I don't see why they have to "hire" you back and you lose your vesting in.

I would say under those circumstances you are under no obligations to accept their terms. Pray and ask the Lord for guidence. You said you had another job lined up right?

Love and Blessings,

Angel

[Constant]

I agree with the previous post. You gave a notice and you were a good employee to them. Don't let them toss you around and play games with you. Go after bigger and better things

[Trust & Obey]

serotta, the answer is "yes, the master/slave passages would address modern employer/employee situations."

Regarding loyalty... here is what I feel... but, ultimately you must pray over this.

As Christians we should be exemplary employees. We shouldn't be late, we shouldn't be clockwatchers, we should be diligent, trustworthy, hardworking, willing to go above and beyond the normal call of duty to get something done. We should do our best to get along with fellow co-workers and we should always be courteous to people. We must be respectful of those in authority over us regardless of how we feel about them. As a matter of fact... Christians, like God, should be "no respecter of persons." Meaning, we should give our co-workers the same degree of courtesy and respect that we give our boss. Now, that addresses my view of Christian employees.

Regarding loyalty... Loyalty doesn't mean you cannot quit your job or take a better one if it pops up. Loyalty means that, while you are employed by a company, you have their best interests in mind at all times. That is called "fiduciary responsibility."

I'm not sure what the "bad sitatuation" was that you were having, but if you attempted to remedy it to the best of your ability and it is just unbearable then perhaps you need to find a new position where you will be able to work in an environment that isn't so disturbing to your conscience.

Regarding the "let them fire you and then re-hire you thing." I would tell your boss, "look, I'm agreeing to withdraw my resignation. I am not agreeing to quit and then reapply."

It is really hard for me to tell you what you should do. God will do that through His Spirit. He'll speak to your heart and let you know which direction to go.

I know it can be frustrating... knowing the will of God. There are lots of times that I am going through something and I'll hear something that seems to address it, sort of like your loyalty sermon.

But, loyalty doesn't mean you need to retire at this company after 30 years.

The workforce in the US has changed from a generation ago. No longer do employees work for a company for 30 years and then retire with a pension. Rather, Corporations now use employees until they don't want them any longer and then they let them go with no severance pay. That's the real world these days.

I praise God that no matter what happens to me... God is in complete control. That is the awesome thing about being a Christian.

I lost my job about 1 month ago. I was laid off after being with a company for 5 years. It wasn't anything to do with my performance. Rather, my branch was the only one with the position that I was filling and they wanted it gone. They wanted it to be in conformance with the other branches. They didn't offer me a new position because I live 90 miles away and I was a telecommuter. My old boss was even calling around my industry lining up interviews for me.

Well, at first it was discouraging. Then, it took me about an hour to realize that this must be God's way of answering prayer. I have a 3rd baby on the way and was praying for more income to handle the increase in expenses. This was God's way of taking care of it. As it is now, I have my 2nd interview with a new company today that is going to pay much more than my last job. God is so good!

If I were you there would be NO WAY that I would "quit and then reapply" for the same job. They are plain out messing around with you if they insist upon that and I wouldn't put up with that.

Remember, you have a fiduciary responsibility to them. But, they also have a fiduciary responsibility to you. It is a give-take relationship. A healthy work relationship exists when the employee and the employer both have each others interest at heart.

[Kansasdad]

As the Higher-up, I have never felt upset if an employee can find a better opportunity. God has his plan for everyone, who am I to get in his way. However, I do expect them to give the company no more or less than what they had agreed upon, namely, a two-week notice and their best efforts to the end. If this is given I always consider it a privilege to have been able to work with the person. If you have given to the company all that was agreed upon then you have no further obligation to them, you have fulfilled it. Consult with God first and then take the opportunities He gives you.

God Bless,

Kansas Dad

[serotta]

Thank you all for your replies and your encouragement.

Titus 2:9 says "Exhort bondservants to be obedient to their own masters, to be well pleasing in all things, not answering back, 10 not pilfering, but showing all good fidelity, that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things."

My immediate supervisor has always given me outstanding performance reviews. A VP has called my work exemplary. So I think I have kept up my end of the bargain. But my question is what does "showing all good fidelity" really mean? I really felt called by God to withdraw my resignation in order to show fidelity. But now I don't know how to respond to their decision. And yes, I do have a good position already lined up. I started looking because I could see what a sick organization this has become. But now I just don't understand how far my fidelity to my earthly "master" (I am quite certain who my TRUE Master is) is supposed to go? Or since my current master is voluntarily severing my employment, by refusing to allow me to withdraw my resignation (which was only verbal, never formalized in writing), should my allegiance now be to my "new" employer?

[refugepsa91]

Ultimately it is a decision you must make yourself. But I would say you no longer have to be loyal to your employer now. Move on to the new employer and apply your loyalties there. Loyalty and such is a two way street, the Lord wouldn't expect you to be treated unfairly when you gave so much to this company.

You have fufilled your responsibilities they have not. You stood up to the plate and showed true loyalty. They did not.

Shake the dust off and follow through with other opportunities.

Love and Blessings,

Angel

[Kansasdad]

Thank you all for your replies and your encouragement.

Titus 2:9 says "Exhort bondservants to be obedient to their own masters, to be well pleasing in all things, not answering back, 10 not pilfering, but showing all good fidelity, that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things."

My immediate supervisor has always given me outstanding performance reviews. A VP has called my work exemplary. So I think I have kept up my end of the bargain. But my question is what does "showing all good fidelity" really mean? I really felt called by God to withdraw my resignation in order to show fidelity. But now I don't know how to respond to their decision. And yes, I do have a good position already lined up. I started looking because I could see what a sick organization this has become. But now I just don't understand how far my fidelity to my earthly "master" (I am quite certain who my TRUE Master is) is supposed to go? Or since my current master is voluntarily severing my employment, by refusing to allow me to withdraw my resignation (which was only verbal, never formalized in writing), should my allegiance now be to my "new" employer?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

RED FLAG...PUT IT IN WRITING. Prepare a letter stating that on such date you had informed your supervisor of your resignation thus providing a two week notice making your last day of employment effective ____________. You sign it and have your immediate supervisor sign it. Get a COPY.

God Bless,

K.D.

[pretzelperson]

Chances are you are an "at will" employee and are free to leave at any time of your choosing, just like your employement can be terminated at any time for any reason.

Edited September 27, 2005 by pretzelperson

[serotta]

All good points, thank you. I have always only wanted to follow God's will in this, and that is why I tried to withdraw my resignation. But since there is a segment of the executive committee that seems to want me to leave, I think I should do that. I guess God just had some lessons that He wanted to impress upon me before I left. Thanks again for all your help.