Assurance of Salvation? A Study for my friend.

[Mr. M]

On 1/20/2023 at 11:09 AM, FreeGrace said:

Correction is immaterial for unbelievers.  They need to be saved.

Isaiah 26:10 Let grace be shown to the wicked,
Yet he will not learn righteousness;
In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly,
And will not behold the majesty of the Lord.

7 The way of the just is uprightness;
O Most Upright,
You weigh the path of the just.
8 Yes, in the way of Your judgments,
O Lord, we have waited for You;
The desire of our soul is for Your name
And for the remembrance of You.
9 With my soul I have desired You in the night,
Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early;
For when Your judgments are in the earth,
The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

10 Let grace be shown to the wicked,
Yet he will not learn righteousness;
In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly,
And will not behold the majesty of the Lord.
11 Lord, when Your hand is lifted up, they will not see.
But they will see and be ashamed
For their envy of people;
Yes, the fire of Your enemies shall devour them.

12 Lord, You will establish peace for us,
For You have also done all our works in us.

[Mr. M]

1 minute ago, Mr. M said:

Isaiah 26:10 Let grace be shown to the wicked,
Yet he will not learn righteousness;
In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly,
And will not behold the majesty of the Lord.

The immediate problem for my post becomes, can unbelievers be placed under this Word and be defined as wicked? Is a strict orthodox believer in God, but has not seen Yeshua Messiah as the Light of the World, unable to receive correction, or to put another way, can the Holy Spirit convict someone's heart by the written Word (OT), without the preaching of the Gospel? Can a Psalm of David, in which he laments and repents of sin, move someone to do same?

[Mr. M]

4 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

The chastening  referred to in the Scriptures is God Disciplining His Own by the Power of Holy Spirit Indwelling as Rosie posted in the full context -

The context of the Lord's chastening is the very covenant we are under, referred to as "the sure mercies of David" in the KJV.

2 Samuel 7:

12 “When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men. 15 But My mercy shall not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 And your house and your kingdom shall be established forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever.

[FreeGrace]

4 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings

The chastening  referred to in the Scriptures is God Disciplining His Own by the Power of Holy Spirit Indwelling as Rosie posted in the full context -

As a Christian I can go to someone I believe is a member of the Body of Christ ( Church)and offer " correction" yet that person will be completely unreceptive as they are DEAD ,their spirit has not been made ALIVE

This doesn't make sense.  If one "is a member of the Body of Christ", then they ARE alive spiritually.  Eph 2 makes all that clear.  I think you are rather confused.

4 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Jesus Christ Abides in the Born Again Believer,Holy Spirit Indwells,the chastening or Disciple from our Heavenly Father is Seen by the Eyes of the Heart,these Eyes of Understanding Receive the Knowledge Made Known to us by the very Heart & Mind of Christ ,the HEAD of the BODY in which we are members - this is not Condemnation,it is Conciction

Christ in us,us in Him,we ....being Made Alive and in the Unity of our Faith are Convicted by Holy Spirit to the Obedience of Christ Jesus,not by mandate but because we LOVE Him.If there is no Love,this is not a Born Again Believer

With love in Christ, Kwik

At the very least,anyone who has hatred in them should consider this a red flag & repent,it's an indication that something is very very wrong!

Are you aware of the doctrine of "fellowship with the Lord" which John wrote about in his first epistle?  And how to restore fellowship when one sins?  

Also, are you aware of how to (specifically) obey the command in Eph 5:18 to "be filled with the Spirit"?

Thanks.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

 can the Holy Spirit convict someone's heart by the written Word (OT), without the preaching of the Gospel? Can a Psalm of David, in which he laments and repents of sin, move someone to do same?

Absolutely!  Rom 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

The gospel is clearly presented in the Bible.  Many unbelievers have read the Bible and become believers from simply reading and BELIEVING what they read about Jesus Christ and His work on the cross for them.

Ask any Gideon about that.

[Mr. M]

2 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Absolutely!  Rom 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

The gospel is clearly presented in the Bible.  Many unbelievers have read the Bible and become believers from simply reading and BELIEVING what they read about Jesus Christ and His work on the cross for them.

Ask any Gideon about that.

The power of our testimony both the inward transformation and sharing the wonders of what the Lord has done, brings a living salvation message. We are Witnesses!

[kwikphilly]

52 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

This doesn't make sense.  If one "is a member of the Body of Christ", then they ARE alive spiritually.  Eph 2 makes all that clear.  I think you are rather confused.

Are you aware of the doctrine of "fellowship with the Lord" which John wrote about in his first epistle?  And how to restore fellowship when one sins?  

Also, are you aware of how to (specifically) obey the command in Eph 5:18 to "be filled with the Spirit"?

Thanks.

I'm not confused,you need to read my words,not your changing them

Okay,you did not read what I said - I said " If I believe" they are a member of the Body ( and if they are not they will not Receive ).... Now do you see?

I'm not even going to continue because if your not reading exactly what I'm saying then there's " no sense" in proceeding....

Oh & btw,just because a person quotes you does not mean they are in disagreement,lol.  I have never said anything that was contrary to what I quoted from you( but then again I actually read what one writes)

Have a great day!

 

 

 

[FreeGrace]

20 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

I'm not confused,you need to read my words,not your changing them

Okay,you did not read what I said - I said " If I believe" they are a member of the Body ( and if they are not they will not Receive ).... Now do you see?

Sorry for my fast reading.  Mea culpa.

20 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

I'm not even going to continue because if your not reading exactly what I'm saying then there's " no sense" in proceeding....

Oh & btw,just because a person quotes you does not mean they are in disagreement,lol.  I have never said anything that was contrary to what I quoted from you( but then again I actually read what one writes)

Have a great day!

And I do as well read what one writes.   But sometimes I mis-read a point, as you pointed out.  Thanks.

[kwikphilly]

2 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Sorry for my fast reading.  Mea culpa.

And I do as well read what one writes.   But sometimes I mis-read a point, as you pointed out.  Thanks.

Good,I'm glad- no worries,it can happen

Now that we've sorted that out you can see I was merely elaborating on what you actually said- Amen!

And do have a great day!A God Filled Great day !

[Mr. M]

42 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Oh & btw,just because a person quotes you does not mean they are in disagreement,lol. 

That's so funny. I have quoted responses, then added some scriptures (which they neglected to provide, making up for the lack), and they responded, "what's your point, I don't see a contradiction! Lol, like I was trying to prove them wrong, when all I did was prove them right. What should anyone do with an opinion? Back it up with two or three witnesses, please.