Assurance of Salvation? A Study for my friend.

[Omegaman 3.0]

A Bible Study for My Friend - Not a lot of leading, but more of where to look and discover for yourself.

You mentioned the "working out your salvation" verse, sort of sounds like working to earn it, but that is not what it is about.

It starts by talking about Jesus sacrificial death on the cross, and then goes:

9 Therefore God has highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

So God had a "therefore" Just as God examined and then reacted to the worth of his Son’s life of obedience . . . then comes the therefore, for the Christian:

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Notice, then, that our "therefore" is about obedience. It is not about earning salvation, just to be clear. My thought is that he could have said "live out your salvation". In other words, now that you are saved, act like it. In other words, just as God reacted to Jesus actions (therefore since Jesus did stuff, God did stuff). Believers therefore, should also do stuff because Jesus did stuff. He procured our salvation, so a life of dedication and obedience is the proper response from us.

You asked about specific things you felt led to do, if they could be an action that is part of our working out our salvation. Of course, so could a lot of things. You noted (rightly) that it does not show you are saved, and asked  if it shows that Jesus is in your heart. I would have to say, that in might be an evidence, but it is not a proof, and there may not be any proof.

I think a little doubt is healthy, but not so much doubt that it is crippling and makes people want to give up. Overconfidence though is also not healthy. There are a few theological camps with differences of opinion on salvation. Two of these are Calvinists and Arminians (back ground information for something I am about to say). Calvinists tend toward the idea, that God saves people, and once they are saved, they remain saved. Arminians tend toward an idea, that God saves people IF they choose Him, and they remain saved only as long as they continue to follow and obey, otherwise they may lose their salvation.

I am reminded of a story wherein this man was a scheduled speaker and some sort of theology conference. He stepped into an elevator, and so did one of the conference attendees. The attendee asked the speaker: "Dr. So-and-so, are you a Calvinist or an Arminian?" The speaker thought for a moment and replied: "I am a Calvinist . . . who sweats!"

So being confident of your salvation (if your beliefs and actions indicate it) is a good thing, but being certain of it may not be proper, and could be dangerous..

Can we be sure of our salvation? I don't know! People disagree, and I am not an expert. However, there are evidences, and perhaps the lack of evidence should be a concern. I suggest reading the following passages, and see what you can discover in them that should give you pause about your salvation, or confidence in it, answering for yourself which things about these verses apply to you or do not apply to you. All from 1 John. Watch for words and phrases like we, they, us, them, the world, we know.

Chapter 2 3-27

3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

7 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard. 8 At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining. 9 Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. 10 Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling. 11 But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

12 I am writing to you, little children,
because your sins are forgiven for his name’s sake.
13 I am writing to you, fathers,
because you know him who is from the beginning.
I am writing to you, young men,
because you have overcome the evil one.
I write to you, children,
because you know the Father.
14 I write to you, fathers,
because you know him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
because you are strong,
and the word of God abides in you,
and you have overcome the evil one.

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life is not from the Father but is from the world. 17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.

18 Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. 20 But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge. 21 I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he made to us — eternal life.

26 I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.

Then Chapters 2:28-4:6

2:28 And now, little children, abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming. 29 If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.

Chapter 3

1 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

11 For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 12 We should not be like Cain, who was of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brother’s righteous. 13 Do not be surprised, brothers, that the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

16 By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers. 17 But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him? 18 Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

19 By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; 20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

Chapter 4

1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Those passages were written to Christians, and had a lot to do with examining ourselves to see if we are in Christ and poses eternal life. I hope they have helped.

[com7fy8]

On 9/22/2022 at 3:11 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

So God had a "therefore" Just as God examined and then reacted to the worth of his Son’s life of obedience . . . then comes the therefore, for the Christian:

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Notice, then, that our "therefore" is about obedience. It is not about earning salvation, just to be clear.

Here, Paul says the obedience of the Philippians increased, even while Paul was absent. Why did the Philippians' obedience increase? 

Because >

"it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure," he then says (in Philippians 2:13). Their obedience increased because of God in them causing them to become more and more obedient > like he likewise says in 1 Corinthians 3:6 >

"I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase." (1 Corinthians 3:6)

So, if Paul says to work out our salvation, this means how God in us has us working together with Him in our wills. God in us works the willing of what He wants us to do. Then God has us doing it . . . what He means. 

So, if God works in you to be willing to do what He desires, what is needed first? 

change of character

We need how God changes our character, so we are willing, glad, even pleased to do what He wants. We are changed by God to be humble and gentle like Jesus, and all-loving like Jesus and generously forgiving . . . so we are ready to do what Jesus really means that He desires. Jesus is gentle and humble and all-loving, ready with generous forgiveness for any person. God makes us willing to love like this. This is what was increasing in the Philippians, in their obedience. 

So, then, they certainly were not becoming only better puppets!!

Because we are commanded to love like Jesus. And this is the only thing that can happen if God is truly succeeding in us. This is the only effect that His love can have in us . . . because of how God in us effects our character >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

God in His love in us changes our character so that "as He is, so are we in this world." This says we "are" as God is. We do not just "act", but we "are" . . . therefore in how our character has become.

Well, in Philippians 2:14-16 . . . right after Paul says the Philippians have increased in obedience because of God in them > what does Paul say to do? 

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation" (in Philippians 2:14-16). 

So, "in this world", God's love makes us perfect the way His love is perfect (1 John 4:17). And because of God working us to obey, He has us stop our complaining and arguing, and He has us becoming . . . instead . . . "blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation" (in Philippians 2:14-16). So, I see how this means that we become how His love's character is so we are not complaining and abusing each other with our arguing and complaining that are unkind and uncreative and therefore harmful.

God does this "in this world" . . . "in the midst of" this evil world's "crooked and perverse generation".

This is what we work out, now, from the inside out . . . not only working on our outward gestures which we might try to use to impress God and make a show to others. But in order to help one another and reach to lost people, we need good example which is in the sight of God . . . in our character. 

So, in us is our main battle as soldiers of Jesus. The main revolution, then, is needed inside of us - - - so we become gentle and humble the way Jesus in us has us becoming. We can not be good soldiers unless we first become good citizens of how God in His love has us becoming in our character and relating in His love's family caring and sharing way >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2) 

This is possible with God.

"Therefore submit to God." (in James 4:7)

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

Here is part of our obedience which will increase, if God is giving the increase by working in our wills!

God will change our character so we are submissive to Him in His own peace. Then we can obey how He our Heavenly Father personally rules each of us in His very own peace. God is almighty; so this peace of God is almighty to succeed in this, easily and breezily and beautifully in "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30) which Jesus guarantees us while we do what He really has us doing. 

So, working this out includes refusing to give in to any feelings, emotions, thinking, preferences, and ways of reacting that are not in the peace of God ruling us. Also > there are wrong preferences for how to get pleasure; so these are not the peace of God ruling in us; and God almighty is easily able to get rid of evil preferences, and the nasty emotional ways of reacting about not getting our selfish way >

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice." (Ephesians 4:31)

And so we have immunity of God Himself in us, against sin-sick emotional stuff.

God's peace is almighty to guard our hearts and minds so we do not suffer in nasty and cruel stuff in us > this means, while we obey how God in us has us praying, of course >

"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (Philippians 4:6-7)

So, while we obey how God has us praying . . . God's own peace almighty guards our "hearts and minds". So, it is critical that we do not worship excuses about how things are wrong in our personalities, but trust how God has us working.

And only then can we love, instead > 

"And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:32)

Because God is the One causing our obedience, we are actually sharing with God Himself in us, so we can "even as God" forgive!

Ones can take "even as God" to mean . . . "because God has"; and then they can trust the excuse that because "they are not God", they can not forgive in the same loving way that our Father has forgiven us. But if we are in union with God (1 Corinthians 6:17) producing how we forgive . . . His love will have us kindly and caringly and generously and cheerfully forgiving, I would say 

After all, our working out is how God is able to have us working this out. And because this is in God's almighty power, this is easier than how we can try to do what we think this means. For us, then, this is impossible, not only hard. But this is possible with God and how He has us being "strong in the Lord and in the power of His might" (in Ephesians 6:10, commanded for us to obey!); and isn't this "might" of Jesus almighty, including in His own immunity almighty against sin-sick and Satanic sorts of anger and unforgiveness and dominating and dictatorial drives for pleasure?

Yes, and He keeps increasing us in this as He keeps changing our character to be how His love is. We grow in this, in sharing with Jesus in us, and while helping one another with this. The action of God's grace does this, plus He has us ministering this to one another > 

"As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God." (1 Peter 4:10)

So, it is important to know that working out our salvation is done with one another, so that we >

"speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the Head---Christ---" (in Ephesians 4:15)

Speak this, then, and pray this with hope for how God is able to do this.

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by com7fy8

[David1701]

3 hours ago, johann pretorius said:

To no one in particular...Lol!

 

The Grammar Of Salvation
1. The voice of a verb tells whether a thing is acting or being acted upon. The active voice indicates that a thing itself is acting; the passive voice indicates that a thing itself is being acted upon by another, it being passive in the action.

Active    Passive
He swallowed the fish.    He was swallowed by the fish.
We know God (Gal 4:9).    We are known of God (Gal 4:9).
Then shall I know (I Cor 13:10).    As also I am known (I Cor 13:10).
He accepted God.    He is accepted with God (Ep 1:6).
2. The tense of a verb tells the timing of the action. Past, present, and future tenses are obvious to most everyone.

Past    Present    Future
They ran to school.    They run to school.    They will run to school.
She loved the saints.    She loves the saints.    She will love the saints.
They were begotten.    They are being begotten.    They will be begotten.
Who was born.    Who is being born.    Who will be born.
3. The perfect tense means an action was completed, or perfected, some time before the given tense and is still true in the given tense. Perfect tense exists for past, present, and future.

Past Perfect    Present Perfect    Future Perfect
They had run to school.    They have run to school.    They will have run.
She had loved the saints.    She has loved the saints.    She will have loved.
They had been begotten.    They have been begotten.    They will have been begot.
Who had been born.    Who have been born.    Who will have been born.
4. Verb order has nothing to do with timing, if the verb tenses indicate otherwise.

Verb Order
The man that won the sit-up contest had run five miles. (He ran first)
They reported all that the chief priests had said unto them (Acts 4:23).
The elders at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God (Acts 8:14).
He found a certain man, which had kept his bed eight years (Acts 9:33).
They cast them into the cave wherein they had been hid (Josh 10:27).
I John 5:1 “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”
The man that “believeth” [present tense] “is born” [perfect tense, passive voice] of God.
The grammar declares by verb tenses that the man was born of God before he believed.
Therefore, believing the gospel about Jesus Christ is evidence and proof of regeneration.
If you make it conditional, you must also require love and righteousness (I Jn 2:29; 4:7).
But love and righteousness are evidence of regeneration (I John 3:7,10,14; III John 1:11).
By comparing this verse to I John 4:7 and I John 3:14, you can clearly see it is evidence.
By reading more than the sound bite, we see other verbs proving evidence (I John 4:15).
And we can also verify that evidence is indicated here by reading I John 5:4 and 5:13.
Modern usage would write, anyone believing Jesus is the Christ has been born of God.
Those who make these statements to be conditional are ignorant or liars. Let God be true!
Check Greek verbs in A.T. Robertson, Berry’s Interlinear, J.M. Pendleton, here, or here.
I John 4:15 “Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.”
Remember the rule that order of verbs does not matter, for the tenses determine priority.
The act of faith, in confessing Jesus as Son, is clearly in the future tense, “shall confess.”
The result of regeneration, indwelling by God, is in the present tense, “God dwelleth.”
John taught that God already dwells in any person that confesses Jesus is the Son of God.
Confessing Jesus is the Son of God is evidence of union with God, not a condition for it.
John 5:24 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
What tenses are “heareth,” “believeth,” “hath,” “shall not come,” and “is passed”?
The one hearing and believing (present tense) is already in possession of eternal life.
The one hearing and believing (present tense) shall not come into future condemnation.
The one hearing and believing (present) has already been passed by the perfect tense.
Modern usage would write, the man that believes has been passed from death unto life.
A believer has been passed from death to life, owns eternal life, and will not be damned.
This verse by itself is a wonderful lesson in salvation grammar by its variety of tenses.
Of course, the verse is read, quoted, and preached as a sound bite for decisional salvation.
Check Greek verbs in A.T. Robertson, Berry’s Interlinear, J.M. Pendleton, here, or here.
John 1:12-13 “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
What are the verb tenses of “received,” “gave,” “believe,” and “were born”? Love them!
“Received him” is past tense as transition from John 1:11 in John’s historical account.
John brought past tense to the present by explanatory “even” and present tense “believe.”
Jesus “gave” [past tense] power to be God’s sons to those that “believe” [present tense].
Those who “believe” [present tense] “were born” [past tense] of God – the true order.
The action of birthing them by God had been perfected, or completed, before their belief.
Only this construction and understanding agrees with the descriptive facts of John 1:13.
Only this construction and understanding agrees with the rest of New Testament doctrine.
It is a travesty that men only quote and preach John 1:12, though it is but half a sentence.
For expositional details of John 1:12-13.
1 Corinthians 1:18 “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.”
Only those who “are saved” (perfect tense, passive voice) perceive the gospel as glorious.
Those perishing do not profit by hearing the gospel; it is foolishness to them (II Cor 4:3).
The language is clear – a perfect tense “are saved” and a present tense “is” perceived – indicates that salvation occurred prior to the gospel being perceived as the power of God.
Paul used verb tenses here to show the gospel only benefits those already saved (called).
God must call a man in order for the gospel to make sense to that man (I Cor 1:22-24).
It is a travesty men use this verse as if the gospel were the conditional means of salvation.
For details of I Corinthians 1.
Ephesians 1:6 “To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.”
This text has to do with justification, not regeneration; but is it conditional at all?
Paul taught that our salvation is dependent on being accepted, not by accepting (Eph 1:6).
Crucial on Judgment Day is God’s acceptance of you, not yours of Him (Matt 7:21-23).
Here we are dealing with the voice of the verb – are we active or passive in acceptance?
It is the holy God accepting sinners by the merits of His beloved Son’s finished work.
The religious world is clamoring, buying, and seducing sinners to accept Jesus Christ.
God declared our adoption to result from being made acceptable to Him in Jesus Christ.
For more Ephesians 1.
Acts 10:35 “But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.”
This text has to do with justification, not regeneration; but is it conditional at all?
He that feareth (singular, present tense) is accepted with Him (singular, perfect tense).
He that worketh righteousness (singular, present tense) is accepted (singular, perfect).
Thus, a man fearing God and working righteousness has already been accepted by God.
The context shows that Cornelius already had five traits of saved men (Acts 10:1-5).
Being accepted with God through Jesus Christ is the stated key to salvation (Eph 1:6).
If we preach conditions, we violate grace and Scripture (Rom 3:18; I Jn 2:29; 3:7,10).
The only salvation Peter could give Cornelius was conversion (Ja 5:19-20; I Tim 4:16).
Cornelius.
Acts 13:39 “And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the Law of Moses.”
This text has to do with justification, not regeneration; but is it conditional at all?
All that “believe” (plural, present tense) “are justified” (plural, perfect tense). Glory!
Paul further confirmed the fact by ascribing justification “by him,” that is, by Christ!
Paul argued that justification precedes faith in an evangelistic text about justification.
Salvation phases.
 

I'm impressed; and that does not happen easily, or often. 

[com7fy8]

@johann pretorius You ask,

"Is a carnal Christian born again?"

I did not read it but I scanned it and discovered your question at the end 

It is possible the person is not born again.

If the person is, my opinion is that our Father will correct the person, going by Hebrews 12:8 >

"But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons." (Hebrews 12:8)

Hebrews 12:4-14 says this chastening changes a person to share with God in His own holiness, in His love's "peaceable fruit of righteousness". Or else, a person is not being prepared by God to spend eternity with Jesus!

But a person can be getting drawn to trust in Christ. So you are wise to sow what God is able to use to help the person become genuinely converted.

Sow your good example in the sight of God. Sow prayer and God's word and good things you do.

Carnal people can be impossible to deal with. But whatever God has us doing is not in vain.

Edited October 2, 2022 by com7fy8

[FreeGrace]

On 10/1/2022 at 10:33 PM, com7fy8 said:

@johann pretorius You ask,

"Is a carnal Christian born again?"

I did not read it but I scanned it and discovered your question at the end 

It is possible the person is not born again.

If one is using the word "Christian" as defined in the Bible, then every carnal Christian is born again.  Because ALL Christians are born again.

On 10/1/2022 at 10:33 PM, com7fy8 said:

If the person is, my opinion is that our Father will correct the person, going by Hebrews 12:8 >

"But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons." (Hebrews 12:8)

Hebrews 12:4-14 says this chastening changes a person to share with God in His own holiness, in His love's "peaceable fruit of righteousness". Or else, a person is not being prepared by God to spend eternity with Jesus!

But a person can be getting drawn to trust in Christ. So you are wise to sow what God is able to use to help the person become genuinely converted.

Sow your good example in the sight of God. Sow prayer and God's word and good things you do.

Carnal people can be impossible to deal with. But whatever God has us doing is not in vain.

Paul addressed the Corinthian congregation as being "carnal" in his first epistle.  Yet, throughout that epistle, Paul repeatedly affirmed their eternal security.

[com7fy8]

On 1/18/2023 at 7:58 AM, FreeGrace said:

Paul addressed the Corinthian congregation as being "carnal" in his first epistle.

And they responded to his correction. They repented. 

In Hebrews 12:8 we have that if someone is "without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons." 

So, the definition of a born again person is the person gets corrected, right?

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, com7fy8 said:

And they responded to his correction. They repented. 

In Hebrews 12:8 we have that if someone is "without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons." 

So, the definition of a born again person is the person gets corrected, right?

No, that's not the definition of a born again person.  A born again person is one who has been "made alive" or "rengerated" or "born again" by the Holy Spirit on the basis of faith in Christ for salvation.

Unbelievers can get corrected yet are still unregenerate.

[com7fy8]

14 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Unbelievers can get corrected yet are still unregenerate.

I mean the correction testified in Hebrews 12:4-14. This is not how unregenerate people can get correction.

[FreeGrace]

34 minutes ago, com7fy8 said:

I mean the correction testified in Hebrews 12:4-14. This is not how unregenerate people can get correction.

Correction is immaterial for unbelievers.  They need to be saved.

[kwikphilly]

On 1/20/2023 at 12:19 PM, FreeGrace said:

No, that's not the definition of a born again person.  A born again person is one who has been "made alive" or "rengerated" or "born again" by the Holy Spirit on the basis of faith in Christ for salvation.

Unbelievers can get corrected yet are still unregenerate.

Blessings

The chastening  referred to in the Scriptures is God Disciplining His Own by the Power of Holy Spirit Indwelling as Rosie posted in the full context -

As a Christian I can go to someone I believe is a member of the Body of Christ ( Church)and offer " correction" yet that person will be completely unreceptive as they are DEAD ,their spirit has not been made ALIVE - of course Holy Spirit CAN Reveal the condition of their heart to them if our Lord so Desires to Call upon them at that specific time,therefore we cannot say this is impossible- However,this is not ordinary

Jesus Christ Abides in the Born Again Believer,Holy Spirit Indwells,the chastening or Disciple from our Heavenly Father is Seen by the Eyes of the Heart,these Eyes of Understanding Receive the Knowledge Made Known to us by the very Heart & Mind of Christ ,the HEAD of the BODY in which we are members - this is not Condemnation,it is Conciction

Christ in us,us in Him,we ....being Made Alive and in the Unity of our Faith are Convicted by Holy Spirit to the Obedience of Christ Jesus,not by mandate but because we LOVE Him.If there is no Love,this is not a Born Again Believer

With love in Christ, Kwik

At the very least,anyone who has hatred in them should consider this a red flag & repent,it's an indication that something is very very wrong!