Daniel's 70 weeks?

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, Uriah said:

Hi Marilyn,

Thanks for your explanation. I don't see how it works with the calculations the formula people use to arrive at the triumphant entry of Jesus on Palm Sunday. It won't work for the first 7 weeks that Daniel was told of.

Hi Uriah,

What don`t you see about this diagram? Maybe I can explain it better.

Here is a diagram of the 69 weeks ( of 7 years).

…I…………………………………I.......................................….I…….X….                             ..Mar. 5, 444 BC…7 yrs….I……62 yrs......................Mar.30 Messiah the Prince. 

                                                   

538 B.C. Daniel`s Prophecy. (Dan. 9: 24 – 27)

Mar. 5, 444 BC – Nehemiah 2: 1 – 8 Artaxerxes Longimanus of Persia gives edict to rebuild Jerusalem & Temple.

 

Mar. 30, 33 AD Palm Sunday. Zechariah 9: 9  & Luke 19: 29 – 44 The Messiah appears as Prince.

 

Marilyn.

BTW the diagram was a muddle when I posted it so had to try and shorten it.

[Jedi4Yahweh]

19 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Mar. 5, 444 BC – Nehemiah 2: 1 – 8 Artaxerxes Longimanus of Persia gives edict to rebuild Jerusalem & Temple.

Where are you getting this date?  I have seen numerous dates/years for the decree.  How do we know for sure which one is correct?   I am sure one could say that you can work backwards but that seems like a dishonest way and forcing dates to fit our theory.

[Uriah]

On 10/27/2022 at 5:08 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Uriah,

What don`t you see about this diagram? Maybe I can explain it better.

Here is a diagram of the 69 weeks ( of 7 years).

…I…………………………………I.......................................….I…….X….                             ..Mar. 5, 444 BC…7 yrs….I……62 yrs......................Mar.30 Messiah the Prince. 

                                                   

538 B.C. Daniel`s Prophecy. (Dan. 9: 24 – 27)

Mar. 5, 444 BC – Nehemiah 2: 1 – 8 Artaxerxes Longimanus of Persia gives edict to rebuild Jerusalem & Temple.

 

Mar. 30, 33 AD Palm Sunday. Zechariah 9: 9  & Luke 19: 29 – 44 The Messiah appears as Prince.

 

Marilyn.

BTW the diagram was a muddle when I posted it so had to try and shorten it.

Hi Marilyn,

 What I don't see is how using the same shorter years one can arrive at the proper date for the first 7 weeks. The historical fact of its date of completion/fulfillment is widely known..

The decree of B.C. 458 (Ezra 7) is the right one IMO.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Uriah
Months/years

[Jedi4Yahweh]

19 minutes ago, Uriah said:

Hi Marilyn,

 What I don't see is how using the same shorter months one can arrive at the proper date for the first 7 weeks. The historical fact of its date of completion/fulfillment is widely known..

The decree of B.C. 458 (Ezra 7) is the right one IMO.

That is my point your saying 458bc, she is saying 444bc.

There seems to be confusion on the decree start dates based on different decrees given by the King of Persia.

538 B.C. — Cyrus, King of Persia, issued a decree to Zerubbabel to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem (2 Chronicles 36:22-23; Ezra 1:1-3; and Ezra 6:1-5).

457 B.C. — Artaxerxes, King of Persia, issued a decree to Ezra authorizing him to reinstitute the Temple services, appoint judges and magistrates, and teach the Law (Ezra 7:11-26).

445 B.C. — Artaxerxes issued a decree to Nehemiah to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem (Nehemiah 2:1-8).

Edited October 28, 2022 by Jedi4Yahweh

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

Hi Marilyn,

 What I don't see is how using the same shorter months one can arrive at the proper date for the first 7 weeks. The historical fact of its date of completion/fulfillment is widely known..

The decree of B.C. 458 (Ezra 7) is the right one IMO.

Hi Uriah,

There are different schools of thought on the dates.

So that is where we differ, the starting point. I believe (March 5)444 BC, which takes us to exactly, (March 30) 33 AD, Palm Sunday, (Zech. 9: 9 &  Luke 19: 29 - 44.)

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

That is my point your saying 458bc, she is saying 444bc.

There seems to be confusion on the decree start dates based on different decrees given by the King of Persia.

538 B.C. — Cyrus, King of Persia, issued a decree to Zerubbabel to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem (2 Chronicles 36:22-23; Ezra 1:1-3; and Ezra 6:1-5).

457 B.C. — Artaxerxes, King of Persia, issued a decree to Ezra authorizing him to reinstitute the Temple services, appoint judges and magistrates, and teach the Law (Ezra 7:11-26).

445 B.C. — Artaxerxes issued a decree to Nehemiah to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem (Nehemiah 2:1-8).

However, you do not end up at the right point of the 69 x 7, on Palm Sunday.

[Uriah]

2 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Uriah,

There are different schools of thought on the dates.

So that is where we differ, the starting point. I believe (March 5)444 BC, which takes us to exactly, (March 30) 33 AD, Palm Sunday, (Zech. 9: 9 &  Luke 19: 29 - 44.)

Marilyn.

 

Hi Marilyn,

I know we differ on that. I was briefly making a case for the alternative. 

[RevReveal]

52 minutes ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

That is my point your saying 458bc, she is saying 444bc.

There seems to be confusion on the decree start dates based on different decrees given by the King of Persia.

538 B.C. — Cyrus, King of Persia, issued a decree to Zerubbabel to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem (2 Chronicles 36:22-23; Ezra 1:1-3; and Ezra 6:1-5).

457 B.C. — Artaxerxes, King of Persia, issued a decree to Ezra authorizing him to reinstitute the Temple services, appoint judges and magistrates, and teach the Law (Ezra 7:11-26).

445 B.C. — Artaxerxes issued a decree to Nehemiah to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem (Nehemiah 2:1-8).

My thoughts…

1) Artaxerxes decree in 457bc starts the clock got the 490 years,

2) First 49 years until completion of Temple,

3) Next 434 years for completion of walls, streets, city, etc., and Jews self-governing, 

4) Everything physical in Jerusalem is now fully restored as it was before the Babylonian captivity, except for ONE thing. The Ark of the covenant was taken by Jeremiah and safely hid so Nebuchadnezzar could not take it with him to Babylon- this was certainly a God given message to Jeremiah. 

5) That was necessary to fulfill the prophecy in Jeremiah 31: 31-34. After 62 weeks or after the 2nd section of the 3 part 70 weeks, the Messiah.

6) The Messiah would come / arrive on the 1st day of the 70th week (first 7+62 weeks =69 weeks have been completed). 
 

7) His arrival would begin His 3.5 year ministry. It would also complete the FULL restoration of everything necessary as it was prior to Babylon captivity - because now the Ark of the covenant would also be present in the form of the Messiah. 
 

8) Jesus would be crucified (cut off) in the middle of the last week of Daniel’s 70th week. He would still complete His Father’s commands- 9:24-27 during His time on earth. On the cross He said, “It is finished” - His mission was completed. 
 

9) The “He” in 9:27 is this Messiah who was “cut off”. 
 

10) The prince of the people is Titus who comes AFTER the 490 years- he is outside the 70 weeks prophecy but still prophesied in chapter 9 - since he is not part of the “restoration” prophecy of the 70 weeks but is a “destructive” prophecy for the Jews failure to accept their Messiah- God gave the Jews 40 years  to accept Him before He destroyed the Temple and everything that WAS restored after Babylon. 

11) The literal 70 weeks or 490 year prophecy is finished. However, there is still ONE thing that is NOT finished- the last 3.5 years of the last week is still incomplete- not in a literal sense but there still remains these 3.5 years to be completed as they relate to the Jubilee period. The Jubilee began in 457bc and WOULD have ended on 33AD (end of 70th week). The Jubilee clock had stopped when Jesus was crucified. Consequently, it must be completed (last 3.5 years), and this WILL occur at the end of time. When the Jews accept Jesus as their Messiah in the coming years (soon) it will start the clock again and we will see the Jews preaching the Messiah and the Good News ( like Paul) for 3.5 years, then it will complete the Jubilee requirements and also the end will come.

 

 

 

 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

14 minutes ago, RevReveal said:

10) The prince of the people is Titus who comes AFTER the 490 years- he is outside the 70 weeks prophecy but still prophesied in chapter 9 - since he is not part of the “restoration” prophecy of the 70 weeks but is a “destructive” prophecy for the Jews failure to accept their Messiah- God gave the Jews 40 years  to accept Him before He destroyed the Temple and everything that WAS restored after Babylon. 

11) The literal 70 weeks or 490 year prophecy is finished. However, there is still ONE thing that is NOT finished- the last 3.5 years of the last week is still incomplete- not in a literal sense but there still remains these 3.5 years to be completed as they relate to the Jubilee period. The Jubilee began in 457bc and WOULD have ended on 33AD (end of 70th week). The Jubilee clock had stopped when Jesus was crucified. Consequently, it must be completed (last 3.5 years), and this WILL occur at the end of time. When the Jews accept Jesus as their Messiah in the coming years (soon) it will start the clock again and we will see the Jews preaching the Messiah and the Good News ( like Paul) for 3.5 years, then it will complete the Jubilee requirements and also the end will come.

Yes, I am having a hard time reconciling the 2000+ year gap theory.   It just does not make sense to say 490yrs has been determined upon you people, then say well there is this huge gap between the last 7 yrs that last some 2000+ years.  Nothing in scripture accounts for this huge gap...at least I am not finding.  I honestly believe the 70AD Temple destruction and desolation of Jerusalem somehow fits into this equation some how.

[Uriah]

1 hour ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

That is my point your saying 458bc, she is saying 444bc.

There seems to be confusion on the decree start dates based on different decrees given by the King of Persia.

538 B.C. — Cyrus, King of Persia, issued a decree to Zerubbabel to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem (2 Chronicles 36:22-23; Ezra 1:1-3; and Ezra 6:1-5).

457 B.C. — Artaxerxes, King of Persia, issued a decree to Ezra authorizing him to reinstitute the Temple services, appoint judges and magistrates, and teach the Law (Ezra 7:11-26).

445 B.C. — Artaxerxes issued a decree to Nehemiah to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem (Nehemiah 2:1-8).

Hi Jedi4Yaweh,

The most popular date used these days is B.C. 444/445. from there it is common to use "prophetic years" made up of only 360 days each. By doing so they can count 69 weeks of years and find it to be Palm Sunday with Jesus riding into Jerusalem on the donkey.

I and many scholars find it problematic. The prophetic years do not work for calculating part of the same prophecy. The prophetic years method as far as I remember came into existence in the late 1800's.

The one I provided was a typo. Should be B.C. 458. (Ezra 7). Using ordinary years, it more closely brings one to the beginning of Jesus' ministry. That would then support the fulfillment of Dan 9:27, cut off half way through (in the midst of) the week. 

Then we would not have to claim Jesus Jesus did NOT fulfill the prophecies stated earlier in the chapter, even though He said, "I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do."