creativemechanic Posted October 27, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 414 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 1,273 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 518 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/22/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 27, 2022 Was reading up on the Billy Graham rule. Basically , during his ministry, he and his team had a rule by which none of them would be alone with a woman not their mother ,wife ,sister or daughter. I saw a Washington Post article which criticised it claiming that it demeans the marriage , acting like you cant uphold your marriage vows without a babysitter or its like a thief claiming he wont come at your house without a parole officer so he wont steal. What I find amusing is that- in his decades of ministry, and in light of all the pastors who've fallen into trouble due to sexual sin, have you ever heard of Billy Graham in any such scandal? Nope. A valuable lesson- So long as its biblically sound, never let peoples criticism or ridicule dissuade you from taking the stances or strategies you know you have to take to stay on the right track. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted October 27, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, creativemechanic said: Was reading up on the Billy Graham rule. Basically , during his ministry, he and his team had a rule by which none of them would be alone with a woman not their mother ,wife ,sister or daughter. I saw a Washington Post article which criticised it claiming that it demeans the marriage , acting like you cant uphold your marriage vows without a babysitter or its like a thief claiming he wont come at your house without a parole officer so he wont steal. What I find amusing is that- in his decades of ministry, and in light of all the pastors who've fallen into trouble due to sexual sin, have you ever heard of Billy Graham in any such scandal? Nope. A valuable lesson- So long as its biblically sound, never let peoples criticism or ridicule dissuade you from taking the stances or strategies you know you have to take to stay on the right track. Yes, I know that. I have read that about him before. Good rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not of the World Posted October 27, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 86 Topics Per Day: 0.15 Content Count: 1,060 Content Per Day: 1.87 Reputation: 456 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/12/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted October 27, 2022 Mike Pence was ridiculed by the political left for adhering to that rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted October 27, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 27, 2022 1 minute ago, OneLight said: I am sure if you really investigate you will see that this rule was about having a conversation of any sort with a woman that is not their family so nobody could say something was going on between them, nor can they be accused of anything. They always had to have another person with them for accountability purpose. Not that they would do anything, but to account for the whole session in case there were any questions about behavior. I never meant that a man could not be alone with his kids , wife, mother, so on. That's just crazy talk. Right, it is only for their accountablity among a woman not of their family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 27, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 27, 2022 1 hour ago, creativemechanic said: Was reading up on the Billy Graham rule. Basically , during his ministry, he and his team had a rule by which none of them would be alone with a woman not their mother ,wife ,sister or daughter. I saw a Washington Post article which criticised it claiming that it demeans the marriage , acting like you cant uphold your marriage vows without a babysitter or its like a thief claiming he wont come at your house without a parole officer so he wont steal. What I find amusing is that- in his decades of ministry, and in light of all the pastors who've fallen into trouble due to sexual sin, have you ever heard of Billy Graham in any such scandal? Nope. A valuable lesson- So long as its biblically sound, never let peoples criticism or ridicule dissuade you from taking the stances or strategies you know you have to take to stay on the right track. It's more for protecting the ministry against false accusations. What better way for Satan to bring down one of Gods own than to slander their name and ministry with false accusations? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 27, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 27, 2022 1 minute ago, missmuffet said: Right, it is only for their accountablity among a woman not of their family. You're quick! I went back to reread the OP and discovered that I misunderstood what was posted, so I deleted the post you quoted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted October 27, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 107 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,820 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,806 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 27, 2022 54 minutes ago, creativemechanic said: A valuable lesson- So long as its biblically sound,.... That's just it. It isn't Biblically sound. I can't find that principle in the Bible. Are you trying to say that men can't be trusted or women can't be trusted? Are all men pigs or are all women whores? It's got to be one or the other. I really liked Billy Graham. He was one of my favorite preachers. But this "rule" is archaic. And sexist. And it doesn't address the heart of the problem. It's like saying to an overweight person to not go into a grocery store or restaurant - EVER. Does that take away the cravings and desires for the wrong foods? Nope. What Paul says to Timothy, the young pastor, is that it was good not to touch a woman. But that was not a universal command. I fell in August coming down the stairs from the piano at church. I hit my head on the wall and blood was gushing. There were two men touching me alright. One was going through my hair like one monkey picking through head of another. He was looking for the gash. The other man was wiping my head, face, and neck with wet cloths to clean the blood. Paul also says to Timothy to treat older women like mothers and younger women like sisters with absolute purity. I think THAT'S a good Biblical rule. It creates a healthy respect without pretending they have sexual "cooties". 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creativemechanic Posted October 27, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 414 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 1,273 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 518 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/22/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, Jayne said: That's just it. It isn't Biblically sound. I can't find that principle in the Bible. Are you trying to say that men can't be trusted or women can't be trusted? Are all men pigs or are all women whores? It's got to be one or the other. I really liked Billy Graham. He was one of my favorite preachers. But this "rule" is archaic. And sexist. And it doesn't address the heart of the problem. It's like saying to an overweight person to not go into a grocery store or restaurant - EVER. Does that take away the cravings and desires for the wrong foods? Nope. What Paul says to Timothy, the young pastor, is that it was good not to touch a woman. But that was not a universal command. I fell in August coming down the stairs from the piano at church. I hit my head on the wall and blood was gushing. There were two men touching me alright. One was going through my hair like one monkey picking through head of another. He was looking for the gash. The other man was wiping my head, face, and neck with wet cloths to clean the blood. Paul also says to Timothy to treat older women like mothers and younger women like sisters with absolute purity. I think THAT'S a good Biblical rule. It creates a healthy respect without pretending they have sexual "cooties". Romans 13:14 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts. You cant be in a compromising situation with a woman if youre not in a place where acompromising situation can happen. Ive heard stories of Christian men going to places totally innocently with women with no ill intent eg counselling, visiting only for the women to try things like walk out in lingerie, get dangerously close to them etc. Even if nothing happens, a woman could claim that he tried to assault her and the ministry goes down the toilet. And like I said, by doing this, he never got into any issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted October 27, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 107 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,820 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,806 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, creativemechanic said: Romans 13:14 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts. You cant be in a compromising situation with a woman if youre not in a place where acompromising situation can happen. Ive heard stories of Christian men going to places totally innocently with women with no ill intent eg counselling, visiting only for the women to try things like walk out in lingerie, get dangerously close to them etc. Even if nothing happens, a woman could claim that he tried to assault her and the ministry goes down the toilet. And like I said, by doing this, he never got into any issues I see, you think it's only the women who are carnal and harm the innocent men. That's the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted October 27, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,083 Content Per Day: 9.74 Reputation: 13,564 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 27, 2022 People could make accusations regardless of whether they were present together or not. While I respect the idea behind the rule as coming from a good place, I don't think it's necessary in most cases. There are some exceptions obviously. If a man is put with a woman close to his age to work with all the time and they have an attraction to one another, if one of them is married it isn't a good idea at all. I know of several instances where bad things happened. In one case it was a pastor who stayed at his office a lot at church and the church had a full time church secretary. Someone caught them hugging and it was all downhill from there. OTOH if the woman was 20 years older and could be his mother or the other way around, the chances of that being an issue are slim to none. The closest I look at anyone relationally that isn't my wife is the sister relationship. The flesh is the flesh and I believe we have to watch it. Women and men were designed to work together within the right contexts they can both be a great asset to one another. Emotional attachments are every bit as real as physical attachments. People can become enamored in long distance relationships as well. No harm in this for singles, I mean that's their business. It is bad for marriages though. Any time a man leans on another woman who isn't his wife in ways that should only be with his wife, it weakens the marriage and can destroy it....and one might think it takes a lot to start these kinds of fires, when often it really doesn't. If you have a woman who likes the male companionship and attention she is getting along with a man who is attracted to a woman you almost have full combustion already. The flesh doesn't care if you're married or not. The bigger concern probably isn't what people think so much as what's actually happening IMO. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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