Shilohsfoal Posted January 1 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1 (edited) 49 minutes ago, WilliamL said: ...by Antiochus Epiphanies, in 168 BC, verse 31. But Daniel 11:40 and following take place in the "time of the end," and is an as yet unfulfilled prophecy. So you believe the people being put in prison and murdered in Daniel 11:33-35 ( untill the time of the end) are persecuted in this way for thousands of years ? Who do you claim these people are who you believe are killed and remain in prison from 164 bc to 2024? Daniel 11:33-35 Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed. During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come. Edited January 1 by Shilohsfoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted January 1 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1 56 minutes ago, WilliamL said: The Word says no such thing. Saints are saved from sin, and will be saved from the time of God's wrath. But the tribulation is not the wrath, it precedes the wrath. Trib > Rapture > Wrath. The Beast is post trib and post rapture. The Son of Perdition is pre rapture: he is not the Beast. Rev. 7:14's saints 'out of the trib' are in heaven before the trumpets sound; the abyss is not opened until the 5th trumpet; the Beast ascends from that opened Abyss; thus the Beast is post trib. Which beast are you talking about is post tribulation? The beast from the sea,which the resurected saints who die for their testimony wouldnt worship or take its mark? Revelation 20 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Or are you talking about the beast from the abyss that kills the two witnesses? Revelation 11 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted January 1 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,067 Content Per Day: 3.29 Reputation: 1,466 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1 10 hours ago, WilliamL said: The Word says no such thing. Saints are saved from sin, and will be saved from the time of God's wrath. But the tribulation is not the wrath, it precedes the wrath. Trib > Rapture > Wrath. "Saved" must be defined by the context, otherwise childbearing is the way to to avoid the Lake of Fire (1st Tim.2:15). Take a word out of context and you can prove anything. Your sequence is not shown by scripture. Wrath is an emotion. Tribulation is a state of suffering. Revelation 6 shows men in Tribulation who admit that "the great day of his WRATH has come." Matthew 24 shows God's reaction to setting up a Gentile in the Holy Place - Tribulation such as never was before. The CAUSE - God's WRATH. In Romans 1 God's WRATH is revealed - FOR UNGODLINESS. It is not a period of wrath, It is His wrath that ends in a period of tribulation. Quote The Lord comes in clouds, every eye sees him, the dead are raised, the elect ascend, the Jews are converted, the heathen wail, the Wrath begins. Again, you have not taken care of what scripture says. - The Lord comes HIDDEN in the clouds. At first no one sees Him because He comes like a thief. One is taken, one is left. The House is broken up. It is a House of SERVANTS. It is a HOUSE taught by PARABLES. The one TAKEN is taken as an intimate friend (Taken = "Paralambano"). - Later (AFTER the Tribulation of those days), He comes in the clouds like lightning. The people of the LAND mourn. The elect are gathered by angels from the four winds. Only Israel was dispersed to the four winds. They are not taken UP. They are gathered from the dispersion and set in Canaan (Ezek.37) - The Jews are not converted. They remain blind to the end (Rom.11:25). FAITH is needed for conversion. Israel do not BELIEVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted January 1 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,159 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,568 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted January 1 2 hours ago, AdHoc said: Matthew 24 shows God's reaction to setting up a Gentile in the Holy Place - Tribulation such as never was before. The CAUSE - God's WRATH. Matthew says no such thing about God's WRATH. Projection on your part. 2 hours ago, AdHoc said: The Lord comes HIDDEN in the clouds. The secret rapture theory. Scripture says otherwise: Rev. 1:7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. Every eye means every eye: nothing secret about it. 2 hours ago, AdHoc said: At first no one sees Him because He comes like a thief. One is taken, one is left. The House is broken up. It is a House of SERVANTS. You misunderstand the difference between His servants and His first fruit/firstborn elect. The former are the post-rapture House of Israel, the latter the raptured elect of His Church. Explained in detail here: 56. The Firstfruits and the Harvest 2.0; Part 1 An upgrade of article #24. Explains the prophetic application of OT laws about the firstfruits, the firstborn, and the full harvest, as these laws relate to the End Times. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2686-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-1/ 57. The Firstfruits and the Harvest 2.0; Part 2 https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2687-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-2/ 2 hours ago, AdHoc said: The Jews are not converted. They remain blind to the end (Rom.11:25). FAITH is needed for conversion. Israel do not BELIEVE. They will instantly believe at the Parousia, when they "look on Him whom they pierced, and mourn..." Thus showing their repentance and faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted January 1 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, WilliamL said: They will instantly believe at the Parousia, when they "look on Him whom they pierced, and mourn..." Thus showing their repentance and faith. Is that why they flee when the Lord comes to Jerusalem with his saints? Zech 14 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. THey will flee from the Lord like roaches from a light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debrakay Posted January 1 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,249 Content Per Day: 1.92 Reputation: 3,104 Days Won: 20 Joined: 03/02/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1 I am not one who camps on prophesy as I do not have the knowledge, wisdom or calling to dissect the scriptures. But others do have that calling. But even then, I believe the first and main calling of those who are followers of Christ is to witness to the lost whenever and wherever we have the chance, especially if this is the beginning of all sorrows for the world. They need hope and salvation! The world has spent a few thousand years arguing whether God is real or not, let alone arguing about prophetic messages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted January 1 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 245 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 7,029 Content Per Day: 3.28 Reputation: 4,941 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted January 1 11 minutes ago, debrakay said: I am not one who camps on prophesy Another metaphor, " spinning their wheels in apocalyptic slush". It happens in reality, getting folk nowhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted January 1 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,067 Content Per Day: 3.29 Reputation: 1,466 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1 5 hours ago, WilliamL said: Matthew says no such thing about God's WRATH. Projection on your part. The secret rapture theory. Scripture says otherwise: Rev. 1:7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. Every eye means every eye: nothing secret about it. You misunderstand the difference between His servants and His first fruit/firstborn elect. The former are the post-rapture House of Israel, the latter the raptured elect of His Church. Explained in detail here: 56. The Firstfruits and the Harvest 2.0; Part 1 An upgrade of article #24. Explains the prophetic application of OT laws about the firstfruits, the firstborn, and the full harvest, as these laws relate to the End Times. https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2686-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-1/ 57. The Firstfruits and the Harvest 2.0; Part 2 https://worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2687-the-firstfruits-and-the-harvest-20-part-2/ They will instantly believe at the Parousia, when they "look on Him whom they pierced, and mourn..." Thus showing their repentance and faith. Thanks for the reply. It is read and noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted January 2 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,159 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,568 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted January 2 22 hours ago, debrakay said: The world has spent a few thousand years arguing whether God is real or not, let alone arguing about prophetic messages. 22 hours ago, Michael37 said: Another metaphor, " spinning their wheels in apocalyptic slush". It happens in reality, getting folk nowhere. Daniel 12:9 And he said, "Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand." 1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you. Luke 21:31 “So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near." Mark 13;37 “And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debrakay Posted January 3 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,249 Content Per Day: 1.92 Reputation: 3,104 Days Won: 20 Joined: 03/02/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 3 On 1/1/2024 at 1:25 PM, Michael37 said: Another metaphor, " spinning their wheels in apocalyptic slush". It happens in reality, getting folk nowhere. Agreed. I have always considered myself a peacemaker and a peacekeeper. I do not like debate that causes distress to another and becomes personal. There are some who have the gift of prophesy and then there are those who have the gift of interpreting prophesy, but both would be something that edifies believers and pricks the spirit of the unbeliever to seek the Lord. Interpreting prophesy would be right up there with physical healings and not something to just be babbled in at leisure or because someone felt like spouting off their theological interpretations. Any and all gifts of the Spirit should never be taken lightly as they affect the kingdom of God. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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