The souls under the altar (Rev. 6:9-11); are they killed before or during the tribulation period?

[AdHoc]

25 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Paul taught otherwise, quite clearly:

Phil 1:22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. 24 Nevertheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you.

Christ is in heaven, and that is where Paul said he would go when he died. Can't get more clear than that.

Yes, Christ is in heaven BODILY but your body is put off, or "destroyed". How then will you be with the Lord? But that is not all. Christ is on earth in Spirit (Jn.14:3, 18). And the Lord is in Hades (Ps.139:8). How then can you be in three places at once? But you have another two problems. If your body is "destroyed" you are Naked. How then do you appear before God in heaven naked? If you say that you receive your heavenly body, what then is the body that is RAISED in 1st Corinthians 15? Second, the dead are unclean. Does the unclean enter the Tabernacle of God?

But it gets worse. If you are in heaven with a heavenly body, how then does 1st Thessalonians 4 say that DEAD IN CHRIST will RISE. Are you not ALIVE and and with Christ in heaven?

And you still have not explained how David (i) is dead still, (ii) his tomb is still there, (iiI) he is still in Hades, and (iv) has NOT ascended.

[Sister]

On 12/6/2022 at 9:03 AM, The Light said:

No sister, your statement is impossible. The trumpets and vials are the wrath of God and they cannot begin before the seventh seal is opened. Therefore, it is impossible for the 6th seal to contain any trumpets and vials.

 

 

Quick rundown of the 6th seal - how does it end here? Christ has not destroyed all his enemies yet, and it is not finished.  Therefore all the 6 plagues have already been recieved.  The third woe is coming.

Revelation 6:12   And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

  Revelation 6:13   And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

  Revelation 6:14   And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

  Revelation 6:15   And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

  Revelation 6:16   And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

  Revelation 6:17   For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

[The Light]

5 hours ago, Sister said:

Quick rundown of the 6th seal - how does it end here? Christ has not destroyed all his enemies yet, and it is not finished.  Therefore all the 6 plagues have already been recieved.  The third woe is coming.

Revelation 6:12   And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

  Revelation 6:13   And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

  Revelation 6:14   And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

  Revelation 6:15   And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

  Revelation 6:16   And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

  Revelation 6:17   For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Jesus returns at the 6th seal for the gathering from heaven and earth. The great multitude go to heaven for the marriage supper and then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

The seals and trumpets are not the same timeline. None of the trumpets of wrath can happen until the 7th seal is opened so the trumpets cannot happen at the 6th seal.

[Sister]

11 hours ago, The Light said:

Jesus returns at the 6th seal for the gathering from heaven and earth. The great multitude go to heaven for the marriage supper and then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

The seals and trumpets are not the same timeline. None of the trumpets of wrath can happen until the 7th seal is opened so the trumpets cannot happen at the 6th seal.

Hi Light

There is only 3.5 yrs of great tribulation.  This starts as soon as the False Prophet is revealed and issues the Mark of the Beast.  Start the clock here.

All who take this Mark of the Beast, are those who refused to come out of Babylon so will also receive of her last 7 plagues.

There are only 7 angels with the 7 last plagues, not 14 angels.

All the seals, when opened up show us what's to come.

The sixth seal in Rev 6 is only condensed, showing the last part of that seal where men are hiding in the rocks and in the caves.  They are hiding because when Christ comes down to the Mt of Olives (the same place where he was taken captive) a great earthquake will happen.  At this same time the armies of the world are gathered against him for battle.  The whole land is afraid, including the soldiers, and all the others are hiding in fear.  The third woe comes quickly.

The seals when opened show us what's to come.  The sixth seal is only a glimpse of the end.  All the first 6 plagues have already been received by this stage.  The last plague is to come which is the 3rd woe.

The 7th seal only gives us 'the details' of what happened during that sixth seal.  More information.  A clearer picture.  During that 6th seal, 7 angels came out and delivered the plagues.  Each angel had a trumpet and a vial.  The trumpet is the warning, and the vial is the plague being poured out.  They happen at the same time. 

When the 7th Angel comes, it is done finished.  It's not finished at the 6th seal in Rev 6 as I pointed out. Unless I am missing something, I can't see it finished where that 6th seal ends?  Can you?

Edited December 8, 2022 by Sister

[The Light]

3 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Light

There is only 3.5 yrs of great tribulation.  This starts as soon as the False Prophet is revealed and issues the Mark of the Beast.  Start the clock here.

Hello again Sister. I think that is incorrect. I think we start the clock here.

Daniel 12

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

3 hours ago, Sister said:

All who take this Mark of the Beast, are those who refused to come out of Babylon so will also receive of her last 7 plagues.

Obviously

3 hours ago, Sister said:

There are only 7 angels with the 7 last plagues, not 14 angels.

Ok

3 hours ago, Sister said:

All the seals, when opened up show us what's to come.

The sixth seal in Rev 6 is only condensed, showing the last part of that seal where men are hiding in the rocks and in the caves.  They are hiding because when Christ comes down to the Mt of Olives (the same place where he was taken captive) a great earthquake will happen.  At this same time the armies of the world are gathered against him for battle.  The whole land is afraid, including the soldiers, and all the others are hiding in fear.  The third woe comes quickly.

Jesus returns at the 6th seal. It is the same coming as the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. It is also the same coming of Jesus in Revelation 14. However, this is NOT when Jesus sets His feet on the Mount of Olives at the end of the trumpets.

3 hours ago, Sister said:

The seals when opened show us what's to come. 

The seals line up with Matthew 24. The 1st four seals, the four horsemen of the Apocalypse are the beginning of sorrows in Matthew 24. The 5th seal is the great tribulation. The sixth seal is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. This is not when Jesus sets His feet on the Mount of Olives.

 

3 hours ago, Sister said:

 

The sixth seal is only a glimpse of the end.  All the first 6 plagues have already been received by this stage.  The last plague is to come which is the 3rd woe.

This is incorrect sister. The tribulation is OVER at the 6th seal. THEN the wrath of God begins.

3 hours ago, Sister said:

The 7th seal only gives us 'the details' of what happened during that sixth seal.  More information.  A clearer picture.

The seals are the tribulation period. Jesus returns at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation of those days. THEN the wrath of God begins when the 7th seal is opened. When Jesus returns and sets His feet on the Mount of Olives it is not the same coming as the 6th seal and Matthew 24, and Revelation 14

3 hours ago, Sister said:

 

During that 6th seal, 7 angels came out and delivered the plagues.  Each angel had a trumpet and a vial.  The trumpet is the warning, and the vial is the plague being poured out.  They happen at the same time. 

This is not correct, Sister. None of these events happen at the 6th seal. These events cannot happen until the seventh seal is opened. The seals are not events of the trumpets. The 1st six seals are the events of Matthew 24. And the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is not when Jesus sets His feet on the Mount of Olives.

3 hours ago, Sister said:

When the 7th Angel comes, it is done finished.  It's not finished at the 6th seal in Rev 6 as I pointed out. Unless I am missing something, I can't see it finished where that 6th seal ends?  Can you?

Jesus returns at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. This is immediately AFTER the tribulation and BEFORE the wrath of God. Tribulation and wrath are not the same. We are not appointed to wrath.

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Edited December 8, 2022 by The Light

[truth7t7]

16 hours ago, The Light said:

Jesus returns at the 6th seal for the gathering from heaven and earth. The great multitude go to heaven for the marriage supper and then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

The seals and trumpets are not the same timeline. None of the trumpets of wrath can happen until the 7th seal is opened so the trumpets cannot happen at the 6th seal.

"FALSES"!

[Sister]

On 12/8/2022 at 1:13 PM, The Light said:

Hello again Sister. I think that is incorrect. I think we start the clock here.

Daniel 12

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Hi Light

Yes that is also correct and harmonises nicely with other scriptures.

I have included the next verse which is revealing something very important;

Daniel 12:11   And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

  Daniel 12:12   Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

 

Wait another 45 days, and there is your rapture.

Why? 

The two witnesses have just been killed. That is the 2nd Woe.  The third woe is coming quickly.  The 3rd Woe is coming in 45 days.  Woe to the nations, but blessed is he who takes part in the Resurrection (rapture)

Something big is happening during those 45 days.

The world is rejoicing over the death of the two witnesses.  After 3.5 days they are brought again to life. 

  Revelation 11:13   And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
 

The end is not yet, but soon.  God is going to send in the Mede's to attack the gates of Babylon. Their headquarters, their infrastructure, their communications, power, everything, even the nations they rule over.  False prophet is losing power.  His kingdom is suddenly weakened.  Nation against nation, kingdom against kingdom, brother against brother.  The 3rd world war begins.  All this is leading up to Armageddon, the war against the Lamb.  All in 45 days.  And blessed is he that comes to the 1335 days, because there is only 1 resurrection and gathering unto Christ.  This is the day we are waiting for.

 

  Jeremiah 51:11   Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance of his temple.

  Jeremiah 51:12   Set up the standard upon the walls of Babylon, make the watch strong, set up the watchmen, prepare the ambushes: for the LORD hath both devised and done that which he spake against the inhabitants of Babylon.

  Jeremiah 51:13   O thou that dwellest upon many waters, abundant in treasures, thine end is come, and the measure of thy covetousness.

[Sister]

On 12/8/2022 at 1:13 PM, The Light said:

Jesus returns at the 6th seal. It is the same coming as the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. It is also the same coming of Jesus in Revelation 14. However, this is NOT when Jesus sets His feet on the Mount of Olives at the end of the trumpets.

Maybe you are right.  Maybe Christ has not touched down yet on to the Mt of Olives.  Maybe they are hiding in the rocks and the caves because of that earthquake when the 2 witnesses rise.  This would shock the world because they have been rejoicing then suddenly....they realise that these men were of God and go into panic and great fear.  Don't forget this is still the 6th seal we are discussing.

[Sister]

On 12/8/2022 at 1:13 PM, The Light said:

This is not correct, Sister. None of these events happen at the 6th seal. These events cannot happen until the seventh seal is opened. The seals are not events of the trumpets. The 1st six seals are the events of Matthew 24. And the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is not when Jesus sets His feet on the Mount of Olives.

Yes you are right.  This is not when Jesus sets his feet on the Mount of Olives.

But....the plagues come as soon as the Mark of the Beast is issued.

Revelation 16:2   And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
 

The 6th seal shows the end part of the tribulation, not the beginning.  All the plagues are obviously coming to an end, not about to start.

As  I stated before, when the 7th seal is opened, it is only 'revealing' what happened in the 6th seal.  It's telling the story on how it led up to that part with men hiding in the caves.  Those seals are only opening up our understanding of what's to come.  It's the giving of information and understanding.

[Sister]

On 12/8/2022 at 1:13 PM, The Light said:

Jesus returns at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. This is immediately AFTER the tribulation and BEFORE the wrath of God. Tribulation and wrath are not the same. We are not appointed to wrath.

I don't see the tribulation as finished here, because there is one more woe to go.  That one will be the end, the finito.  Judgement finished on Babylon.

They are not done in the 6th seal. 

Revelation 6:17   For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

"Who is going to die, who is going to live"?  is what they are asking.

Not yet finished -  Is what I am trying to explain.

 

Revelation 16:17   And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.