New Jerusalem - Order of Events

[JoeCanada]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

So what you need is for me to show you  the New Heaven and Earth coming AFTER the Lof?

Yes.. please show scripture for the new heaven and earth coming AFTER the LOF, which is at the end of the 1,000 year millennium. 

You said above: "WE KNOW all evil is gone BEFORE the new heaven and earth so we can SET THAT IN STONE.

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Yes.. please show scripture for the new heaven and earth coming AFTER the LOF, which is at the end of the 1,000 year millennium. 

You said above: "WE KNOW all evil is gone BEFORE the new heaven and earth so we can SET THAT IN STONE.

Ok, let me try it with more detail than the last time.  

Starting with the When Christ arrives

6 And now that which is restraining you know. 

 the events that have been written of, like the Apostasy and Satan and his angels being cast to the earth...  

for to be revealed him in his time 

The Lord cannot come before Satan has been revealed, until after he has sat proclaiming to be God aka the abomination of desolation stands where he ought not.  And he is 'revealed' when the two witnesses are made to stand upon their feet and called up to heaven.  The 2 'realms' are becoming one, the VOICE is heard from heaven and it makes men run and try and hid in the rocks.  The BRIGHTNESS of the Lords return SHINES on the deception that has been taking place.  The 7th trump sounds and the kingdoms of this world become His.  

7  The for mystery already is working of lawlessness only the restraining at present until out of midst he might be

8 And then will be revealed the lawless whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of the mouth of Him and will annul by the appearing of the coming of Him

The tribulation that comes before the Great tribulation ends AT THIS POINT.  Now is Gods wrath to be poured out.  Everyone on earth has chosen a side.  You have either withstood and overcome and endured to the end NOT having taken the mark of the beast or YOU have been deceived and have taken the Mark of the Beast.  

Since Gods wrath falls upon them and not us, we are kept from the hour, protected from the fiery darts of Satan by gospel armor.

9  whose is coming according to working of Satan in every power and in signs and in wonders of falsehood


Rev 19

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
 

Rev 20

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,


7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


 

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Anyways, what follows the GWTJ?   

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.


Now since the ONLY ONES LEFT were those who were found written in the book of life, 


How could there be an evil souls IN the new heaven and earth since there weren't any left on this one? 

Are they resurrected up again FROM THE 2ND DEATH to try again?   Where would they come from?
 

Edited December 21, 2022 by DeighAnn

[JoeCanada]

50 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Anyways, what follows the GWTJ?   

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

The whole point of my OP was that the new heaven and new earth and the New Jerusalem comes at Jesus' arrival.... not 1,000 years after.

Re-read the OP carefully. There are numerous scriptures that I didn't write out but included the references. It's up to anyone that cares to look them up. 

DeighAnn, please tell me where the saints, the redeemed, the Holy Ones, the bondservants of Christ..... where will they live on the earth, if they have to wait 1,000 years for the city, God's Holy Mountain, New Jerusalem to come down from heaven.

Jesus says that He will rule the nations with an iron fist, and that we will rule with Him. From where? From tents? From Bungalows spread out across the desert? 

No!

Jesus is the King, the Almighty. And He will dwell in the most glorious abode ever envisioned by man.... New Jerusalem, the City.

And we will dwell securely in New Jerusalem on a newly renovated earth with new heavens with Him...... a city   with 12 gates and 12 angels guarding them. Why do they need guarding if there are only God's people living on earth?

He said that He is going to prepare a place for us in His Fathers' House...... that where He is, we will be also. 

Rev 22:14-15:

Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.

Outside (of the city) are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

[Retrobyter]

On 12/19/2022 at 2:09 PM, JoeCanada said:

New Jerusalem – Order of Events

History’s ultimate climax will be the most spectacular, supernatural, miraculous phenomenon ever seen. The main focus of this climax is the return of the Redeemer, the Messiah.

He restores Paradise which had been lost.

He will right all wrongs and bring a permanent peace to our planet.

Look at the summation in these grand and gracious words: “BEHOLD!.... the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people.”

Shalom, JoeCanada.

First, let me just thank you for starting this thread. I really appreciate it because you are VERY CORRECT in these statements so far!

On 12/19/2022 at 2:09 PM, JoeCanada said:

In Rev 21:1-2, we see that the New Heaven and the New Earth is linked in time to the New Jerusalem’s descent:

“Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.”

When do these events occur?

Some believe that the events described above both occur one thousand years after God’s Kingdom is begun, at the end of the millennium. Those who hold to this view have interpreted all of Rev 20-22 to be a sequential chronology.

Okay, here, you're beginning to stray off-course. Let me just confirm that there is NO real division between Revelation 20 and 21 nor between 21 and 22. Chapter divisions (and verse divisions) are superficial and not inspired by God. In fact, they can be misleading! One must remember that these numbers and divisions are PURELY for reference! They help us to identify a location in Scripture quickly.

So, we should read about the Millennium (Greek: chilia etee = "a-thousand years"), the release of haSatan (Hebrew for "the Enemy") and the Great White Throne Judgment, and the new earth, its new sky, and the New Jerusalem, from Revelation 20:1 straight through to Revelation 22:6. There's no break in the strictest sense as there was in Genesis 2:3 and 2:4. Let's look at it without the chapter breaks and the verse breaks. I will try to break only at periods for a new line. I will add quotation marks and offset the quotes with color: green for narration, red for the words of our Lord Yeeshuwa` the Messiah of God, purple for any words of YHWH God, and blue for the words of anyone else. Now, I'm going to highlight references to time, as well:

Revelation 20:1-22:6 (KJV)

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.  
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death. 
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 
And I heard a great voice out of heaven (the throne) saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."
And he that sat upon the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new."
And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 
And he said unto me, "It is done.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, "Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife."
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; and had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: on the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 
And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. 
And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs.
The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. 
And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. 
And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. 
And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones.
The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. 
And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 
And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 
And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 
And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 
And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: and they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 
And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
And he said unto me, "These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done."

Revelation 22:7-21 are closing remarks as the book comes to a close.

On 12/19/2022 at 2:09 PM, JoeCanada said:

But…..

In the midst of Rev 20-22 are some puzzle pieces that just don’t fit the scenario.

Rev 21:27: “and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”

Well, if they have already been judged, then OF COURSE they won't be entering into the city! They are no longer there! He is merely stating that there will be NO unclean thing and NO person who has done such things that will come into the city!

On 12/19/2022 at 2:09 PM, JoeCanada said:

Rev 22:15: “ Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.”

Ah, but this is in the closing remarks of Revelation 22 and not in the chronology which ends at verse 6 (or 5).

If we expand on this a little, we find:

Revelation 22:14-15 (KJV)

14 Blessed are they that (currently) DO his commandments, that they MAY have right to the tree of life, and MAY enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without (left outside) are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

These left outside in verse 15 HAVE ALREADY BEEN CONSIGNED to the Lake of Fire, according to the Voice from the throne in 21:8.

On 12/19/2022 at 2:09 PM, JoeCanada said:

If the New Jerusalem comes down after the millennium, then these two verses don’t fit. The “Eternal State” is what comes after the millennium, when there will no longer be any death or sin.

Actually, these verses shouldn't give one any trouble who believe that the Millennium must come before the Eternal State. Hopefully, I've shown that above.

On 12/19/2022 at 2:09 PM, JoeCanada said:

Rev 20 gives us a general overview of the order of events and then Rev 21-22 backs up and gives detail. Such is the case in Gen 1-2:4. God gives the order of creation culminating in the creation of humans, then backs up and gives us detail of how Adam was formed first, then Eve (Gen 2:5-25) If John is following this pattern of overview then backing up to give detail, the New Jerusalem would be on earth at the beginning of the Millennium.

There's no evidence in the text that he is backing up to give detail, not like there was evidence in Genesis 2:3-4. In Genesis 2:3 Moses is clearly stopping with the Creation week, and then verse 4 begins the details.

Genesis 2:1-5 (KJV)

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, 5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

There's no such break in thought in Revelation 21 and 22.

On 12/19/2022 at 2:09 PM, JoeCanada said:

The term “new heaven and new earth”, Rev 21:1, does not mean the planet is destroyed and remade. Instead, God renovates the surface of the earth and the atmosphere……. Not new in kind, but new in quality.

I TOTALLY agree with you on this point.

On 12/19/2022 at 2:09 PM, JoeCanada said:

Hebrews 12:26-27:

“And His voice shook the earth then, but now He has promised, saying, “YET ONCE MORE I WILL SHAKE NOT ONLY THE EARTH, BUT ALSO THE HEAVEN

This expression, “Yet once more,” denotes the removing of those things which can be shaken, as of created things, so that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.”

This shaking would be referring to the last bowl judgment which is described as a “great earthquake, such as there had not been since man came to reign upon the earth, so great and earthquake was it, and so mighty”… Rev 16:18

The heavens and the earth will be shaken. There will be great destruction followed by great renovation. Then those things which cannot be shaken, meaning the New Jerusalem, will remain.

Sorry, but here I can't agree. The New Jerusalem will NOT experience this "shaking of the heavens (the skies) and the earth." This event doesn't happen even at the BEGINNING of the Millennium, let alone after the New Jerusalem has descended! Revelation 16:18 occurs even BEFORE Babylon falls in Revelation 18!

On 12/19/2022 at 2:09 PM, JoeCanada said:

“In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. “If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also“…. Jn 14:1-3

Where did Jesus say He was going? …… “to prepare a place for you”

Where did He say He would be? ..... “ In My Fathers house…… where I am there you may be also”

Where? …… “to prepare a place for you” …………………… “If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also”

The “many dwelling places” imply a city.

While I agree with you that Yeeshuwa` was referring to the New Jerusalem, or as the author of Hebrews called it, "the Jerusalem above the sky," it is NOT true that He would be taking us there! You've quoted these phrases out of order:

Note above in your quote of John 14:1-3 that He said, "I go to prepare a place for you (in my Father's house). If I go and prepare a place for you, I will COME AGAIN." This is His Second Coming! What does He do after He has arrived? "I will ... receive you to myself, that where I am (BACK ON EARTH AGAIN), there you may be also."

There's NOTHING in the promise that suggests that He takes us to His Father's house! We've just heard it so long interpreted this way that we naturally think that's what He's saying! But, He didn't SAY that!

On 12/19/2022 at 2:09 PM, JoeCanada said:

At the end of the Bible, Jesus says:

“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.”…………. Rev 22:12-14

Actually, I don't believe it is Yeeshuwa` who is doing the talking here. The messenger who poured out the last bowl of plagues, said, "See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God." And then, we read this:

Revelation 22:10-15 (KJV)

10 And he saith unto me, "Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

Then, we next read:

Revelation 22:16-21 (KJV)

16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, 'Come.' And let him that heareth say, 'Come.' And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

20 He which testifieth these things saith, "Surely I come quickly." Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

I believe that it is consistent with Scripture to recognize that YHWH God the Father says the words in verses 10-15. See Revelation 21:5-8; Revelation 1:8; and Revelation 11:17.

I'll confess, the rest of this is a spaghetti bowl to me. I'm going to have to sort this all out before I can respond, but one thing is for sure. The battle at Har-Megiddown (Tel Megiddo, Israel) (Greek: Ἁρ¦μαγεδών), which overlooks the Valley of Jezreel, is NOT what one sees and hears in movies! It is a REAL place in Israel where armies have fought before. The Valley of Jezreel below is a natural staging area for armies to regroup and attack one another. See Tel Megiddo Israel.

On 12/19/2022 at 2:09 PM, JoeCanada said:

Jesus refers to His coming and to the City in the same context. The redeemed will have the privilege of entering the gates of the city and the right to the Tree of Life.

Jesus says that when He returns He is bringing His reward (for us) with Him. Rev 22:12 above., also Isa 62:11. When He comes at the rapture, at the main harvest (read the parable of the wheat and tares Matt 14:24-30), He says He will meet us in the sky. He will then place us in the New Jerusalem…. In the sky. Look at  Isa 26:20:

“Come, my people, enter into your rooms (in My Fathers house are many dwelling places Jn 14:1-3)

And close your doors behind you;

Hide for a little while

Until indignation runs its course”. (until the Wrath of God ends)

How long does “indignation run its course”? ……. See Isa 34:8, Isa61:2 and Isa 63:4. God’s “indignation” or His “vengeance” lasts a year. The same length of time that the seven trumpets and seven bowls last. (a topic for another day)

Peter talks about the destruction of the heavens and the earth at the time of the Day of the Lord:

2 Peter 3:6-7 …. “through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.

But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.”

In the same section, Peter goes on to say:

2 Peter 3:10, 12-13 “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up…………..

looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.”

If the Day of the Lord brings destruction of the earth and the heavens, which is according to numerous Old and New Testament prophecies, then the renewing of the earth and heavens will take place shortly after.

Rev 21:1-2:… “Then I saw a new heaven and new earth, for the first heaven and earth passed away….

(2 Peter 3:10, 12-13 “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up)

“And I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband”

As mentioned above, God renovates the surface of the earth and the atmosphere. If we look at Rev 20:9, we see that the earth has already been renovated, and the beloved city, New Jerusalem, is already on the ground…… in the millennium.

Rev 20:9…….. “And they came up on the broad plain of the earth (renovated earth) and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city,(New Jerusalem) and fire came down from heaven and devoured them”

 

I’m just touching upon the numerous OT and NT Scriptures that speak of the New Jerusalem, the City of God, God’s Holy Mountain, the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God (Heb 11:10

I asked myself this question:

Does it make sense that God, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords,  The King of the universe, the great I AM….. would dwell among us after the battle of Armageddon…………… And have no place to live????

What kind of dwelling would He abide in while we all wait until the 1000 years are up and the New Jerusalem comes down? Will He couch serf? Live in a tent? A yurt maybe? A 1 bedroom? A 2 bedroom or more house?

I am 100% convinced that Scripture shows that the earth is destroyed and renovated at the last bowl, then the New Jerusalem comes to the earth with the Bride of Christ already in it…. waving with sheer delight to the remaining inhabitants on the earth.

If you are really interested in exploring this subject, then here is a list of Scriptures that will help:

Hebrews 11: 13-16….. 12:22-24

Matt 6:10

John 14:1-2, 3

Ezekiel 43:7… 20:40

Isaiah 60:1-4, 14 …. 52:1-2 …. 24:23 …. 57:13…. 2:2…. 56:6-7

Psalm  3:4 …. 15:1 …. 2:6 …. 48:1-2, 12-14 …. 87:1-3 …. 132:13-14

Zech 2:10-13 …. 14:10-11 … 37:26-27 …  40:2 …. 43:7 …. 45:1-7 … 48:35

Joel 3:20

Exodus 15:17-18

And there are many more!

 

[DeighAnn]

10 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

DeighAnn, please tell me where the saints, the redeemed, the Holy Ones, the bondservants of Christ..... where will they live on the earth, if they have to wait 1,000 years for the city, God's Holy Mountain, New Jerusalem to come down from heaven.

Ezekiel Chapter 40 or 44 to the end.  The nations come to to worship every year... 

But we are to be helping with the whole earth, to rule and reign over it with Christ.  ALL the kingdoms of the world will become His for the whole millennium.  So the saints will be living all over the earth sitting at the gates, teaching Gods Truth.  As you read you will see EVEN in the Sanctuary there are there are priests who will serve the Lord directly and those who will not, but will serve at the gates.

Been a really long time since I read it, so this is off the top of my head...so I would have to re read to discuss, but probably will now anyhow...





 

Edited December 21, 2022 by DeighAnn

[DeighAnn]

10 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Jesus is the King, the Almighty. And He will dwell in the most glorious abode ever envisioned by man.... New Jerusalem, the City.

And we will dwell securely in New Jerusalem on a newly renovated earth with new heavens with Him...... a city   with 12 gates and 12 angels guarding them. Why do they need guarding if there are only God's people living on earth?

He said that He is going to prepare a place for us in His Fathers' House...... that where He is, we will be also.

Are you saying that SATAN is bound in the NEW EARTH?  You are saying that God will dwell upon an earth WITH SIN? 

3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


How can that be when SATAN is DEATH?

4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

If there is no more death how can the GWTJ and the 2nd death take place at the end?

You do realize He is a consuming fire, right?  How exactly will someone 'not saved', filled with a lifetime of UNREPENTED sin make it all the way UP to the temple, if that were the case?  

 I will bow out of the conversation, if you start a new post, I promise I will not be a part of it.  Apologies.  


 

Edited December 21, 2022 by DeighAnn

[DeighAnn]

On 12/19/2022 at 12:09 PM, JoeCanada said:

Where did Jesus say He was going? …… “to prepare a place for you”

Where did He say He would be? ..... “ In My Fathers house…… where I am there you may be also”

Where? …… “to prepare a place for you” …………………… “If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also”

Last thing.  Jesus is in His Fathers house right now.  He said that is where He was going, many times.  THAT is where those who NEVER DIE go.  We are sown in corruption and raised in incorruption and FOLLOW Him to be where He is.  Then we come back with Him.  We sit upon the thrones for the 1000 years.  

Christ leaves heaven after all enemies made his foot stool.  

 

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


THIS END, lasts 1000 years, or a day to the Lord, which is but a 'watch' in the night?  (something like that)
 

24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father;

when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

How can any of this be truth if it takes place at the beginning?  

26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[JoeCanada]

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

On 12/19/2022 at 11:09 AM, JoeCanada said:

But…..

In the midst of Rev 20-22 are some puzzle pieces that just don’t fit the scenario.

Rev 21:27: “and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”

Well, if they have already been judged, then OF COURSE they won't be entering into the city! They are no longer there! He is merely stating that there will be NO unclean thing and NO person who has done such things that will come into the city!

Hi Roy,

There are a few questions:

Jesus said that He (and us too) would rule with a rod of Iron.....Correct?

You say, "they are no longer there! He is merely stating that there will be NO unclean thing and NO person who has done such things that will come into the city!"

Yes, of course. That's why there are angels guarding the gates of the city. They keep out the abomidable, the liars, the sorcerers, etc. And this can only be during the [1,000] year millennium.... where sin still abounds. Hence the need to rule with a rod of iron.

If there were only righteous people on the earth, then why the need for guarding the City gates?

When you say  "if they have already been judged"......well, that would only be one generation, the generation that was alive at the second coming. Everyone born after that would still be "unclean"..... and sinful!

If Jesus rules with a rod of iron, who is He going to rule?

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

On 12/19/2022 at 11:09 AM, JoeCanada said:

Hebrews 12:26-27:

“And His voice shook the earth then, but now He has promised, saying, “YET ONCE MORE I WILL SHAKE NOT ONLY THE EARTH, BUT ALSO THE HEAVEN

This expression, “Yet once more,” denotes the removing of those things which can be shaken, as of created things, so that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.”

This shaking would be referring to the last bowl judgment which is described as a “great earthquake, such as there had not been since man came to reign upon the earth, so great and earthquake was it, and so mighty”… Rev 16:18

The heavens and the earth will be shaken. There will be great destruction followed by great renovation. Then those things which cannot be shaken, meaning the New Jerusalem, will remain.

Sorry, but here I can't agree. The New Jerusalem will NOT experience this "shaking of the heavens (the skies) and the earth." This event doesn't happen even at the BEGINNING of the Millennium, let alone after the New Jerusalem has descended! Revelation 16:18 occurs even BEFORE Babylon falls in Revelation 18!

The great shaking happens at the seventh bowl, which technically is before the millennium. 

There is no great earthquake after the millennium.

 

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

On 12/19/2022 at 11:09 AM, JoeCanada said:

Rev 22:15: “ Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.”

Ah, but this is in the closing remarks of Revelation 22 and not in the chronology which ends at verse 6 (or 5).

If we expand on this a little, we find:

Revelation 22:14-15 (KJV)

14 Blessed are they that (currently) DO his commandments, that they MAY have right to the tree of life, and MAY enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without (left outside) are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

These left outside in verse 15 HAVE ALREADY BEEN CONSIGNED to the Lake of Fire, according to the Voice from the throne in

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

SHALL HAVE...... This is future. After the GWTJ. Then comes the second death.

[JoeCanada]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

12 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

DeighAnn, please tell me where the saints, the redeemed, the Holy Ones, the bondservants of Christ..... where will they live on the earth, if they have to wait 1,000 years for the city, God's Holy Mountain, New Jerusalem to come down from heaven.

Ezekiel Chapter 40 or 44 to the end.  The nations come to to worship every year... 

But we are to be helping with the whole earth, to rule and reign over it with Christ.  ALL the kingdoms of the world will become His for the whole millennium.  So the saints will be living all over the earth sitting at the gates, teaching Gods Truth.  As you read you will see EVEN in the Sanctuary there are there are priests who will serve the Lord directly and those who will not, but will serve at the gates.

Ezekiel talks about the City and the Holy Allotment, which is the immediate land around God's Holy Mountain, the City of NJ.

I'm not sure what you mean by "So the saints will be living all over the earth sitting at the gates"

What gates?

[JoeCanada]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

12 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Jesus is the King, the Almighty. And He will dwell in the most glorious abode ever envisioned by man.... New Jerusalem, the City.

And we will dwell securely in New Jerusalem on a newly renovated earth with new heavens with Him...... a city   with 12 gates and 12 angels guarding them. Why do they need guarding if there are only God's people living on earth?

He said that He is going to prepare a place for us in His Fathers' House...... that where He is, we will be also.

Are you saying that SATAN is bound in the NEW EARTH?  You are saying that God will dwell upon an earth WITH SIN? 

3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


How can that be when SATAN is DEATH?

4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

If there is no more death how can the GWTJ and the 2nd death take place at the end?

You do realize He is a consuming fire, right?  How exactly will someone 'not saved', filled with a lifetime of UNREPENTED sin make it all the way UP to the temple, if that were the case?  

You asked...."Are you saying that SATAN is bound in the NEW EARTH?  You are saying that God will dwell upon an earth WITH SIN? 

Yes.... Satan is bound for a thousand years in the 'pit". which I'm assuming is either on the earth or under the earth.

And yes also to "God will dwell upon an earth with SIN"?..... He will rule with a "rod of iron". If there are only righteous people on earth, there is no need to rule them with a rod of iron is there?

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

This is on God's mountain, the City of New Jerusalem. This is where we will dwell with the Lord. But outside the city are the dogs, sorcerers, immoral persons, murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. That's why Jesus will "rule with a rod of iron" 
 

You asked....."You do realize He is a consuming fire, right?  How exactly will someone 'not saved', filled with a lifetime of UNREPENTED sin make it all the way UP to the temple, if that were the case?"

The nations of the world will make yearly pilgrimages to NJ. To offer gifts and sacrifices.