Pre-Adamic World: Fact or Fiction

[Alive]

It is not the subject matter exactly, but as far as warfare goes for the redeemed of the Lord, we have this very clear scripture.

James 4:7 (NKJVS)   Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

The enemy has nothing on us who are in Christ and the enemy can do zero that is not specifically allowed by our God and that always for our godd.

Rom. 8:28 (NAS20S)   And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

These are relatively simple matters. The more subtle battle is regarding our own flesh and the battle in our minds as we are exposed to many ideas opposed to God.

[Mama Etna]

16 hours ago, Jayne said:

I don't believe in the Gap Theory.  The Pre-Adamic world, in my own beliefs according to what I read in the Bible, was only 5 days.

 

Same here.  I don't believe in a Gap Theory.  The created order existed only 5 days prior to the creation of Adam.

[DeighAnn]

29 minutes ago, Alive said:

Yup--I think it is really important that we understand that any authority the enemy has is granted by God and limited to precisely what God Himself intends.

The enemy is bound up by God's intensions.

When we speak of any warring between God and His Creations, its a mistake to think in the same way we do about warring between humans where the outcome is determined by which side has more strength, smarts and weapons. God's war with His enemies is not a battle in that sense. There is zero competition. God cannot lose a battle. He can unmake anything He made whenever He wants.

So, the warefare is simply a metaphor for our sakes.

This is important.

He may be the 'Adversary' but that doesn't change his status, the same for all of us, as 'a servant' of God ultimately for Gods will to be done.  

So often, when trying to get into the 'details' of Gods present plan of salvation and its specific parameters, someone will bring up the 'omnipresence' of God, like it changes what He is doing 'right now', in this age, and it drives me nuts.  Like teaching salvation to a church full of people who came to faith long ago.  

Gods Will 'that all come to repentance' is His Plan.  He wants our love/sacrifice to be REAL and so we are given FREE WILL.  That means there are many things that SURE, He could step in 'unmake' or not let happen but then in a short time, no more free will.  That is why 'the rest' we are to find is found in His words, because with that knowledge everything is understood and all the questions of WHY DOES GOD LET this happen are answered.  We become more like Christ in that we realize this is just the 'testing' grounds FOR THE JOY set before us.  There is a day of judgment coming in which those who choose 'death' must be free to do the things worthy of 'death' and that usually falls upon those who choose life. BUT GOD SAYS, don't worry about this death, I WILL MORE THAN MAKE IT UP TO YOU, but till then I NEED YOU TO SERVE MY PURPOSES.  I promise, it will be more than worth it.  

Fast forward to the GWTJ.  An evil soul, killed a nun who never did anything but follow the commands of the Lord.  Those without 'that rest' think HOW COULD GOD ALLOW THAT?  But the nun, standing there beside the Lord is a 'vessel of God' in the house of God and unto honor is the rest of her immortal life lived while GOD has NO PROBLEM sentencing the evil soul to death.  If HE HADN'T have allowed that to take place, the nun would not be a vessel of gold and HOW could God sentence the evil one to death?  

When we look at this life through the eyes of our eternal spiritual life, it all makes complete sense.  There are no questions as to WHY bad people get ahead because we know they get ahead for such a short time BUT THE repayment plan lasts forever.  Makes you want to STAND UP AND BE BEHEADED for the words of God doesn't it?  Well, I know those who have found 'HIS rest' see it that way anyhow.  I find it to be one of the best indicators of how much understanding has been given the souls around us today, to know Gods plan and Gods love and our duty.  I like 'investing' in my eternal future.  I like being a soldier.  I like living in the peace Christ left us and the rest that can be found merely by the following Gods commands.  I have no fear of the enemy and no fear of going through the testing required to 'see what I am made of' and definitely no fear of the 1st death.  Looking to be as close to 'the example set before me as I can', before the day I leave this world, this realm, this body and return to the One who gave me in the first place.   Cant wait to be received by Christ Jesus and give glory to God in heaven.  Can't wait to see what 'body' I will be given but really trying to end up a vessel of Gold.  

WELL, I am sure I don't need to be telling you these things.  Something you wrote touched a nerve somewhere apparently...



Ez 18

20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

21But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

22All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

23Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

24But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

25Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

26When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

27Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

28Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

29Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

30Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

32For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

 

IDKwhy sometimes, though sure it never hurts

 

 

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Or else you have a Holy God Who will not even look upon sin blessing and sanctifying it… it is also why I do not believe in the gap theory for you would have the same circumstance…

 

4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

My understanding thus far is they were existing on the forth day because of Scripture
Job 38:7 (KJV) [7] When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Satan did not fall till after this these verses below
Genesis 2:1-3 (KJV) [1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Or else you have a Holy God Who will not even look upon sin blessing and sanctifying it… it is also why I do not believe in the gap theory for you would have the same circumstance…

OK, when DID all this take place? 

And before you try to put it on SOME HUMAN of this age (as some have tried to do previously) remember 

14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

THAT hasn't applied to ANY MAN      EVER.  



11Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him,

Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


HOW was he 'filled with violence'?  What MULTITUDE of merchandise could he have had on the '4th' day?  

We also know he is called the DRAGON. So we know he RULED OVER a KINGDOM IN HEAVEN BY 

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

AND we know it was NOT ON EARTH BECAUSE of 

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.


We also know he will bring that same TYPE of 'system' into being by the beast Satan the Serpent King of Tyrus Prince of Tyrus (not our Rock) (demoted)

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
(gotta love the 'details' that 'rightly divide' for us)
 

[Vine Abider]

16 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Job 38: 1-10 plus. What is your belief about what is written?

Might also add to that Job 40 where God talks about Leviathan . . .

[DeighAnn]

39 minutes ago, Mama Etna said:

Same here.  I don't believe in a Gap Theory.  The created order existed only 5 days prior to the creation of Adam.

In the beginning God created the heavens. 

OK, we agree.  

But are these SHOUTING FOR JOY WATCHING THE EARTH BEING CREATED? 

If the heaven and earth were created before SOULS, then how are SOULS watching the earth being created?  

 

4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

[Vine Abider]

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

He is the ruler of this world according to Jesus.  So, it was his to offer.  Just like the CROWN given to the rider on the white horse SENT to overcome the world...It is Gods Plan and there are LAWS for that too I am sure.  

Still, it was all a lie, like everything that comes out of his mouth.

I would say he "was the ruler of this world." Before crucifixion Jesus said, "the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me." (John 14:30)  Then after His resurrection He said, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." (Matt 28:18)

So the devil may still hold sway over our world now, but Jesus is actually King.

[DeighAnn]

2 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Might also add to that Job 40 where God talks about Leviathan . . .

HOPeFULLY, there will come a time when we 'get past all those who oppose', by letting them put forth their opposition to leaving the milk and the reasons why milk is correct and there is no meat to be had here

because when that happens, we can TOGETHER seek out all the Scriptures that have been given us, bring them all together, for others who do 'see and seek' the deeper things of God.  

One thing we know is GODS WORDS make it impossible to not find truth. 

Those who oppose HIS TRUTHS are FORCED to disregard or make null and void or use 'what is meant' or add to or subtract from 'what is written'

while

Those who don't, find HIS TRUTHS because they never cause conflict, nor make anything null and void, NOTHING IS DISREGARED, nor is there any necessity to add or subtract ANYTHING EVER. 

WATCH both sides and SEE what is 'not addressed' by simply never giving an answer, no matter how many times the question is asked.  There are the many tactics for 'skirting the issue' but WHAT ISN'T ADDRESSED is just as telling as what is.  

 

[Vine Abider]

53 minutes ago, Mama Etna said:

Same here.  I don't believe in a Gap Theory.  The created order existed only 5 days prior to the creation of Adam.

To me, the thing one has to wonder about is all the remains of human-like creatures which get dug up.  They look similar to homo sapiens, but are not really us.  Evolution tries to claim these as proof of itself (which, of course, is a lie) . . .  but how did they get there?

And are geologists and paleontologists just deceived when they say all the things they're looking at in the ground were deposited there over eons of time?  I've read a few young earth books that try to show that these things occurred as a result of Noah's flood a few thousand years ago, but it seems quite a stretch to try and explain it all this way.

So it seems that if these things in the ground are not some kind of a grand deception (do we really think the devil is up to that task!?), then we must look to how it all got there.  An old Earth (aka Gap Theory/Ruin & Reconstruction) seems like a much better explanation to me.  God created beings on the earth after Genesis 1:1, and they got corrupted, so He had to judge them . . . which brings us to Genesis 1:2.

[DeighAnn]

14 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

I would say he "was the ruler of this world." Before crucifixion Jesus said, "the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me." (John 14:30)  Then after His resurrection He said, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." (Matt 28:18)

So the devil may still hold sway over our world now, but Jesus is actually King.

Know what I was just given the other day? 

30Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

31But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

For the next two chapters Jesus is talking and then He says

32Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:


Jn 18

1When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a garden, into the which he entered, and his disciples.

2And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus ofttimes resorted thither with his disciples.

 

So it was right after Jesus said that

1Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.

2And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.

3Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.


 I can't tell you how many people have tried to tell me 'for the prince of this world cometh', is when Satan and the angels are cast from the heaven'

to which I never had a reply, seems to be the most simple things.  Keeps a girl humble, that's for sure