Pre-Adamic World: Fact or Fiction

[Vine Abider]

3 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

 I can't tell you how many people have tried to tell me 'for the prince of this world cometh', is when Satan and the angels are cast from the heaven' to which I never had a reply, seems to be the most simple things.  Keeps a girl humble, that's for sure

When he gets cast from heaven is another interesting topic I think.  There's Jesus saying, "I saw Satan fall like lightening from heaven" in Luke 10:18; then there's when he gets cast down by the man child in Revelation 12.  Are they the same time?

[DeighAnn]

29 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

So the devil may still hold sway over our world now, but Jesus is actually King

Omnipresent vs Gods Plan.

If the kingdoms of the world had become Christs ALREADY, 

THIS is not the world we would be living in.  

GOD TELLS us what will be happening, and that is what is going to happen.  So rest assured, Christ has NOT RETURNED as KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.  

The kingdom was proclaimed, the KING was KILLED, the 'kingdom' didn't stay on earth without a king.  

YES, for those who are born again, our KING is our KING now BUT WE are residents of heaven, WE are NOT OF THIS WORLD.  

These are the things that are used to bring in confusion.  These are the things that make people say 'I just don't believe it' because the CHURCH puts forth so many 'traditions' that make NO SENSE.  

Hopefully we can use these forums to GET TO THE TRUTH as so 'kindle a fire' and STOP some of the 'falling away'.  But DEATH has got to mean DEATH, not eternal torment.  IF has got to mean IF, not OSAS.  Kept has got to mean KEPT, not 'flown away'.  Stand, endure to the end needs to mean 'to the end' not the middle.  Suffer tribulation has got to mean the same for everyone.  God not a respecter of persons CANT MEAN He treats one generation any different than the next.  Pick up your cross and not have suffered to death and seek to save a life will lose it HAVE TO REMAIN TRUTH.  But we sit and argue over what is clearly UN COMMON SENSE even knowing Satan does his best work in lies and deception.  I am so stopping right now 

[DeighAnn]

27 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

To me, the thing one has to wonder about is all the remains of human-like creatures which get dug up.  They look similar to homo sapiens, but are not really us.  Evolution tries to claim these as proof of itself (which, of course, is a lie) . . .  but how did they get there?

Aren't they just 'apes'?  Have they EVER found the remains of an entire man?  How can they find apes but not men?  and not just 'a bone' here and there they claim is of some stage of evolving.   

How is it can/have/do find every other animal complete, but not a complete man?  How is that possible?  Do they find 'stages' of animals or just extinct species? 

I went to the La Brea tar pits when I was young and I remember thinking HOW IS IT they found many many many 'animals' whole and complete, but NOT ONE PERSON.  It didn't seem possible.  Still doesn't.  If there were men walking around before, then their skeltons would around just the same and there would be no need to 'recreate' them from pieces.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

There was no Pre-Adam world unless your counting God and the Angels. There was only 5 days of earth before Adam, so not much history there. On another note,  the Dake study Bible is condemned by many pastors as full of false teachings in its study notes. There was no gap and that theory was " invented " in the 1800's so Christians wouldn't have to choose been God and Darwin.

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

OK, when DID all this take place?

Like I said in the post sometime after creation week and God’s sanctifying all He created… 
Genesis 2:1-3 (KJV)
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

as I see this verse below a begin of re-iteration of creation week
Genesis 2:4 (KJV) [4] ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
 

with the added complication of Lucifer’s fall (time not alluded to) … this represented in the prohibition of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Theologically speaking it is a must to understand satan began lie in his own being by proposing a thing that could never be:
Ezekiel 28:15-17 (KJV)
[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
[16] By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
[17] Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
 

this iniquity is described here
Isaiah 14:12-14 (KJV)
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

When you think of this ‘I will be like the most High.‘ How foolish sin makes us! How can that which began be like Him Who has never began and in fact all exist because of His eternal abilities… That is why God calls men fools who denies him…

[Vine Abider]

19 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

There was no Pre-Adam world unless your counting God and the Angels. There was only 5 days of earth before Adam, so not much history there. On another note,  the Dake study Bible is condemned by many pastors as full of false teachings in its study notes. There was no gap and that theory was " invented " in the 1800's so Christians wouldn't have to choose been God and Darwin.

Here's something from Wayne Grudem, Professor, Phoenix Seminary, which I think applies here:

Quote

The book of Genesis was not written to teach us the age of the earth, and so it can legitimately support either a young-earth or an old-earth view. Evidence from astronomy and various earth sciences, however, suggests that our universe and our earth are billions of years old. In the absence of a clear biblical stance on the issue, Christians should be willing to consider interpretations of Genesis 1 that fit with an old creation.

 

[HAZARD]

Scriptures show that originally, Long before Adam and Eve were created, God created the Earth and placed Lucifer as ruler of the society there.

 

God gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before "Iniquity was found in him. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

Before Adam Lucifer was the ruler of the Earth.

God is taking about Lucifer in these Scriptures. He was a perfectly created arc angel;

 

"Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

Lucifer wanted to control the universe and knock God off His throne. He over a long period of time convinced one third of God's angels to rebell with him and they rebelled against God and His universal rule, and invaded heaven to try and de-throne God Himself. (Ezek 28:17; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God concerning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrine is so simple for most men to understand, so they reject it. Especially many churches for some reason.

2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:

But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrin of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrin of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

Peter said these scoffers of the last days, the days we are in now, since Noah, would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system ruled by Lucifer on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again- the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the earth to its third perfect state; and that God was longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance. In Isa. 14:12-14 we have statements which cannot possibly of an earthly King. The passage is universally refering to the fall of Satan. We can quote it and note the facts.

"How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which dist weaken the nations! For thou art hast said in thine heart, I WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN, I WILL EXALT MY THRONE above the stars of God: I WILL sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I WILL ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE like the most High," Now note the following facts this passage proves of Satan:

1. That his name is Lucifer.

2. That he was a son of the morning, and therefore, no earthly man.

3. That he fell from Heaven. This could never be spoken of a man. Satan is the only person in all Scripture who is spoken of as falling from Heaven (Luke 10:18).

4. That he was cut down to the ground in his fall.

5. That he weakened the nations on Earth.

6. That he was exalted in his heart.

7. That he invaded hHeaven where God rules.

8. That he was a KING, for he had a Throne and SUBJECTS over whom he ruled.

9. That he wanted to exalt his kingdom above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven itself to dethrone God.

10. That he wanted to be worshiped in the congregation of God (Ps. 72:2; 82:1; Isa. 6:1).

11. That he led a rebellion against God but was defeated.

12. That his kingdom was on Earth, or he never could have tried to ascend above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven. When a kingdom is located under the clouds it has to be on the Earth.

13. That the ground, clouds, stars, and Heaven were already created.

14. That it had to be before Adam, for this was not the position of Lucifer when he was in Adam's Eden. Adam had dominion at that time. Lucifer had no kingdom on the Earth at the time of Adam and he has not had one since in the sense of a visible personal rule on Earth. He has only ruled through others since Adam's day; so this must refer to a time before Adam.

15. That he was not in Heaven when he rebelled, else he could not have desired to ascend into Heaven. He was under the stars, or he could not have desired to be exalted above the stars. He was under the clouds, or he could not have desired to ascend above them.

16. That God's throne is located in the north part of the universe (Psalms 75:6-7). Thus, this passage proves the location of Satan's original kingdom and the time of his fall. It was located on Earth, and his fall was before Adam, for he was all ready a fallen creature when he entered Adam' Eden.

In Coll. 1:15-18 we read of Christ creating thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers in Heaven and on Earth. They were located somewhere in the heavens and on the Earth. Lucifer was given a kingdom here on Earth, as proved by the passages cited above. His own subjects were earthly creatures of various kinds which were destroyed when the flood of Gen. 1:2 came upon the Earth. God created the Earth to be inhabited by earthly creatures (Isa. 45:18). They are called "nations" in the above passages. The demons who are now Satans emissaries could well be the spirits of the pre-Adamites. At any rate they are not part of the creation at the time of Adam. Thus Isaiah teaches the the Earth was inhabited before Adam and was ruled by Lucifer, whos' kingdom was overthrown when he rebelled.

There is so, so much more found in Scripture regarding this doctrin, many dozens of Scriptures support this. If this is false teaching, it amuses me that no one comes up with nothing more than Noah's flood, which occured much later, did not compleatly destroy the Earth, shake mountains, turn them upside down, turned off the stars and the sun so that there was no light. God had already created the Heavens, they were in existence as well as the Earth only their lights were withheld from shining on the Earth thus causing darkness Gen. 1:2. There was no darkness during Noah's flood? There were men and animals on the earth before Noah's flood, and Noah and his family and the animals survived the flood and were on the Eart after it?

That the Earth ONLY was (became) without form and void (Hebrew tohu vabobu, litterally wast and ruin or desolate and empty), as in Gen. 1:2. That there were mountains of Earth that were shaken and turned upside down by an earthquake so severe, which no doubt caused the remains of animals to be deposited in the very depths of the Earth beneath many layers of solid rock, such as are now been found. Noah's flood never buried animals hundreds of meters beneath solid rock.

Many other scriptures apart from those above can be presented to prove the doctrin of a pre-Adamite world.

To try and put this in a nutshell, God created the heavens first, then the Earth, all in the beginning or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). He caused the heavens and the Earth to be inhabited and gave Lucifer control of the Earth-kingdom, don't believe me, read, (Coll. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Lucifer ruled the earth for God for an unknown period before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and dethrone God. Not my idea, read (Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). He was defeated and his kingdom on Earth was destroyed by a flood and the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).

The Earth was turned upside down, a process which caused all the present formations of the Earth. The flood remained on the Earth for an unknown period of time, and then God in six days restored the Earth to a habitable state and made Adam and Eve and his creation to carry out the original plan of God concerning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer, now called Satan, and the spirit rebels caused man to fall, and they regained dominion of the earth through Adam's submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). They have been in control ever since and will be in control untill the second coming of Christ, who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium and make a New Heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth all righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5). Why does science show the earth to be many millions of years old and the Bible "(allegedly)" says it is only six thousand years old? So, as with everything missunderstood in Scripture men call what they do not understand a theory. Hence, the gap theory, or even a herecy. But there was a gap and its no theory. Scripture shows there was a creation "in the beginning" and then a re-creation.

If we take the time to carefully read all the Scriptures regarding this doctrin and not just skim over them retaining old knowledge in the mind, and the READ these below, which backs up what is said, and see for yourselves

You see, God spoke, and as soon as the materials were made, God created and formed with His hands the heavens, with all its light and darkness first, then the Earth, all in the beginning, or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). God created the heavens and the earth to be inhabited and He gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Col. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and de-throne (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God conserning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrin is too simple for most men to understand, so they reject it.

Now, 2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:
But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrin of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrin of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Just as God told Adam and Eve to do when He restored the Earth to a habitable state and He created them, Genesis 1:28, “And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth”

 

___________________________________________________________________________ 

 

Ezekiel 28:11-18).

The  earthly king of Tyre was Ithobalus 11, The supernatural king of Tyre was Lucifer, who is mostly referred to in this prophecy (V. 11-19), as proved by the many statements that could not possibly apply to any earthly man.

No earthly king of Tyre was ever in Eden, as was does this angel, nor does this Eden refer to Adam's Eden although Lucifer was in it also (Gen. 3; 2 Cor. 11:3). The Eden here was a garden in the earth when he ruled in perfection and sinlessness before he fell (V. 13).

Ezek. 28:14-16, Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

V. 15, Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
V. 16, By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

No angel was in any holy mountain of God when an earthly king of Tyre ruled, so the reference is to the eternal past when the cherub himself had a literal throne on earth on the holy mountain of God.

Here we have an insight into the position of Lucifer before his fall, and a revelation regarding the cause of his fall (V. 13-17). The term mountain of God occurs seven times (V. 14, 16; Ex. 3:1; 4:27; 18:5; 24:13; 1 Kings 19:8). The mountain of the Lord occurs six times(Gen. 22:14; Num. 10:33; Isa. 2:3; 30:29: Mic. 4:2; Zech. 8:3). All these Scriptures do not refer to the same mountain in the same place, as can be seen from the various passages.

 

The time of his iniquity was when he rebelled against God to exalt his throne and kingdom from earth to heaven (Isa. 14:12-14). The time of his corruption and sin was surely before the days of Adam for Lucifer was already a fallen creature at the time he came into Adams Eden (Gen. 2; 2 Cor. 11:3).

Heb. rekullah, traffic. It refers to Lucifers walking up and down slandering God to his own subjects on earth, and to God's subjects among the angels, until he had all his earthly subjects rebelling against the creator, as well as over one-third of the angels (Isa. 14:12-14; 2 Pet. 3:4-6; Rev. 12:4). Whatever it was, it is clear here that the behaviour resulted in violence; and Lucifer sinned and broke with God. This could never refer to an earthly king, as the ruler of Tyre, carrying on ordinary trade with the nations. It definitely concerns the traffic of a cherub, not a man. All trade between nations in the entire world could not cause an angel to sin as here in V.16.

Lucifer has already been humbled before kings for he was cast down to the ground before all the nations over whom he ruled previous to the time of Adam (Isa.14:12-14). He will again be brought down in the deepest humiliation before the kings of the earth whom he will lead with Antichrist in the battle of Armageddon (Rev. 12:7-12; 16:13-16; 19:11-21; 30:1-3). Then again at the end of the Millennium he will be brought down to Hell before all the kings and others who will spend eternity with him in the lake of FIRE (Matt. 25:41; Rev. 20:10).

God's Plan for Man, by Finus Jennings Dake.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Jayne said:

Created?  Sometime between.....Genesis 1:1 = "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" and Genesis 2:1 = "Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts."

Rebelled?  Sometime BEFORE the fall of Adam and Eve.  When was that?  I don't know.   Did Adam and  Eve stay innocent in the Garden for two weeks or twenty years?  Or longer? I don't know.

So you are proposing a gap in time?

[Guest]

9 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Lies have been in existence since Lucifer said he would be like God… we only have God’s Word to determine truth… but it has been in existence for all eternity…

It's interesting that most modern translations do not have Lucifer as a proper name. Only the KJV Bible Old Testament and a few others. The New Testament is different.

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Like I said in the post sometime after creation week and God’s sanctifying all He created… 
Genesis 2:1-3 (KJV)
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

as I see this verse below a begin of re-iteration of creation week
Genesis 2:4 (KJV) [4] ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
 

with the added complication of Lucifer’s fall (time not alluded to) … this represented in the prohibition of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Theologically speaking it is a must to understand satan began lie in his own being by proposing a thing that could never be:
Ezekiel 28:15-17 (KJV)
[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
[16] By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
[17] Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
 

this iniquity is described here
Isaiah 14:12-14 (KJV)
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
[14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

When you think of this ‘I will be like the most High.‘ How foolish sin makes us! How can that which began be like Him Who has never began and in fact all exist because of His eternal abilities… That is why God calls men fools who denies him…

SATAN began lie in his own being what could never be? missing an important part

12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him,

Thus saith the Lord GOD;

Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

These AREN'T Satans thoughts or words those are the words of the Lord GOD, not the Lord, not God, but the Lord GOD who says....

And tu have Satan ruling a kingdom sometime on earth when it was in heaven. Lots of supposition and mistakes against what is clearly written.  Looks like what is fable and what isn't is coming clear anyway.  I use Gods words and in return receive 'sometime' and 'I see'.  

GOD SAID I DIDN'T CREATE IT NULL AND VOID.   

YOU SAY HE DID. 

Who shall I believe? 




EITHER I believe the simple written word that doesn't have me guessing as to how an event clearly spoken of taking place in heaven could be taking place on earth.    IT clearly BECAME/was, as that way as the definition of the word.  Should we INSTEAD try to fit puzzle pieces where they clearly don't fit by adding a bit of 'explanation' rendering 'Hath God said' over 'WHAT is WRITTEN' for the purpose of???  Sorry I just don't get how when you have NO IDEA and are guessing all over the place you can make the statements you do.  

The responses have been conjectured and conclusions against what is written.  Unless you bring forth Scripture to NEGATE what is clearly written as to the WHERE AND WHEN of events I would prefer we just let it go with 'you don't believe it as I do'.  To debate any further with us clearly being on opposite ends of the spectrum never ends well, so let's agree to disagree.  Hopefully though you will quit speaking against it until it is possible to put forth a truth that renders it null and void in some way.     

 

2 Pet 3:5 Greek layout of words

It is concealed from indeed them this willingly, 
THAT THE HEAVENS EXISTED LONG AGO
and earth out of water and through water having been composed by THE OF GOD WORD through which the at that time world, with water having been deluged PERISHED

 622. apollumi ►
Strong's Concordance
apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Definition: to destroy, destroy utterly
Usage: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).

622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).

622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.

 

But now the heaven and the earth, by the SAME WORD having been stored up exist for fire being kept unto day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.