The Three Main Views of Hell

[Marilyn C]

On 1/2/2023 at 10:08 AM, Vine Abider said:

A few weeks ago someone here mentioned that they'd like to see a discussion about hell. Up until about a year ago, I hadn't given the topic much time, pretty much thinking that it was a binary thing - if one isn't a regenerated believer in Christ, they will burn forever consciously (aka lake of fire). But a brother who hosts a daily radio show, Steve Gregg, talked about the subject several times and I started to realize I really didn't know what I thought I knew about the subject. And also that views other than what I held (the traditional, eternal, conscious torment view) had some interesting arguments from scripture I wasn't so aware of . . . I realized I had just a superficial knowledge at best. 

So since this is an important topic, considering that "hell" may be the future destiny of unbelievers around me, I thought to get the book brother Steve wrote on the subject. It is a thoughtful and well researched book and is called, "All You wanted to Know about Hell - Three Christian views of God's final solution to the problem of sin." on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/All-Want-Know-About-Hell/dp/1401678300

The 3 views of Hell presented are:

1. Traditionalism - eternal conscious torment 

2. Annihilationism - soul is no more 

3. Universalism - all people eventually restored to God

Regarding these three views, Steve goes into church history quite a bit and painstakingly breaks down scripture for each of these view. His stated goal is just to present these views and not to draw his own conclusions. I found it a very fascinating read, to say the least - I would highly recommend it for anyone wanting to really dive into what the word says on this topic, and to also get an understanding of how these different views came about.

Personally, I lean toward something of a mix of these . . . (big reveal: mix of traditionalism & annihilationism)

Frankly, I still can't say I know for sure what hell is all about, and I'm not "dogmatically married" to any of these 3 views, so I just tell others, "Whatever it is, the bottom-line is this - IT'S NOT GOOD and therefore is something to avoid at all costs! And the only way to do that is salvation through Jesus Christ!"

FYI & Exhortation: We batted this topic around on another Christian forum for a good while . . . I hafta say some got their feathers ruffled a bit, when their favorite view of hell came under sharp scrutiny. I hope this won't get too "ornery" on here, and that we remember this is not a core essential of our Christian faith. Let's just have some family discussion, not get too intense, and see what light the Lord Spirit will shine on the subject! (aka - let the fun begin )

PS: Anyone interested in seeing Steve Gregg do a really good lecture on these three views, it can be found by going to Youtube and searching for: Hell - Three Christian Views Lecture by Steve Gregg

Hi VA,

Can count on you to have these interesting discussions.

So, my view is that eternal life is through Christ, and eternal damnation is without that life. Then we know that death and hades were cast into the lake of fire.

The `lake` is a set area, and `fire,` is related to the being, the soul/spirit that is disconnected from God`s nurturing, upholding presence. 

Thus, without a physical body these spirits are only conscience of themselves and having rejected God`s salvation they `burn` with regret, and are `tormented` by their own thoughts that are continually accusing.

Marilyn.

[Marathoner]

I was on my phone earlier, and I don't know how to copy and paste passage of scripture to my posts using that interface. I wanted to share what I believe to be a key passage from Matthew's Gospel regarding what the lake of fire symbolizes:

Destruction.

"A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. It is enough for the disciple that he may become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they insult the members of his household!

"So do not fear them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. What I tell you in the darkness, tell in the light; and what you hear whispered in your ear, proclaim on the housetops. And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are two sparrows not sold for an assarion? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But even the hairs of your head are all counted. So do not fear; you are more valuable than a great number of sparrows." (Matthew 1o:24-31 NASB)

I've never cared for the annihilationist moniker, for that fails to communicate the doctrine which our Lord imparted to us in the passage above. "Eternal Destruction" is certainly more accurate, for God is the only one capable of destroying both the body and soul in hell/Gehenna/the lake of fire. I believe all three are synonymous. 

Hades (Greek) is the grave, or Sheol (Hebrew) as expressed in the Hebrew Scriptures. So, death and the grave are cast into the lake of fire according to the judgment of the Lord, which completes the passing away of former things. We remember that the earth and heaven fled before the Lord seated upon the Great White Throne (Revelation 20:11), so the judgment of the dead and the disposition of the condemned follow in its wake. 

Eternal destruction is a relative term which measures death according to its place:

This body of flesh is destroyed when we perish on this earth. That's the first death, and all of us are subject to this. This is not eternal, for the dead shall be resurrected by the Lord at the end of all things to be judged according to their works. 

The apostle Paul informs us regarding our estate, meaning those whose lives are hidden in Jesus Christ. We pass from this earth to be with the Lord in fullness. As the Lord said, we shall never taste death, and the second death has no power over us. We will not be with the dead who are judged according to their works...

Not at all. We shall judge angels instead.  

Eternal destruction in the lake of fire is permanent and will never change. This is the second death. There is no other resurrection for the condemned.

Eternal life is permanent and is given by the Son of the living God. There will be no other resurrection for us, for we will never die. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Marathoner

[Waggles]

16 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

OK, I'll bite: "Many, many Christians will also not make it" . . . where?

Why would they not given the state of Christian faith and practices these days?

[Vine Abider]

3 minutes ago, Waggles said:

Why would they not given the state of Christian faith and practices these days?

Please elaborate as we're getting meaning lost in the reposting . . . where won't Christians go?

[Waggles]

15 hours ago, Roymond said:

The sense of αἰώνιον in these contexts is "until X is finished".

So while ζωὴν αἰώνιον doesn't really mean "eternal life" in the strict sense of the words, it does in the contextual use because the life of/in heaven never gets finished, so there is no end, while punishment can be completed and thus come to an end.

So the source you have in italics fails -- yes, its the same word, but the difference is that the full sense of the word rests with what is being described.

everlasting: Gr. aionios, +Matt_18:8, Some go to great length to argue that the punishment threatened here by our Lord Jesus Christ is not truly everlasting or never-ending. Those who argue this way do so in an effort to bolster their mistaken notion of justice and their mistaken view of the character of God (+**Gen_18:25 note).

Some quibble over the meaning of “eternal,” arguing from the fact that the word in Scripture is sometimes used in a finite sense (+Psa_24:9 note), and sometimes used in an infinite sense (Joh_6:54 note). From this fact they justify asserting a limited sense to the duration of everlasting punishment.

The answer to this objection is simple. Jesus spoke of two ages, this age, and the age to come. In the King James Version these terms are translated “this world” and “the world to come” in Mat_12:32.

When the word “eternal” is applied to things restricted to this age it is used in a finite or limited sense. When “eternal” has reference to things in “the age to come,” it is used in an infinite sense.

Clearly God is eternal and will continue to exist in the age to come. Just as eternal life and eternal punishment pertain to and exist in the age to come, so “eternal” in reference to them is used in the infinite, never-ending sense. +*Mat_18:8, Psa_52:5; Psa_92:7, **Isa_33:14; Isa_38:18, +*Dan_12:2, *Mar_3:29, 2Th_1:9, Heb_6:2, *Rev_14:11.

The Ultimate Cross-Reference Treasury by Jerome H. Smith © 2004

[Waggles]

8 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Please elaborate as we're getting meaning lost in the reposting . . . where won't Christians go?

A previous post implied that hell was for atheists - to which I replied that many many Christians will also not make it (that is salvation).

Given the woeful state of Christian faiths and practices these days it is obvious to the discerning that the broad avenue to perdition has many many more travelling on that road.

Edited January 14, 2023 by Waggles

[Vine Abider]

1 minute ago, Waggles said:

A previous post implied that hell was for atheists - to which I replied that many many Christians will also not make it (that is salvation).

Given the woeful state of Christian faiths and practices these days it is obvious to the discerning that the broad avenue to perdition has many many more travelling on that road.

Are you trying to say that some regenerated believers will go to hell?

[OneLight]

23 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Are you trying to say that some regenerated believers will go to hell?

From the outside of this conversation, looking in, I see those "Christians" being spoken of that will miss the mark were Christian by name only, not by being in Him and He in them.  Not everyone who calls themselves a Christian really is following Him, but a Jesus they created in their minds through their personal theology.  Why do you think scripture tells us that He will judge the hearts of us all, not our confessions?

[Vine Abider]

45 minutes ago, OneLight said:

From the outside of this conversation, looking in, I see those "Christians" being spoken of that will miss the mark were Christian by name only, not by being in Him and He in them.  Not everyone who calls themselves a Christian really is following Him, but a Jesus they created in their minds through their personal theology.  Why do you think scripture tells us that He will judge the hearts of us all, not our confessions?

Of course!  I'm just trying to ascertain what @Waggles was saying - was that it?

[OneLight]

3 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Of course!  I'm just trying to ascertain what @Waggles was saying - was that it?

I surely can't speak for Waggles, but that was my thoughts as I read the conversation.  Now I'm curious to see if I was on the right train of thought!